Bears game 14: Monday Dec 20, at MIN (TCF)

[UMFan83]

but the bears haven't spent an exhorbitant amount more than other teams.

 

and it shouldn't have to be said that watching your team play well and make playoff appearances is less disappointing than not watching them do these things. if that's what the analogy is about, it's [expletive] mongoloid.

 

They traded for a franchise QB and signed an elite pass rusher, something most teams can't ever do, let alone in back to back seasons. They spent more than most this season and without it likely would have remained on that mediocre path.

 

that's not the argument, the bears are barely in the top 10 in payroll. what the [expletive] are you going off about? so they got lucky and were able to trade for cutler and give enough to get peppers, it's not like they are top 3 in salary and at the bottom in terms of performance.

 

the analogy was asinine, regardless of the bizarre places you've taken us trying to defend it. and it wasn't even yours in the first place. fall on your own sword next time.

 

The analogy was perfectly reasonable. I do not understand your insistence on suddenly pretending this organization has been outstanding, coming off weeks and weeks of your pathetic handwring it makes even less sense.

 

okay, so the analogy is perfectly reasonable except the bears aren't even close to spending the most money in the nfc and have won the division with doing it?

 

you got me, it's perfectly reasonable.

 

Just wanted to say that the Bears have had the highest payroll in the NFC North 3 of the last 4 years. The only year they didn't was the year they went 9-7 and just missed the playoffs.

[Magnetic Curses]

we're talking about the angelo/smith era, not the angelo era. and they've been a top quarter of the league team in that era. expecting them to be the patriots is childlike.

 

It may be unrealistic but I don't see what is childlike about it. That being said, I'm not expecting them to be Patriots like. There are plenty of other teams they don't measure up to either. But again, that isn't the point. I'm just not sure why you are suddenly fellating this often, and recently, disappointing organization. I am happy with where they are at and enjoying the hell out of this season. It's been good. You aren't making any sense though so I'm not sure there is any point continuing whatever discussion you are trying to have.

 

my original comment was that criticisms aside, the smith/angelo era has been good and we've had success. i've enjoyed watching them, as you have, admittedly. it beats the hell out of expecting to be bad and having no hope year after year. i've had expectations going into every season since 2004, and that feels good for football in chicago to be pertinent, even if the results are sometimes disappointing.

 

the bears have done this without giving out terrible un-jettisonable contracts to marginal players and standing on a pile of dead money.

 

you're arguing that it's been okay. i disagree.

[Magnetic Curses]

Just wanted to say that the Bears have had the highest payroll in the NFC North 3 of the last 4 years. The only year they didn't was the year they went 9-7 and just missed the playoffs.

 

except the vikings outspent them by more than 10 mil this year and by 25 mil in 2007.

 

so, 1 out of 4 years ain't bad.

[UMFan83]

Just wanted to say that the Bears have had the highest payroll in the NFC North 3 of the last 4 years. The only year they didn't was the year they went 9-7 and just missed the playoffs.

 

except the vikings outspent them by more than 10 mil this year and by 25 mil in 2007.

 

so, 1 out of 4 years ain't bad.

 

Whoops, I thought we had the most this year, I actually didnt look up those number and assumed based on how you guys were talking about our spending spree last winter. We spent more than them in 09 (120-99) and 07 (104-92). In 08 they outspent us 133-120. I don't know where you got 1 out of 4 from.

[Magnetic Curses]

Just wanted to say that the Bears have had the highest payroll in the NFC North 3 of the last 4 years. The only year they didn't was the year they went 9-7 and just missed the playoffs.

 

except the vikings outspent them by more than 10 mil this year and by 25 mil in 2007.

 

so, 1 out of 4 years ain't bad.

 

Whoops, I thought we had the most this year, I actually didnt look up those number and assumed based on how you guys were talking about our spending spree last winter. We spent more than them in 09 (120-99) and 07 (104-92). In 08 they outspent us 133-120. I don't know where you got 1 out of 4 from.

 

i think you have 07 backwards or something.

 

http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=721071&mc=1&forum_id=1

 

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=178103&page=2

 

we have had the most salary in 09 only.

 

even if you go by what USAToday says, the lions outspent us in 07.

 

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2007

Edited December 21, 2010 by Stannis

[Flames24Rulz]

Sulley, I agree with you re: Matthews but he gets all the publicity. I think Raji and Woodson are better players than Matthews.

 

Wilson, Briggs has been better than Urlacher this season. He was sorely missed against Seattle. Peppers is clearly the best player on the Bears defense.

 

raji has been a beast this year, and he's the kind of guy that allows matthews to be effective.

 

i don't think any one-dimensional pass-rushing 3-4 linebacker should win dpoy, ever. the 3-4 may not be a gimmick but that position most certainly is. he's not really doing much more than what kgb did in his prime, he's a nice little pass-rusher and that's about his usefulness. he gets bulldozed against the run and isn't good in coverage.

 

He's certainly not a great run defender but I think he's a pretty good coverage LB. His numbers have taken a hit recently because of the nagging injury to Jenkins. He's been facing double teams non-stop for probably the last month and a half or so.

 

I do agree that Raji and Woodson are probably better overall players, though. Raji's really good.

[UMFan83]

Just wanted to say that the Bears have had the highest payroll in the NFC North 3 of the last 4 years. The only year they didn't was the year they went 9-7 and just missed the playoffs.

 

except the vikings outspent them by more than 10 mil this year and by 25 mil in 2007.

 

so, 1 out of 4 years ain't bad.

 

Whoops, I thought we had the most this year, I actually didnt look up those number and assumed based on how you guys were talking about our spending spree last winter. We spent more than them in 09 (120-99) and 07 (104-92). In 08 they outspent us 133-120. I don't know where you got 1 out of 4 from.

 

i think you have 07 backwards or something.

 

http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=721071&mc=1&forum_id=1

 

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=178103&page=2

 

we have had the most salary in 09 only.

 

I'm using USA today's salary database which is supposedly accurate, but who knows at this point

 

Bears http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamresults.aspx?team=5

 

Vikings http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamresults.aspx?team=18

 

Packers http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamresults.aspx?team=12

 

Edit: Didn't even both to check the Lions, they don't matter. Upon that, I retract my statement. My point was that you were saying that were arent even in the top 10 in salary and have won 3 divisions, so I was trying to point out how we compare in the division, which matters more than conference if we are talking about division titles.

[Mark Priors Calves]

Brad Biggs is tweeting that EJ Henderson ran onto the field from the sidelines during Hester's punt return td. Bizarre.

 

Here's the video:

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/09000d5d81d1378d/Bears-Hester-takes-it-to-the-house

 

I can't see if its Henderson or not, but a Viking definitely runs out of the field and start chasing him at about the 30 yard line.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Mark Prior's Calves

[Wilson A2000]

Brad Biggs is tweeting that EJ Henderson ran onto the field from the sidelines during Hester's punt return td. Bizarre.

 

For what reason?

[minnesotacubsfan]

probably to catch a glimpse of history

[Butterscup1679666578]

Biggs corrected himself. Henderson was blocked off and came back on to chase Hester after he was already gone.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

It was Erin Henderson, #50.

[Guest]

Biggs corrected himself. Henderson was blocked off and came back on to chase Hester after he was already gone.

 

How was that not his first thought?

[UMFan83]

Biggs corrected himself. Henderson was blocked off and came back on to chase Hester after he was already gone.

 

How was that not his first thought?

 

I know lol, either he was blocked out of bounds and ran back in, or he decided to put his helmet on and run out to celebrate with Hester.

 

It did look like he came from nowhere though, kinda funny.

[davell]

I think of the Bears as an average ran organization. I think Angelo and Smith are basically average or slightly above. I don't think the McCaskey's do anything above what's necessary for the most part. Peppers signing excluded, since the trade for Cutler was before Jay was making lots of money cap-wise.

 

I don't want a Jerry Jones or a Daniel Snyder as an owner, as they make splashes just to make splashes, with no apparent feel as to how to fit the pieces together in order for them to work. There are a group of franchises that I put clear ahead of the Bears, like the Pats, Steelers, and Colts and a few others like the Eagles and Saints that are also run better as well, but there are quite a few teams that are definitely run worse than the Bears are too.

 

I don't want to see Lovie and Angelo be given extensions at this stage, but it wouldn't shock me to see that happen either. Because we compete ENOUGH to make most fans happy for the most part.

[UMFan83]

Weekly ESPN Power Ranking Rant:

 

So the Bears beat the Eagles a few weeks back and move from 12th to 7th. Awesome. Finally.

 

The next week they post an uninspiring victory over the Lions. They drop to 8th. OK that's fine.

 

Next they play at home against NE and get throttled by 29 points, a score that actually makes the game look closer than it was. So where do the Bears go?.....umm still 8th.

 

Finally this week the Bears come out on MNF and face a Vikings team that probably gave up on the season. Even still, on a dangerous perfectly safe surface, the Bears throttle the Vikings 40-14. And ESPN's braintrust determines that we are the....8th best team.

 

I guess its good that they aren't being overly reactionary on a week to week basis.

[UMFan83]

I think of the Bears as an average ran organization. I think Angelo and Smith are basically average or slightly above. I don't think the McCaskey's do anything above what's necessary for the most part. Peppers signing excluded, since the trade for Cutler was before Jay was making lots of money cap-wise.

 

I don't want a Jerry Jones or a Daniel Snyder as an owner, as they make splashes just to make splashes, with no apparent feel as to how to fit the pieces together in order for them to work. There are a group of franchises that I put clear ahead of the Bears, like the Pats, Steelers, and Colts and a few others like the Eagles and Saints that are also run better as well, but there are quite a few teams that are definitely run worse than the Bears are too.

 

I don't want to see Lovie and Angelo be given extensions at this stage, but it wouldn't shock me to see that happen either. Because we compete ENOUGH to make most fans happy for the most part.

 

Ideally, I'd want the Bears run exactly like Angelo wants it to be, or very close. I have no problem with the approach. I believe the only way to build and maintain a consistently good club in this age of parity is to draft well every year. I love how the Pats start with a draft pick, trade it for 2 picks, then use one of those picks to trade for 2 picks, and then group 3 of those picks for 2 better picks or whatever. They end up with like 11 picks every draft, most in the 3-6th rounds. Those are the rounds where you earn your pay as a GM. Get em cheap, get em on the field and immediately start to restock.

[Wilson A2000]

Ideally, I'd want the Bears run exactly like Angelo wants it to be, or very close. I have no problem with the approach. I believe the only way to build and maintain a consistently good club in this age of parity is to draft well every year. I love how the Pats start with a draft pick, trade it for 2 picks, then use one of those picks to trade for 2 picks, and then group 3 of those picks for 2 better picks or whatever. They end up with like 11 picks every draft, most in the 3-6th rounds. Those are the rounds where you earn your pay as a GM. Get em cheap, get em on the field and immediately start to restock.

 

You can do that when you have an all-time great QB. Angelo drafts well every year, outside of his number one picks. And you will have a hard time being a great team and a well-run organization year after year if you fail on your number ones.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Angelo is HORRIBLE at drafting

[jersey cubs fan]

Angelo is HORRIBLE at drafting

 

He's very hit or miss. He's had some gems, and some massive early misses. I'm still happy as hell he traded for Cutler. But I'd really love to see him stockpile mid-round picks and concentrate more on the offensive line. This offense could become elite if they could block.

[davell]

While I agree completely about taking the Pats strategy and using it, I'm not sure Angelo would be the best guy to employ it either. I know he's had some hits outside the 1st round, but my guess is if his draft record is compared to other GM's, he'd be either right in the middle or possibly even a tad below that.

[Magnetic Curses]

Just wanted to say that the Bears have had the highest payroll in the NFC North 3 of the last 4 years. The only year they didn't was the year they went 9-7 and just missed the playoffs.

 

except the vikings outspent them by more than 10 mil this year and by 25 mil in 2007.

 

so, 1 out of 4 years ain't bad.

 

Whoops, I thought we had the most this year, I actually didnt look up those number and assumed based on how you guys were talking about our spending spree last winter. We spent more than them in 09 (120-99) and 07 (104-92). In 08 they outspent us 133-120. I don't know where you got 1 out of 4 from.

 

i think you have 07 backwards or something.

 

http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=721071&mc=1&forum_id=1

 

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=178103&page=2

 

we have had the most salary in 09 only.

 

I'm using USA today's salary database which is supposedly accurate, but who knows at this point

 

Bears http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamresults.aspx?team=5

 

Vikings http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamresults.aspx?team=18

 

Packers http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamresults.aspx?team=12

 

Edit: Didn't even both to check the Lions, they don't matter. Upon that, I retract my statement. My point was that you were saying that were arent even in the top 10 in salary and have won 3 divisions, so I was trying to point out how we compare in the division, which matters more than conference if we are talking about division titles.

 

that's fine, i pointed out in several separate sources that we've had the top salary exactly once in the last 4 years, which makes things pretty even.

 

for the record, i said that we are #10 in salary. we still have to compete with other nfl teams in the actual games, we are not competing in a north vaccuum.

[UMFan83]

Angelo is HORRIBLE at drafting

 

Agreed. For the most part. Every once in a while he finds a hidden gem but you know what they say about the blind squirrel.

 

In the last 4 drafts, Angelo has drafted 4 offensive starters (Knox 6th-09, Forte 2nd-08, Webb 7th-10, and Williams 1st-08), and 0 defensive starters. That's not a great hit rate, considering Webb is only starting by default, Williams has been an inconsistent player starting to hear the bust word thrown around. Knox went to a pro bowl (as a returner) and has promise so that's fantastic for a 6th round pick, and Forte is a solid RB which is what you should get for an early 2nd round pick.

 

The defense was built this way:

 

Pre-Angelo Draft: Urlacher

Pre-07 Angelo Draft: Briggs, Tillman, Manning, Harris (re-acquired via FA)

Free Agency: Jennings, Toeaina, Tinoisamoa, Idonije, Peppers, Adams

[jersey cubs fan]

While I agree completely about taking the Pats strategy and using it, I'm not sure Angelo would be the best guy to employ it either. I know he's had some hits outside the 1st round, but my guess is if his draft record is compared to other GM's, he'd be either right in the middle or possibly even a tad below that.

 

His mid round picks have to compare well with most everybody. 2007 was a disaster. But most years provide gems late.

[UMFan83]

except the vikings outspent them by more than 10 mil this year and by 25 mil in 2007.

 

so, 1 out of 4 years ain't bad.

 

Whoops, I thought we had the most this year, I actually didnt look up those number and assumed based on how you guys were talking about our spending spree last winter. We spent more than them in 09 (120-99) and 07 (104-92). In 08 they outspent us 133-120. I don't know where you got 1 out of 4 from.

 

i think you have 07 backwards or something.

 

http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=721071&mc=1&forum_id=1

 

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=178103&page=2

 

we have had the most salary in 09 only.

 

I'm using USA today's salary database which is supposedly accurate, but who knows at this point

 

Bears http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamresults.aspx?team=5

 

Vikings http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamresults.aspx?team=18

 

Packers http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamresults.aspx?team=12

 

Edit: Didn't even both to check the Lions, they don't matter. Upon that, I retract my statement. My point was that you were saying that were arent even in the top 10 in salary and have won 3 divisions, so I was trying to point out how we compare in the division, which matters more than conference if we are talking about division titles.

 

that's fine, i pointed out in several separate sources that we've had the top salary exactly once in the last 4 years, which makes things pretty even.

 

for the record, i said that we are #10 in salary. we still have to compete with other nfl teams in the actual games, we are not competing in a north vaccuum.

 

We're competing for division titles with the other teams in our division. Each divisional team plays 14 of their 16 games against the same opponents. I am not sure how comparing division spending is less relevant than conference spending.

 

The whole argument is stupid because its pretty clear spending doesnt have any relation to wins. That was whatever you guys were talking about.