Cubs Acquire Garza for Archer, Lee, Guyer, Chirinos & Fuld

[Dallas Green]

It's not a slam dunk..but I would do it

[erik316wttn]

What is sad is that Garza would have had the best WHIP of any Cubs starter last year, and he faced the Yankees and Red Sox for about 1/3 of his games. And people are still talking about him like he is a bum or equivalent to Wells. Throw Wells in the NL East and lets see how his numbers fare.

 

Pretty much this.

 

And I think you meant AL East.

[BigSlick]

ugh, as much as i'd like to see the cubs get a player of Matt Garza's caliber i really dunno if i like the direction this off-season is going

 

if you are going to tank the season, let the young kids grow and build your farm system then do it. Don't try to appease both sides and sorta kinda try to win. The Pena move is consistent with either honestly. tread water, shed payroll next year, and build for the future.

 

but i dont like this one-foot-in-one-foot-out kind of moves like this. whats the point of this?

 

are we going to scrap for 85 wins and hope to take down a mediocre nl central? if you want to win, then go out there and spend some [expletive] money and then really show you're going to win but these kind of off-season plans are guaranteed to land you in mediocrity for another decade

[rocket]

eh, i think the direction is fine. if we catch a few breaks, this team could win 88 or so games and possibly take the division. if things don't look good come august, then pena (and possibly garza too) are very tradeable. the less long term deals hendry hands out this season, the better.

[Cubswin11]

eh, i think the direction is fine. if we catch a few breaks, this team could win 88 or so games and possibly take the division. if things don't look good come august, then pena (and possibly garza too) are very tradeable. the less long term deals hendry hands out this season, the better.

I agree, Dempster, Baker, Byrd, Fukudome, Gorzo/Wells, Pena, whatever SP we add (Webb,

Garza, etc.) are all guys who could be very appealing to teams around the deadline if we are out of it and we could get some good prospects back assuming all those guys are having at least career average years.

[SouthSideRyan]

What is it about acquiring a guy 3 years away from free agency that says you're not building for the future?

[davearm2]

ugh, as much as i'd like to see the cubs get a player of Matt Garza's caliber i really dunno if i like the direction this off-season is going

 

if you are going to tank the season, let the young kids grow and build your farm system then do it. Don't try to appease both sides and sorta kinda try to win. The Pena move is consistent with either honestly. tread water, shed payroll next year, and build for the future.

 

but i dont like this one-foot-in-one-foot-out kind of moves like this. whats the point of this?

 

are we going to scrap for 85 wins and hope to take down a mediocre nl central? if you want to win, then go out there and spend some [expletive] money and then really show you're going to win but these kind of off-season plans are guaranteed to land you in mediocrity for another decade

There's absolutely no evidence that the Cubs "are going to tank the season", and the notion that this is being contemplated internally is just absurd.

 

What you describe as "one-foot-in-one-foot-out kind of moves" is what is otherwise known as operating within a budget. And frankly this mode of operation is more encouraging than the one that puts another Soriano sized contract on the books.

[Guest]

ugh, as much as i'd like to see the cubs get a player of Matt Garza's caliber i really dunno if i like the direction this off-season is going

 

if you are going to tank the season, let the young kids grow and build your farm system then do it. Don't try to appease both sides and sorta kinda try to win. The Pena move is consistent with either honestly. tread water, shed payroll next year, and build for the future.

 

but i dont like this one-foot-in-one-foot-out kind of moves like this. whats the point of this?

 

are we going to scrap for 85 wins and hope to take down a mediocre nl central? if you want to win, then go out there and spend some [expletive] money and then really show you're going to win but these kind of off-season plans are guaranteed to land you in mediocrity for another decade

There's absolutely no evidence that the Cubs "are going to tank the season", and the notion that this is being contemplated internally is just absurd.

 

What you describe as "one-foot-in-one-foot-out kind of moves" is what is otherwise known as operating within a budget. And frankly this mode of operation is more encouraging than the one that puts another Soriano sized contract on the books.

 

I would agree with this. However, I'm not on board with them fixing the problems with the past with the same guy who created them.

[ThePenguin11]

Isn't Lee supposed to be some sort of uber-prospect, or am I mistaken?

 

I'd say his upside is that of a .350-.360 OBP, 10ish homers and 40-50 steals, while playing a GG caliber SS.

 

That sounds a lot cheaper than trading for Jose Reyes.

 

Reyes is a sure thing. HJ may or may not reach that ceiling. And if he does, it'll be 2-3 more years (at least).

 

It's a long way away from knowin what HJLee is going to be. I don't know much about him, but gold glove caliber shortstop would seem a long, long way off from a guy who's got 61 errors in 190 games. I hope the guy is good but I'd wait a few years before I even set an expectation level.

[PrimeTime]

Latest on Roto

 

A source told AOL Fanhouse's Ed Price on Friday that he is "certain" Rays right-hander Matt Garza will be traded this winter, probably to the Cubs.

The Rays were unimpressed by the offers they fielded for Garza during the Winter Meetings and there's been no indication that proposals have been sweetened. But the Cubs could sure use a guy like Garza. He finished with a 15-10 record, 3.91 ERA and 1.25 WHIP over 204 2/3 innings this year in the AL East. The National League Central is quite a bit easier on pitchers.

Source: Ed Price on Twitter

[third eye]

Latest on Roto

 

A source told AOL Fanhouse's Ed Price on Friday that he is "certain" Rays right-hander Matt Garza will be traded this winter, probably to the Cubs.

The Rays were unimpressed by the offers they fielded for Garza during the Winter Meetings and there's been no indication that proposals have been sweetened. But the Cubs could sure use a guy like Garza. He finished with a 15-10 record, 3.91 ERA and 1.25 WHIP over 204 2/3 innings this year in the AL East. The National League Central is quite a bit easier on pitchers.

Source: Ed Price on Twitter

 

Huh, he doesn't indicate why he thinks it would be a "certainty". Just because the Cubs could use him in the Central doesnt mean that the Rays have to trade him if they don't see good value. Not sure how Price came to that conclusion.

[jersey cubs fan]

Latest on Roto

 

A source told AOL Fanhouse's Ed Price on Friday that he is "certain" Rays right-hander Matt Garza will be traded this winter, probably to the Cubs.

The Rays were unimpressed by the offers they fielded for Garza during the Winter Meetings and there's been no indication that proposals have been sweetened. But the Cubs could sure use a guy like Garza. He finished with a 15-10 record, 3.91 ERA and 1.25 WHIP over 204 2/3 innings this year in the AL East. The National League Central is quite a bit easier on pitchers.

Source: Ed Price on Twitter

 

Huh, he doesn't indicate why he thinks it would be a "certainty". Just because the Cubs could use him in the Central doesnt mean that the Rays have to trade him if they don't see good value. Not sure how Price came to that conclusion.

 

Huh? A source told Ed Price they were certain he would be traded. They aren't going to explain why they feel that way.

[third eye]

Latest on Roto

 

A source told AOL Fanhouse's Ed Price on Friday that he is "certain" Rays right-hander Matt Garza will be traded this winter, probably to the Cubs.

The Rays were unimpressed by the offers they fielded for Garza during the Winter Meetings and there's been no indication that proposals have been sweetened. But the Cubs could sure use a guy like Garza. He finished with a 15-10 record, 3.91 ERA and 1.25 WHIP over 204 2/3 innings this year in the AL East. The National League Central is quite a bit easier on pitchers.

Source: Ed Price on Twitter

 

Huh, he doesn't indicate why he thinks it would be a "certainty". Just because the Cubs could use him in the Central doesnt mean that the Rays have to trade him if they don't see good value. Not sure how Price came to that conclusion.

 

Huh? A source told Ed Price they were certain he would be traded. They aren't going to explain why they feel that way.

 

Ah, read that wrong. Stupid illiteracy. :blush: . Still, if none of the offers were sweetened, why would the Rays be so motivated to move him? They've already trimmed payroll significantly for next year. They could get a better return from motivated buyers at the deadline since he'd still be under team control for another 2+ years.

[dew1679666265]

It's a long way away from knowin what HJLee is going to be. I don't know much about him, but gold glove caliber shortstop would seem a long, long way off from a guy who's got 61 errors in 190 games. I hope the guy is good but I'd wait a few years before I even set an expectation level.

 

That was my point with the post. From everything I've heard and read, HJ Lee has the skillset and the tools to be a gold glove caliber SS. That doesn't mean he'll reach that level, though. Errors really don't mean much in the minors, though. Castro had a ton of them in the minors, but also has great defensive upside as well. There are a ton of contributing factors in the minors (youth, bad fields, etc) that won't be there when the player gets to the majors.

[KingCubsFan]

Latest on Roto

 

A source told AOL Fanhouse's Ed Price on Friday that he is "certain" Rays right-hander Matt Garza will be traded this winter, probably to the Cubs.

The Rays were unimpressed by the offers they fielded for Garza during the Winter Meetings and there's been no indication that proposals have been sweetened. But the Cubs could sure use a guy like Garza. He finished with a 15-10 record, 3.91 ERA and 1.25 WHIP over 204 2/3 innings this year in the AL East. The National League Central is quite a bit easier on pitchers.

Source: Ed Price on Twitter

 

Huh, he doesn't indicate why he thinks it would be a "certainty". Just because the Cubs could use him in the Central doesnt mean that the Rays have to trade him if they don't see good value. Not sure how Price came to that conclusion.

 

Huh? A source told Ed Price they were certain he would be traded. They aren't going to explain why they feel that way.

 

Ah, read that wrong. Stupid illiteracy. :blush: . Still, if none of the offers were sweetened, why would the Rays be so motivated to move him? They've already trimmed payroll significantly for next year. They could get a better return from motivated buyers at the deadline since he'd still be under team control for another 2+ years.

They're doing this to make room for Hellickson. At the deadline, he'll be making more money. Also, a contending team would be more reluctant to trade a vital piece of their team in the middle of the playoff race.

[Rob]

 

It's a long way away from knowin what HJLee is going to be. I don't know much about him, but gold glove caliber shortstop would seem a long, long way off from a guy who's got 61 errors in 190 games. I hope the guy is good but I'd wait a few years before I even set an expectation level.

 

Not that errors matter much anyways, but with the poor field conditions in the lower minors, they don't mean anything at all.

[ctcf]

Are the Rays actually going to trade Garza without getting someone like Archer or Cashner? It sounds like that's what they're determined on. Call me stubborn but that's not worth it to me.

[dew1679666265]

Are the Rays actually going to trade Garza without getting someone like Archer or Cashner? It sounds like that's what they're determined on. Call me stubborn but that's not worth it to me.

 

Not even close to worth it.

[davell]

Are the Rays actually going to trade Garza without getting someone like Archer or Cashner? It sounds like that's what they're determined on. Call me stubborn but that's not worth it to me.

 

Not even close to worth it.

 

 

And to be honest, I think Friedman is smart enough to go ahead and maximize value than taking a chance of Garza starting off badly and lowering his value even more, which is more probable than him having an "ace" type start most likely. He's going to get a slight mulligan(meaning their going to get slightly more than normal) by playing in the AL EAST as it is right now anyway, assuming he keeps doing what he's been doing.

 

I'm thinking the Cubs would probably rather sign Webb than trade for Garza to begin with, but if we don't get Webb, my guess is something happens relatively quickly with Garza.

 

I've been a big proponent of Garza and really think he can become a solid 2ish type starter in the NL Central, but I don't want to give up the farm for him either.

[shnsajax]

Are the Rays actually going to trade Garza without getting someone like Archer or Cashner? It sounds like that's what they're determined on. Call me stubborn but that's not worth it to me.

 

Not even close to worth it.

 

 

And to be honest, I think Friedman is smart enough to go ahead and maximize value than taking a chance of Garza starting off badly and lowering his value even more, which is more probable than him having an "ace" type start most likely. He's going to get a slight mulligan(meaning their going to get slightly more than normal) by playing in the AL EAST as it is right now anyway, assuming he keeps doing what he's been doing.

 

I'm thinking the Cubs would probably rather sign Webb than trade for Garza to begin with, but if we don't get Webb, my guess is something happens relatively quickly with Garza.

 

I've been a big proponent of Garza and really think he can become a solid 2ish type starter in the NL Central, but I don't want to give up the farm for him either.

 

Their salary problems must be bad.

[dew1679666265]

I'm thinking the Cubs would probably rather sign Webb than trade for Garza to begin with, but if we don't get Webb, my guess is something happens relatively quickly with Garza.

 

This is my thinking. I tend to think Garza/Webb is an either/or proposition, and I'd much rather have the elite potential if I'm taking a bit of a gamble anyway.

[KingCubsFan]

I'm thinking the Cubs would probably rather sign Webb than trade for Garza to begin with, but if we don't get Webb, my guess is something happens relatively quickly with Garza.

 

This is my thinking. I tend to think Garza/Webb is an either/or proposition, and I'd much rather have the elite potential if I'm taking a bit of a gamble anyway.

I can understand if you wouldn't want to trade prospects and would rather just spend money on Webb. But Garza was once one of the top pitching prospect in the game. Considering Webb has had major shoulder trouble, hasn't pitched in two years and was last seen throwing in the mid-80's, I think Garza's chances at being elite are at least equal to Webb's.

[inari]

I'm thinking the Cubs would probably rather sign Webb than trade for Garza to begin with, but if we don't get Webb, my guess is something happens relatively quickly with Garza.

 

This is my thinking. I tend to think Garza/Webb is an either/or proposition, and I'd much rather have the elite potential if I'm taking a bit of a gamble anyway.

 

 

I don't see why they're either/or. A rotation of Z-Dempster-Garza-Webb-Wells/Gorz sounds pretty good to me.

[davell]

I'm thinking the Cubs would probably rather sign Webb than trade for Garza to begin with, but if we don't get Webb, my guess is something happens relatively quickly with Garza.

 

This is my thinking. I tend to think Garza/Webb is an either/or proposition, and I'd much rather have the elite potential if I'm taking a bit of a gamble anyway.

 

 

I don't see why they're either/or. A rotation of Z-Dempster-Garza-Webb-Wells/Gorz sounds pretty good to me.

 

Not enough money for both is probably the reason. Along with the thinking that either Cashner, Carpenter, or Archer could easily contribute in 2011 as well.

[dew1679666265]

Not enough money for both is probably the reason. Along with the thinking that either Cashner, Carpenter, or Archer could easily contribute in 2011 as well.

 

Yeah, Garza will cost $5 million and Webb may be anywhere from $5-10 million. I'm just not sure we can afford both at that price, unless Hendry can defer another $5 mil or so.