Cubs Acquire Garza for Archer, Lee, Guyer, Chirinos & Fuld

[Dr. Cub]

Seriously? Blah is 3 years in the MAJORS of 117, 119, and 110 ERA+? Blah is 3.2, 2.0, and 3.8 WAR? The catcher thing I'm assuming/hoping is sarcasm.

 

If Wells and his 3.1 and 3.3 WAR are blah and his 4.09 and 4.24 are blah, then yes Garza's lesser stats are blah as well. His K/9 got better by a full K, his BB/9 and HR/9 got slightly worse (.42 and .12 respectively), his LOB% got a little better while his BABIP went up and his GB/FB rate got ever so slightly better. Overall, his peripherals got slightly better than last year, though if his BABIP stays high that's not a good sign.

 

And Fangraphs has Wells with WARs of 3.3 and 3.1, while Garza's best WARs are 3.2 and 2.9. He also has seasons of 1.8 and 1.4 WAR.

 

The catcher thing is partially an explanation of why it took him so long to reach the majors, he spent the first year and a half of his pro career as a catcher. That could also explain why it's taken him a little longer to learn how to pitch at the professional level. How much of an impact did that have on his performance? I don't know, but Garza has had one more full season than Wells and two more partial seasons.

 

It's Wells minor league history of mediocrity that does him in. While Garza was putting up more than respectable numbers against MAJOR leaguers, Wells was putting up crap against MINOR leaguers. One mediocre year by Garza, and one great year by Wells does not erase multiple years of what they have been respectively in the past.

 

Simply put we have differing opinions on the issue. I don't think either will convince the other. I certainly would bet though that Wells and Garza (barring injury for either) will have quite different careers going forward and it won't be in favor of Wells.

[CUBZ99]

Wells had one good year in 2009. Garza's last three seasons he has posted WHIPs of 1.24, 1.26, and 1.25. Also, if you look at Garza's numbers about 1/3 of his starts last year were against the Yankees and the Red Sox.

[dew1679666265]

why are we talking about trading wells for garza? is that something that's actually been discussed, or did somebody just throw that out there?

 

vitters vitters vitters.

 

gooney brought it up as a trade he'd (somewhat reluctantly) go for. The only names mentioned on the Cubs' side are that Jackson and Archer won't be involved.

 

 

That was me... I'm pretty sure goony would be against it.

 

He actually brought up the idea on the bottom of the first page.

[David]

My bad. I thought you meant the idea of trading Vitters for him. Should've realized you were referring to him bringing up Wells as the piece he'd trade.

[Guest]

guys he has a 12.46 career era against the cardinals THAT'S OUR BIGGEST RIVAL

 

what are you thinken jimbo (besides time to eat the donuts)

is this serious? i hope not. that was one game. wow.

 

I'm pretty sure that post was sarcasm directed at me and my last post where I point out that Garza has an ERA below 4.00 even though he probably faced the triple threat offensive combination of the Yankees, Red Sox and Blue Jays somewhere between 8 to 10 times each year.

 

Maybe it isn't a noteworthy statistic. It seems like it would be to me, but maybe I'm wrong. Much like pitching a high percentage of your games in a pitcher friendly park can benefit your numbers, I would imagine that pitching a high percentage of your games against the top run scoring teams in the league might hurt your overall numbers as well.

 

It was actually 12 starts between the 3 teams in 2010 rather than 8-10.

[Clem Fandango]

5:17pm: The Rays have been uninspired by the offers for Garza and may hold on to the right-hander until next summer, according to Joel Sherman of the New York Post (on Twitter).

[dew1679666265]

It's Wells minor league history of mediocrity that does him in. While Garza was putting up more than respectable numbers against MAJOR leaguers, Wells was putting up crap against MINOR leaguers. One mediocre year by Garza, and one great year by Wells does not erase multiple years of what they have been respectively in the past.

 

It's actually been two good years for Wells, which Garza has matched either of them only once in his career (2009). I understand Garza was in the majors earlier, but as I said before, Wells spending nearly 2 years of his pro career as a catcher probably contributed to him coming to the majors more slowly. It shouldn't affect your opinion of how good he'll be going forward. It could also explain his less than stellar minor league numbers. I'll take 365 solid ML innings over 369 mediocre minor league innings anyway.

 

Simply put we have differing opinions on the issue. I don't think either will convince the other. I certainly would bet though that Wells and Garza (barring injury for either) will have quite different careers going forward and it won't be in favor of Wells.

 

I agree we'll never agree on this, so furthering the debate would probably just annoy people. You're feeling that Wells will collapse to complete crapiness isn't backed up statistically, though.

[dew1679666265]

My bad. I thought you meant the idea of trading Vitters for him. Should've realized you were referring to him bringing up Wells as the piece he'd trade.

 

Yeah, tree's a big fan of trading Vittes for him, but he asked where the Wells for Garza idea came from. I think gooney has already voiced his dislike of dealing Vitters for him.

[Guest]

5:17pm: The Rays have been uninspired by the offers for Garza and may hold on to the right-hander until next summer, according to Joel Sherman of the New York Post (on Twitter).

 

Isn't that Tampa's M.O.?

[shnsajax]

5:17pm: The Rays have been uninspired by the offers for Garza and may hold on to the right-hander until next summer, according to Joel Sherman of the New York Post (on Twitter).

 

Isn't that Tampa's M.O.?

 

Yep, since forever.

[davell]

5:17pm: The Rays have been uninspired by the offers for Garza and may hold on to the right-hander until next summer, according to Joel Sherman of the New York Post (on Twitter).

 

Isn't that Tampa's M.O.?

 

Yep, since forever.

 

I call it Steve Phillips Disease.

[Northside Blues]

What does Steve Phillips have to do anything. Jim Duquette traded Kazmir, not Phillips.

[davell]

Crap, then it's Jim Duquette Disease.

[Northside Blues]

To be fair, Steve Phillips traded Jason Bay, Carl Everett, AJ Burnett, Nelson Cruz and tried to trade Jose Reyes. I guess you can throw Jason Isringhausen out there too. Even Alex Escobar and Matt Lawton, I guess. He also made the Mo Vaughan trade.

[Clem Fandango]

To be fair, Steve Phillips traded Jason Bay, Carl Everett, AJ Burnett, Nelson Cruz and tried to trade Jose Reyes. I guess you can throw Jason Isringhausen out there too. Even Alex Escobar and Matt Lawton, I guess. He also made the Mo Vaughan trade.

 

Nelson Cruz was never in the Mets farm system

[Northside Blues]

Nelson Cruz was originally signed by the Mets. He played three seasons with the Mets organization in the Dominican Summer League (B-R doesn't have those years). The last year he was by far the best player in the league smashing 15 HRs with 17 SB. He was a 20 year old playing against 17-18 year olds, at the time. In 2000 he was traded to the Oakland A's for a utility infielder by the name of Jorge Velandia who was 13 for 88 in his major league career at the time (.148) and 25 years young. Velandia did post an 800 OPS in AAA that year.

[CUBZ99]

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=5900903

 

For what it is worth, Levine is reporting the Cubs met with TB again tonight and are in the lead of the Garza sweepstakes.

 

Sullivan is reporting that the Cubs are serious about Webb and in the process of reviewing his medical records. I wonder if they would sign both of them. If Webb is healthy, that would make for one heck of a rotation.

[Southpaw191679666239]

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=5900903

 

For what it is worth, Levine is reporting the Cubs met with TB again tonight and are in the lead of the Garza sweepstakes.

 

Sullivan is reporting that the Cubs are serious about Webb and in the process of reviewing his medical records. I wonder if they would sign both of them. If Webb is healthy, that would make for one heck of a rotation.

 

I am for this deal provided that the prospects aren't too many that we could have used.

[inari]

Getting Matt Garza would really excite me. If we could do it without giving up Wells, that'd be dynamite.

[questionmarkgrace]

Getting Matt Garza would really excite me. If we could do it without giving up Wells, that'd be dynamite.

 

Wells' minor league numbers suggest he will be the guy we saw this year not the guy from 09. Garza will be much better whether it includes wells or not its a no brainer provided our top farm guys are not included.

[XZero771679666304]

Getting Matt Garza would really excite me. If we could do it without giving up Wells, that'd be dynamite.

 

I'd give Wells for Garza so fast it'd make your head spin.

 

If the Cubs got Garza and Webb, we'd have a potentially great rotation.

[MWV]

Whoever first floated the "Wells for Garza" line should get into viral marketing.

[erik316wttn]

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=5900903

 

For what it is worth, Levine is reporting the Cubs met with TB again tonight and are in the lead of the Garza sweepstakes.

 

Sullivan is reporting that the Cubs are serious about Webb and in the process of reviewing his medical records. I wonder if they would sign both of them. If Webb is healthy, that would make for one heck of a rotation.

 

That article says we'd part with 'a number of top prospects', so I assume it wouldn't be Wells, seeing as he's no longer a prospect. Who would TB want?

[Rob]

Similar production. Garza has better raw stuff and pitched against tougher lineups... Wells is cheaper and under club control for longer. Wells also has much less risk for a variety of reasons, including having fewer miles on his arm and not having the same makeup concerns as Garza. I'd like to see a mechanics breakdown to see who that favors.

 

Regardless, a straight swap would be an ill-advised and very shortsighted move at best. Including prospects with Wells would be incredibly dumb.

 

That said, I do like Garza quite a bit and would love to see him become a Cub... But only if the price is right.

[Northside Blues]

Archer or McNutt.