Cubs Acquire Garza for Archer, Lee, Guyer, Chirinos & Fuld

[David]

I'd probably give up Vitters... hasn't his value diminished a whole lot?

 

For an arbitration eligible pitcher who isn't all that great? I don't like Vitters, but I would rather he be included in a deal for a guy that is more impressive. Plus, they might need him to start next season when they are clear out of corner hitters.

 

 

I'm probably pretty jaded about holding on to guys who look like they're not gonna pan out for too long. Obviously, if we could get more for him, I wouldn't include him in the deal...I just have no way of knowing that... but if that's the most we could get for him now, I'd rather deal him than hang on to him hoping his value goes up.

[David]

I'm in the minority on this one(hell, maybe even alone) but I think he's still got ace(or at least 2 starter) potential personally. Get him out of the AL East and I'm sure he'll be better in the NL Central. If we can get him without having to send any of our top 5 guys(B Jackson, Archer, McNutt, Lee, and Vitters) I'd do it.

 

I agree with you. The guy is a lot like Big Z. He has great stuff, but has a hard time putting it all together. Boy has a big temper as well.

This guy doesn't have Z's stuff, does he?

 

 

From what I've read... fastball from around 91-94, nasty slider, solid curve and change.

[davell]

He and Gorzelanny have a lot of similarities, but we're aggressively shopping one and trying to acquire the other?

i fully understand what you're saying from a numbers standpoint, but from a scouting perspective there's little comparison between the two

 

Right, and even from a numbers standpoint Garza has a bit of a leg up. I just wish they'd value Gorzelanny properly.

 

 

Is there something out there making us think they aren't going to value Gorz if he's dealt?

 

Aggressively shopping him while pursuing a marginal upgrade elsewhere leads me to believe that they aren't, especially when popular perception works in line with that thinking too.

 

 

Yeah, but no one knows exactly what "agressively" actually means either. All we've actually heard is they talked to Detroit about him(unless I'm missing something). If he were dealt for a very solid 1st or 2nd year year arb eligible reliever, is that in line with what you think his value is?

[Guest]

Why on earth would we trade Wells for Garza?

[mookie]

Why on earth would we trade Wells for Garza?

 

Tampa would never go for it, but it would be an upgrade.

[Old Style]

I'm intrigued by the possibility of adding Garza.

[fromthestretch]

Why on earth would we trade Wells for Garza?

 

Tampa would never go for it, but it would be an upgrade.

 

It's really not that much of an upgrade, and when you factor in the salary difference between the two, it makes little sense for the Cubs to make that trade.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

He and Gorzelanny have a lot of similarities, but we're aggressively shopping one and trying to acquire the other?

 

Garza won 15 games last year.

Even Kerry Wood couldn't do that.

[mookie]

Not an upgrade over Wells? Interesting. Has anyone here ever watched Garza pitch?

 

 

:shock:

[jersey cubs fan]

Why on earth would we trade Wells for Garza?

 

Because I don't want to trade anything more than that. I think Garza is a little better, but he is more expensive, so the difference in ability is offset by price.

 

 

It seems to me this team is intent on adding second tier starting pitching. I don't see the need.

[KingCubsFan]

Why on earth would we trade Wells for Garza?

 

Tampa would never go for it, but it would be an upgrade.

 

It's really not that much of an upgrade, and when you factor in the salary difference between the two, it makes little sense for the Cubs to make that trade.

Garza has a much higher upside though. It's too bad Rothschild is gone. It would be somewhat similar to when we got Clement, although Garza has had more success.

[JeffH]

Why on earth would we trade Wells for Garza?

 

Because I don't want to trade anything more than that. I think Garza is a little better, but he is more expensive, so the difference in ability is offset by price.

 

 

It seems to me this team is intent on adding second tier starting pitching. I don't see the need.

 

One thing I wonder is if the Cubs are trying to prioritize starting pitchers who don't have as much problem with racking up high pitch counts and can go a little deeper into games. Hence the interest in moving Gorzelanny and the interest in Garza.

 

In theory (and depending upon the cost in talent and dollars), it's a good idea and a good way to indirectly improve the bullpen.

 

Of course, they'd be a lot better off if they'd look for a big upgrade at second base.

[jersey cubs fan]

Why on earth would we trade Wells for Garza?

 

Because I don't want to trade anything more than that. I think Garza is a little better, but he is more expensive, so the difference in ability is offset by price.

 

 

It seems to me this team is intent on adding second tier starting pitching. I don't see the need.

 

One thing I wonder is if the Cubs are trying to prioritize starting pitchers who don't have as much problem with racking up high pitch counts and can go a little deeper into games. Hence the interest in moving Gorzelanny and the interest in Garza.

 

In theory (and depending upon the cost in talent and dollars), it's a good idea and a good way to indirectly improve the bullpen.

 

Of course, they'd be a lot better off if they'd look for a big upgrade at second base.

 

That was pretty much what they did in 2007.

[mookie]

Why on earth would we trade Wells for Garza?

 

Because I don't want to trade anything more than that. I think Garza is a little better, but he is more expensive, so the difference in ability is offset by price.

 

 

It seems to me this team is intent on adding second tier starting pitching. I don't see the need.

 

One thing I wonder is if the Cubs are trying to prioritize starting pitchers who don't have as much problem with racking up high pitch counts and can go a little deeper into games. Hence the interest in moving Gorzelanny and the interest in Garza.

 

In theory (and depending upon the cost in talent and dollars), it's a good idea and a good way to indirectly improve the bullpen.

 

Of course, they'd be a lot better off if they'd look for a big upgrade at second base.

 

Will the White Sox take Zambrano for Gordon Beckham?

[Dr. Cub]

Why on earth would we trade Wells for Garza?

 

Because I don't want to trade anything more than that. I think Garza is a little better, but he is more expensive, so the difference in ability is offset by price.

 

 

It seems to me this team is intent on adding second tier starting pitching. I don't see the need.

 

The price difference is around 3-4 million, so not too much. I would say Garza is more than a "little" better, with a longer track record of consistently good pitching. Garza was more than 1/3 of a run better in ERA (obviously that difference is likely to be much greater in switching the 2 pitchers leagues), plus a WHIP of 1.40 for Wells, and 1.25 for Garza. The typical ".50 ERA difference" in switching leagues makes these two pitchers quite different.

 

Now as for intent on adding 2nd tier pitching talent, I couldn't agree more.

[Clem Fandango]

I am rather intrigued by this. If this has legs I'm kind of worried what the Cubs would have to give up to make this happen, but if it's a reasonably acceptable amount I'd probably be more than happy to have Garza on the team. I think he's better than his numbers indicate, due to being in arguably the toughest offensive division in baseball, and think he would benefit and improve greatly upon moving to a weaker hitting division

[Guancous]

Garza will be fine in a division where Bronson Arroyo is the Game 1 playoff starter. I wouldn't trade Brett Jackson and Archer for him. I have no qualms with Gorzo and Jay Jackson though.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I'm not sure where the best place for this is, but Harold Reynolds and Mitch Williams are so unbelievably terrible. They are verging on Morgan/McCarver bad. Holy crap, MLB Network, you have certainly done plenty of bad to go along with your good. You know it's bad when you start wishing for Dan Plesac and Sean Casey to get more air time.

 

Honorable mention goes to Chris Rose and Kevin Millar.

[Clem Fandango]

I'm not sure where the best place for this is, but Harold Reynolds and Mitch Williams are so unbelievably terrible. They are verging on Morgan/McCarver bad. Holy crap, MLB Network, you have certainly done plenty of bad to go along with your good. You know it's bad when you start wishing for Dan Plesac and Sean Casey to get more air time.

 

Honorable mention goes to Chris Rose and Kevin Millar.

 

Mitch Williams pretty much insulted Aubrey Huff on live television by insinuating that he robbed the Giants with his new contract and then told him he could take all his money and buy rally thongs with it. Hard hitting analysis and interview skills by Mitch Williams

[Southpaw191679666239]

Levine says Archer and Jackson are NOT involved in any deal for Garza.

[jersey cubs fan]

The price difference is around 3-4 million, so not too much. I would say Garza is more than a "little" better, with a longer track record of consistently good pitching. Garza was more than 1/3 of a run better in ERA (obviously that difference is likely to be much greater in switching the 2 pitchers leagues), plus a WHIP of 1.40 for Wells, and 1.25 for Garza. The typical ".50 ERA difference" in switching leagues makes these two pitchers quite different.

 

Now as for intent on adding 2nd tier pitching talent, I couldn't agree more.

 

Somehow what I was writing disappeared. Anyway, price difference should easily be $5m+ this season with Garza being arbitration eligible coming off a 15 win sub 4 ERA season.

 

Also, ERA should not be only way you judge him, and I believe his ERA might not be as good as advertised.

[Clem Fandango]

The price difference is around 3-4 million, so not too much. I would say Garza is more than a "little" better, with a longer track record of consistently good pitching. Garza was more than 1/3 of a run better in ERA (obviously that difference is likely to be much greater in switching the 2 pitchers leagues), plus a WHIP of 1.40 for Wells, and 1.25 for Garza. The typical ".50 ERA difference" in switching leagues makes these two pitchers quite different.

 

Now as for intent on adding 2nd tier pitching talent, I couldn't agree more.

 

Somehow what I was writing disappeared. Anyway, price difference should easily be $5m+ this season with Garza being arbitration eligible coming off a 15 win sub 4 ERA season.

 

Also, ERA should not be only way you judge him, and I believe his ERA might not be as good as advertised.

 

The thing that definitely concerns me about Garza is that his BABIP was .279 last year which is below his career .293, and his FIP and xFIP were about 50-60 points higher than his ERA. That's not a good sign, but I still think it has more to do with being in a tougher division than him not being that good of a pitcher. It's not like he came out of nowhere. He's a former top prospect who definitely has the ability to succeed, but I think if you move him into a division where he gets to face the tough lineups that Houston and Pittsburgh throw at him I think he improves a bit to the point where we'd be glad to have him on the team.

 

The question is how much does Tampa Bay value him and how much would we have to give up? Based on his numbers we shouldn't have to give up a whole lot, but based on who he is and what his history has been they'll probably ask for a decent return

[fromthestretch]

The price difference is around 3-4 million, so not too much. I would say Garza is more than a "little" better, with a longer track record of consistently good pitching. Garza was more than 1/3 of a run better in ERA (obviously that difference is likely to be much greater in switching the 2 pitchers leagues), plus a WHIP of 1.40 for Wells, and 1.25 for Garza. The typical ".50 ERA difference" in switching leagues makes these two pitchers quite different.

 

Now as for intent on adding 2nd tier pitching talent, I couldn't agree more.

 

Somehow what I was writing disappeared. Anyway, price difference should easily be $5m+ this season with Garza being arbitration eligible coming off a 15 win sub 4 ERA season.

 

Also, ERA should not be only way you judge him, and I believe his ERA might not be as good as advertised.

 

It isn't. In fact, his ERA+ was actually worse than Wells in 2010.

[Dr. Cub]

The price difference is around 3-4 million, so not too much. I would say Garza is more than a "little" better, with a longer track record of consistently good pitching. Garza was more than 1/3 of a run better in ERA (obviously that difference is likely to be much greater in switching the 2 pitchers leagues), plus a WHIP of 1.40 for Wells, and 1.25 for Garza. The typical ".50 ERA difference" in switching leagues makes these two pitchers quite different.

 

Now as for intent on adding 2nd tier pitching talent, I couldn't agree more.

 

Somehow what I was writing disappeared. Anyway, price difference should easily be $5m+ this season with Garza being arbitration eligible coming off a 15 win sub 4 ERA season.

 

Also, ERA should not be only way you judge him, and I believe his ERA might not be as good as advertised.

 

I agree wholeheartedly about ERA not being the only thing to judge them on. Just quick and easy to find. I guess I could see the $ difference being that much too. Curious as to why you think his ERA might not be as good advertised? Especially since it's his worst in years, and a move from facing DH's to pitchers in the NL potentially?

[Clem Fandango]

The price difference is around 3-4 million, so not too much. I would say Garza is more than a "little" better, with a longer track record of consistently good pitching. Garza was more than 1/3 of a run better in ERA (obviously that difference is likely to be much greater in switching the 2 pitchers leagues), plus a WHIP of 1.40 for Wells, and 1.25 for Garza. The typical ".50 ERA difference" in switching leagues makes these two pitchers quite different.

 

Now as for intent on adding 2nd tier pitching talent, I couldn't agree more.

 

Somehow what I was writing disappeared. Anyway, price difference should easily be $5m+ this season with Garza being arbitration eligible coming off a 15 win sub 4 ERA season.

 

Also, ERA should not be only way you judge him, and I believe his ERA might not be as good as advertised.

 

It isn't. In fact, his ERA+ was actually worse than Wells in 2010.

 

Plus...

 

Garza's 2010 WAR - 1.8

Wells' 2010 WAR - 3.3