Lilly & Theriot to the Dodgers for DeWitt, 2 Minor Leaguers

[Tarver]

The Cubs have exactly 0 guys who are on track to be MLB regulars at the C position, at least not without a good bit of luck. It's not a deep position.

 

That said, I'm not super crazy about Thole being the return for Lilly, although his name being mentioned suggests that the Cubs can get at least that good a player for TRL.

 

They better get a good return. If they can't, keep him.

 

On the other hand, Lee needs to go ASAP just in case Hendry survives '10. No way he's getting anything close to $10 mil in FA.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Tarver

[davell]

No team is going to trade a top 5 prospect in the whole game for Ted Lilly, let alone a team like the Rays that are very stingy trading prospects.

 

But it's good to see 3 new teams interested in Lilly. The Twins (Ramos, Gibson and Hicks) and Rays have some intriguing prospects (besides Jennings and Hellickson, I like McGee, Moore or maybe they'll part with Davis)

 

 

I agree with this. It wouldn't surprise me if we were after Brignac from them either. With Hendry having said something to the affect of "any trade we make will have designs on next season, I could see Brignac, Rodriguez, or Navarro being guys we'd target. Personally, I think Brignac would be a great haul for Lilly, but others may disagree......I'd take McGee or Moore in a heartbeat, if they were made available though.

[ScrubMD]

Any possibility of or interest in (or both) an Upton for Lilly type swap? I really have no idea how highly the Rays consider Upton's value right now or what the overall feeling on the board is about Upton.

 

He was mentioned in the blurb about being available, though.

 

Wed have to include a lot more than Lilly to get Upton. Also, I dont know how Lilly would fare in a divison loaded with sluggers and Im sure that the Yanks and Rays both have that in mind.

 

He played for the Blue Jays before we signed him.

[Guest]

Any possibility of or interest in (or both) an Upton for Lilly type swap? I really have no idea how highly the Rays consider Upton's value right now or what the overall feeling on the board is about Upton.

 

He was mentioned in the blurb about being available, though.

 

Wed have to include a lot more than Lilly to get Upton. Also, I dont know how Lilly would fare in a divison loaded with sluggers and Im sure that the Yanks and Rays both have that in mind.

 

He played for the Blue Jays before we signed him.

 

The Yankees too.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Any possibility of or interest in (or both) an Upton for Lilly type swap? I really have no idea how highly the Rays consider Upton's value right now or what the overall feeling on the board is about Upton.

 

He was mentioned in the blurb about being available, though.

 

Wed have to include a lot more than Lilly to get Upton. Also, I dont know how Lilly would fare in a divison loaded with sluggers and Im sure that the Yanks and Rays both have that in mind.

 

He played for the Blue Jays before we signed him.

 

The Yankees too.

 

And in the 7 years he spent between those 2 teams, he posted a 59-57 record with a 4.52 ERA and 1.37 WHIP, as opposed to 47-34 with a 3.75 ERA and 1.15 in his 3.5 with the Cubs.

[dew1679666265]

Any possibility of or interest in (or both) an Upton for Lilly type swap? I really have no idea how highly the Rays consider Upton's value right now or what the overall feeling on the board is about Upton.

 

He was mentioned in the blurb about being available, though.

 

Wed have to include a lot more than Lilly to get Upton.

 

Entirely possible, but Upton has posted OPS' of .784, .686 and .715 the past two and a half seasons. His only really good ML season was in 2007 when he posted an .894 OPS. His WAR has gone from 4.2 and 4.6 in 2007 and 2008 to 2.1 in 2009 and 1.3 so far this year. Since becoming a Cub (2007), Lilly's WAR has been 3.6, 2.7 and 3.7 (0.8 so far this year).

 

Average WAR since 2007:

 

Upton: 3.05

Lilly: 2.7

 

The main reason I have my doubts they'd have interest is that Upton is 25 (26 in August) and was an elite prospect coming up and Lilly would just be a half-season rental. However, if they really feel that Lilly could help them, I don't know that we'd have to give that much along with him.

[rawaction]

I think the Cubs could get Upton for Lilly. They were going to give up Upton for Cliff Lee, who is also a half year rental. Lee is better than Lilly, but the Rays were also rumored to be giving up more than just BJ.

 

I think the Rays are definitely interested in trading from their ML roster. Between 2B, SS, CF, and RF they have been playing Brignac, Upton, Zobrist, Rodriguez, Joyce, Kapler, Bartlett, and Joyce. Other than Zobrist they have all been interchangable all putting up sub .730 OPS's. They'd love to trade 2 guys from that group and let the others play everyday in hopes that one or two get hot with consistent PT. Upton is the one that has had the most chance to play everyday and hasn't performed well enough, therefore he is probably most likely to be gone, IMO.

[dew1679666265]

I think the Cubs could get Upton for Lilly.

 

What would be your feelings on that deal, from the Cubs' perspective?

 

I don't think Hendry will entertain it because of the logjam in the OF already and the organization's desire to get Colvin more PAs, but I still like Upton's upside and think he's be a good return for Lilly.

[jersey cubs fan]

BJ Upton kind of sucks, doesn't he? Or at least he's really fallen off a cliff after a hot start to his career. Plus, he's got to be close to making big money. What exactly is his position? CF? Is he a really good one? Unless you're dealing Fukudome immediately and then platooning Byrd and Colvin in RF, I'm not sure I see much value in going after Upton. He doesn't make them better short-term and his price is just going to go up and up.

[Guest]

I'd love to get Upton for Lilly. The problem is that he adds to an already crowded outfield. Ideally, we'd trade Lilly for Upton, give Colvin everyday ABs in AAA, then deal Byrd in the offseason and go Soriano/Upton/Fukudome with Colvin filling in in 2011.

[dew1679666265]

BJ Upton kind of sucks, doesn't he? Or at least he's really fallen off a cliff after a hot start to his career. Plus, he's got to be close to making big money. What exactly is his position? CF? Is he a really good one? Unless you're dealing Fukudome immediately and then platooning Byrd and Colvin in RF, I'm not sure I see much value in going after Upton. He doesn't make them better short-term and his price is just going to go up and up.

 

After his .894 OPS in 2007, he has kind of fallen off a cliff (.784, .686, .715 since) but he's only 25 (26 in August) and was an elite prospect (#2 in baseball in 2004). His past two BABIPs have been a bit lower than his career average as well (.334 career; .310 in 2009 and .290 this year).

 

Defensively, he's very good according to UZR/150: 10.7 in LF and 5.5 in CF. He just lost an arbitration hearing before the year and is making $3 million this year.

 

I'll admit it's more the elite prospect status that intrigues me about him, but I can definitely see the reasons we wouldn't have interest in him. My thinking is, if we can't get one or more current top prospect(s) for Lilly, I'd take Upton before a package of lower minors/upside guys.

[Guest]

BJ Upton kind of sucks, doesn't he? Or at least he's really fallen off a cliff after a hot start to his career. Plus, he's got to be close to making big money. What exactly is his position? CF? Is he a really good one? Unless you're dealing Fukudome immediately and then platooning Byrd and Colvin in RF, I'm not sure I see much value in going after Upton. He doesn't make them better short-term and his price is just going to go up and up.

 

Upton was a 4 win player in 2007 and 2008, 2.1 WAR last year, and is on pace to be about a 2.5 win guy this year despite a .715 OPS. He's only 26 next month, so any step forward offensively for his last 2 arbitration years as he goes through his peak years would make him a pretty elite CF, and even if he doesn't he won't be way overpaid because of his defense and position. Personally, I like that gamble quite a bit better than most minor leaguers that Lilly would bring in, and it has much higher upside too.

[jersey cubs fan]

BJ Upton kind of sucks, doesn't he? Or at least he's really fallen off a cliff after a hot start to his career. Plus, he's got to be close to making big money. What exactly is his position? CF? Is he a really good one? Unless you're dealing Fukudome immediately and then platooning Byrd and Colvin in RF, I'm not sure I see much value in going after Upton. He doesn't make them better short-term and his price is just going to go up and up.

 

After his .894 OPS in 2007, he has kind of fallen off a cliff (.784, .686, .715 since) but he's only 25 (26 in August) and was an elite prospect (#2 in baseball in 2004). His past two BABIPs have been a bit lower than his career average as well (.334 career; .310 in 2009 and .290 this year).

 

Defensively, he's very good according to UZR/150: 10.7 in LF and 5.5 in CF. He just lost an arbitration hearing before the year and is making $3 million this year.

 

I'll admit it's more the elite prospect status that intrigues me about him, but I can definitely see the reasons we wouldn't have interest in him. My thinking is, if we can't get one or more current top prospect(s) for Lilly, I'd take Upton before a package of lower minors/upside guys.

 

Yeah, I'd rather take a gamble on him than more depth type prospects.

[Guest]

BJ Upton kind of sucks, doesn't he? Or at least he's really fallen off a cliff after a hot start to his career. Plus, he's got to be close to making big money. What exactly is his position? CF? Is he a really good one? Unless you're dealing Fukudome immediately and then platooning Byrd and Colvin in RF, I'm not sure I see much value in going after Upton. He doesn't make them better short-term and his price is just going to go up and up.

 

After his .894 OPS in 2007, he has kind of fallen off a cliff (.784, .686, .715 since) but he's only 25 (26 in August) and was an elite prospect (#2 in baseball in 2004). His past two BABIPs have been a bit lower than his career average as well (.334 career; .310 in 2009 and .290 this year).

 

Defensively, he's very good according to UZR/150: 10.7 in LF and 5.5 in CF. He just lost an arbitration hearing before the year and is making $3 million this year.

 

I'll admit it's more the elite prospect status that intrigues me about him, but I can definitely see the reasons we wouldn't have interest in him. My thinking is, if we can't get one or more current top prospect(s) for Lilly, I'd take Upton before a package of lower minors/upside guys.

 

Yeah, I'd rather take a gamble on him than more depth type prospects.

BJ Upton is the player Corey Patterson was supposed to be. The Rays are sour on on him b/c he doesn't run as fast as he can to get to balls in the gap and some other things attitude wise. He's going to be dealt in the off-season. Maybe they can move Fukudome and Lilly in one trade and get Upton and a nice lower level prospect or something. They'll have to pay big dollars though.

 

However, I think the Cubs should try to get the best player available for Lilly, I can't see anyone better than Upton, but if they can find one...

[Sammy Sofa]

UH-OH SPAGHETTI-O'S, CLUBHOUSE CANCER!!! Meathead fans are already at half-mast in anticipation...

[sneakypower]

I'd love to get Upton for Lilly. The problem is that he adds to an already crowded outfield. Ideally, we'd trade Lilly for Upton, give Colvin everyday ABs in AAA, then deal Byrd in the offseason and go Soriano/Upton/Fukudome with Colvin filling in in 2011.

ideally, we'd just move Colvin for Alex Gordon to free a spot for BJ in that scenario

 

(and Fuku to the Sox for something like Bowden)

[Guest]

Colvin for Gordon may be the best idea I've ever heard.

[17 Seconds]

BJ Upton kind of sucks, doesn't he? Or at least he's really fallen off a cliff after a hot start to his career. Plus, he's got to be close to making big money. What exactly is his position? CF? Is he a really good one? Unless you're dealing Fukudome immediately and then platooning Byrd and Colvin in RF, I'm not sure I see much value in going after Upton. He doesn't make them better short-term and his price is just going to go up and up.

 

After his .894 OPS in 2007, he has kind of fallen off a cliff (.784, .686, .715 since) but he's only 25 (26 in August) and was an elite prospect (#2 in baseball in 2004). His past two BABIPs have been a bit lower than his career average as well (.334 career; .310 in 2009 and .290 this year).

 

Defensively, he's very good according to UZR/150: 10.7 in LF and 5.5 in CF. He just lost an arbitration hearing before the year and is making $3 million this year.

 

I'll admit it's more the elite prospect status that intrigues me about him, but I can definitely see the reasons we wouldn't have interest in him. My thinking is, if we can't get one or more current top prospect(s) for Lilly, I'd take Upton before a package of lower minors/upside guys.

 

Yeah, I'd rather take a gamble on him than more depth type prospects.

BJ Upton is the player Corey Patterson was supposed to be. The Rays are sour on on him b/c he doesn't run as fast as he can to get to balls in the gap and some other things attitude wise.

 

What? BJ Upton kind of sucks. That's why they've soured on him.

 

2008- .273/.383/.401

2009- .241/.313/.373

2010- .230/.320/.395

 

He's getting ready to turn 26. Where are the results?

[Guest]

BJ Upton kind of sucks, doesn't he? Or at least he's really fallen off a cliff after a hot start to his career. Plus, he's got to be close to making big money. What exactly is his position? CF? Is he a really good one? Unless you're dealing Fukudome immediately and then platooning Byrd and Colvin in RF, I'm not sure I see much value in going after Upton. He doesn't make them better short-term and his price is just going to go up and up.

 

After his .894 OPS in 2007, he has kind of fallen off a cliff (.784, .686, .715 since) but he's only 25 (26 in August) and was an elite prospect (#2 in baseball in 2004). His past two BABIPs have been a bit lower than his career average as well (.334 career; .310 in 2009 and .290 this year).

 

Defensively, he's very good according to UZR/150: 10.7 in LF and 5.5 in CF. He just lost an arbitration hearing before the year and is making $3 million this year.

 

I'll admit it's more the elite prospect status that intrigues me about him, but I can definitely see the reasons we wouldn't have interest in him. My thinking is, if we can't get one or more current top prospect(s) for Lilly, I'd take Upton before a package of lower minors/upside guys.

 

Yeah, I'd rather take a gamble on him than more depth type prospects.

BJ Upton is the player Corey Patterson was supposed to be. The Rays are sour on on him b/c he doesn't run as fast as he can to get to balls in the gap and some other things attitude wise.

 

What? BJ Upton kind of sucks. That's why they've soured on him.

 

2008- .273/.383/.401

2009- .241/.313/.373

2010- .230/.320/.395

 

He's getting ready to turn 26. Where are the results?

I'd take him for Lilly in a second. Upton played hurt all last year.

[dew1679666265]

What? BJ Upton kind of sucks. That's why they've soured on him.

 

2008- .273/.383/.401

2009- .241/.313/.373

2010- .230/.320/.395

 

He's getting ready to turn 26. Where are the results?

 

He was 6th in WAR among all CFs in baseball in 2007 and 4th in WAR in 2008. He definitely dropped off last year, but he's on pace – as TT said – to be a 2.5 WAR player this year. He's not been as good the past two years, but 26 really isn't that old, meaning there's plenty of time for him to continue developing. A change of scenery might help as well.

 

I wouldn't trade the moon for him, but Lilly for him seems fair.

[davearm2]

In a vaccuum getting Upton for Lilly sounds pretty good, although frankly I like the Cubs' CF situation better as it is: Byrd now, Jackson later.

 

Now trading Lilly for Upton, then Byrd for something useful might be the best of all worlds.

[dew1679666265]

In a vaccuum getting Upton for Lilly sounds pretty good, although frankly I like the Cubs' CF situation better as it is: Byrd now, Jackson later.

 

Now trading Lilly for Upton, then Byrd for something useful might be the best of all worlds.

 

Why not, after an Upton for Lilly swap, trade Kosuke and then platoon Byrd and Colvin in right? Or just give Byrd right field full time? He's played 109 games there and, while UZR gets pretty inaccurate in smaller sample sizes, is a 13.2 UZR/150 defender there.

 

It's not ideal, but his .845 OPS would be 5th in the NL among right fielders with at least 150 PAs. Let him play in right next year and then work on dealing him either at the deadline or in the 2011 offseason.

[Guest]

Looks like there are quite a few teams interested in Lilly now - both New York teams, Tampa, Minnesota, Detroit, Cincinnati and the Dodgers. There's no excuse for not getting good return for Lilly, despite his back-to-back poor outings.

[UK1679666180]

I'm definitely glad there's a market for him and they have a chance to get to choose prospect from whichever team is interested and select the best prospect(s), similar to when Florida select Willis among several choices.

 

I wish Silva had been throwing better and not showing signs of breaking down.

[rawaction]

Looks like there are quite a few teams interested in Lilly now - both New York teams, Tampa, Minnesota, Detroit, Cincinnati and the Dodgers. There's no excuse for not getting good return for Lilly, despite his back-to-back poor outings.

 

Outside of the NY teams, those are some teams with some very strong minor league systems and some young major league talent. I'd love to make a trade with any of those teams.