Michael Wuertz traded to A's for 2 minor leaguers (p. 2)

[Guancous]

I thought someone was making a Royal Tenenbaums joke when they said one of the prospects had stomach cancer. I was wrong but I'm glad the guy is healthy again.

[seanhopper]

I just read that the Cubs added Richard Pryer Robnett to the 40 man roster. The Cubs couldn't find a spot for Josh Kroeger, who's practically the same age and has proven himself in AAA, a spot of the 40 man roster, but they reserve one for this guy? This offseason has been extremely frustrating on so many levels.

 

Hendry has really mismanaged his prospects and how to get the best value for them over the last few yrs.

[cubsfan26]

I just read that the Cubs added Richard Pryer Robnett to the 40 man roster. The Cubs couldn't find a spot for Josh Kroeger, who's practically the same age and has proven himself in AAA, a spot of the 40 man roster, but they reserve one for this guy? This offseason has been extremely frustrating on so many levels.

 

If the Cubs didn't like Robnett then why would they trade for this guy? He's been a bust of a prospect so far, but still has talent. While Josh Kroeger has played with a bunch of different teams in his career for a reason. Probably because Robnett has the talent to be a major leaguer, if he never figures it out. While Kroeger probably doesn't have the talent to hit major league pitching. Thats why scouts are still very important.

 

Hendry has really mismanaged his prospects and how to get the best value for them over the last few yrs

 

Or Cubs fans have really overrated our prospects, and felt they were worth alot more then they actually were, and felt they could get alot more value for them then they actually could. I'm willing to bet thats the case, and this is just more worthless complaining.

[SouthSideRyan]

I just read that the Cubs added Richard Pryer Robnett to the 40 man roster. The Cubs couldn't find a spot for Josh Kroeger, who's practically the same age and has proven himself in AAA, a spot of the 40 man roster, but they reserve one for this guy? This offseason has been extremely frustrating on so many levels.

 

Hendry has really mismanaged his prospects and how to get the best value for them over the last few yrs.

 

There's no reason to roster him now, I don't think Jim Hendry really understands how 40 man rosters work.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Josh Kroeger was a former 4th rounder who did nothing but hit as a Cub. He left as a free agent because the Cubs never needed him badly enough(at least in their estimation to roster him, with LH bench bats like Hoffpauir, Fuld and Pie already being on the 40 man.

 

Speaking of, Robnett looks pretty redundant with Fuld on the roster. The Cubs organization seems to value the little energy guy too much, from the draft(using worthwhile picks on Campana, Harrison, Leon Johnson, to a lesser extent Darwin Barney) to trading for guys like Robnett to signing guys like Gathright. It makes their reluctance to go to Fuld for a bench spot even more puzzling.

[Guest]

Josh Kroeger was a former 4th rounder who did nothing but hit as a Cub. He left as a free agent because the Cubs never needed him badly enough(at least in their estimation to roster him, with LH bench bats like Hoffpauir, Fuld and Pie already being on the 40 man.

 

Speaking of, Robnett looks pretty redundant with Fuld on the roster. The Cubs organization seems to value the little energy guy too much, from the draft(using worthwhile picks on Campana, Harrison, Leon Johnson, to a lesser extent Darwin Barney) to trading for guys like Robnett to signing guys like Gathright. It makes their reluctance to go to Fuld for a bench spot even more puzzling.

Robnett is supposed to be a (little in size) big power guy, though. He's been injured twice - in his non-injury seasons he's shown decent power.

 

At age 21 in high A, he hit 30 doubles and 20 hr (granted, it was the cal league)

At age 22, he had an injury-shortened season

At age 23, he had 39 doubles and 18 hr (granted, it was the texas league)

At age 24, he had stomach cancer

 

I'm more concerned about his ability to make consistent contact, even when healthy.

[TheDude]

Between Hill, Wuertz, Pie, and Cedeno, I have to think that we could have packaged some of these guys and gotten something more worthwhile.

 

Hendry probably could have had his pick of the litter 3 years ago.

 

That's the gamble you take. Either you play them and hope they develop, or you trade them while they have value. You can't have it both ways. Obviously hindsight says trading Hill and Cedeno for Roberts last year would have been a good deal for the Cubs, but who would have guessed that Hill would destroy his own value? Pie never had full-time shake. The Cubs should have traded him last year when they acquired Edmonds to maximize his value.

[SouthSideRyan]

I just read that the Cubs added Richard Pryer Robnett to the 40 man roster. The Cubs couldn't find a spot for Josh Kroeger, who's practically the same age and has proven himself in AAA, a spot of the 40 man roster, but they reserve one for this guy? This offseason has been extremely frustrating on so many levels.

 

Hendry has really mismanaged his prospects and how to get the best value for them over the last few yrs.

 

There's no reason to roster him now, I don't think Jim Hendry really understands how 40 man rosters work.

 

Nevermind this post, Robnett was on Oakland's 40 man roster already. After Snyder is dumped for nothing next offseason, Robnett can take over his spot of OF that will never see the majors and can get dumped in the '11 offseason.

[NewUserName]

 

Hendry has really mismanaged his prospects and how to get the best value for them over the last few yrs

 

Or Cubs fans have really overrated our prospects, and felt they were worth alot more then they actually were, and felt they could get alot more value for them then they actually could. I'm willing to bet thats the case, and this is just more worthless complaining.

 

I am not sure that any of these guys were ever over-rated. Pie was never given a chance. Hill performed very well for a year and a half. Wuertz was an effective bullpen arm. Cedeno probably was over valued by some. I think all of them had much higher trade values at various times in their Cub careers. I think the Cubs used some faulty logic with at least 2 of them that lowered their trade values. Also wasting options in a couple of cases probably helped lead to the point that they had to be traded so we just didnt lose them for nothing. I think it would be hard to say that the Cubs received maximum value for these guys.

 

Also, at some point you have to question the Cubs ability to produce position players from their system. It cant just be bad drafting. If Soto starts 2 more years he will be just the 3rd position player in 40+ yrs that the Cubs have developed who has started more than 3 years for the Cubs. That cannot just be bad drafting. I think someone could just throw the best 500 players in the country in a hat and draw out a name randomly and still get better results.

[sneakypower]

Or Cubs fans have really overrated our prospects, and felt they were worth alot more then they actually were, and felt they could get alot more value for them then they actually could. I'm willing to bet thats the case, and this is just more worthless complaining.

ok then, take your pick- Hendry:

 

-has really mismanaged his prospects and how to get the best value for them over the last few yrs

-has put together an absolutely piss-poor farm system, which with the resources he's had at hand, is downright indefensible

 

 

at least one of the two statements is correct

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Or Cubs fans have really overrated our prospects, and felt they were worth alot more then they actually were, and felt they could get alot more value for them then they actually could. I'm willing to bet thats the case, and this is just more worthless complaining.

ok then, take your pick- Hendry:

 

-has really mismanaged his prospects and how to get the best value for them over the last few yrs

-has put together an absolutely piss-poor farm system, which with the resources he's had at hand, is downright indefensible

 

 

at least one of the two statements is correct

 

3) Had a lot of really good prospects and got unlucky that few panned out.

 

Not my opinion of the situation, but a defensible possibility.

[Soul]

Or Cubs fans have really overrated our prospects, and felt they were worth alot more then they actually were, and felt they could get alot more value for them then they actually could. I'm willing to bet thats the case, and this is just more worthless complaining.

ok then, take your pick- Hendry:

 

-has really mismanaged his prospects and how to get the best value for them over the last few yrs

-has put together an absolutely piss-poor farm system, which with the resources he's had at hand, is downright indefensible

 

 

at least one of the two statements is correct

 

The first is more true, IMO.

[Post Count Padder]

Or Cubs fans have really overrated our prospects, and felt they were worth alot more then they actually were, and felt they could get alot more value for them then they actually could. I'm willing to bet thats the case, and this is just more worthless complaining.

ok then, take your pick- Hendry:

 

-has really mismanaged his prospects and how to get the best value for them over the last few yrs

-has put together an absolutely piss-poor farm system, which with the resources he's had at hand, is downright indefensible

 

 

at least one of the two statements is correct

 

3) Had a lot of really good prospects and got unlucky that few panned out.

 

Not my opinion of the situation, but a defensible possibility.

Yeah, we've had a number of good prospects that never reached their potential:

 

Pie

C-Patt

Choi

Bobby Hill

Prior

Montanez

Cedeno

 

and the list goes on and on...

[cubsfan26]

-has really mismanaged his prospects and how to get the best value for them over the last few yrs

 

False, most of those prospects never had the value fans wanted to believe they had.

 

-has put together an absolutely piss-poor farm system, which with the resources he's had at hand, is downright indefensible

 

Partly true, but it's more the people Hendry hired under him that have screwed up the farm. A GM can only do so much, and is often busy working on improving the big league team. He personally isn't gonna go scout young highschool or college players very often. So personally I never praise or bash a GM based on the farm, as his performance. That would be like calling Hendry a idiot because Dusty Baker was our manager. But you could say he's done a bad job in hiring people(like he did with Dusty), when it came to the minor leagues.

 

 

 

 

When Hendry was incharge of the farm, our system was ranked towards the top in baseball, and when he first became GM. He used this minor league resources to get players like Ramirez/Lofton, Lee and Nomar. Over the last few years he's had some bad luck with top prospects, and good luck with average prospects. Overall he hasn't had all that much too work with in trades, and giving young players full-time roles. A Gm job is a 100 times easier when you have a good farm. Like I mentioned in the past compare good/bad contracts between Hendry/Theo Epstein, and it's very simliar. The difference is the Red Sox have gotten great production from the farm, and the Cubs haven't.

[Wrigley Rat]

I just read that the Cubs added Richard Pryer Robnett to the 40 man roster. The Cubs couldn't find a spot for Josh Kroeger, who's practically the same age and has proven himself in AAA, a spot of the 40 man roster, but they reserve one for this guy? This offseason has been extremely frustrating on so many levels.

 

Hendry has really mismanaged his prospects and how to get the best value for them over the last few yrs.

 

There's no reason to roster him now, I don't think Jim Hendry really understands how 40 man rosters work.

 

Nevermind this post, Robnett was on Oakland's 40 man roster already. After Snyder is dumped for nothing next offseason, Robnett can take over his spot of OF that will never see the majors and can get dumped in the '11 offseason.

FYI - Snyder is out of options and will most likely be released after spring training. He was signed to be insurance for if/when we traded Pie, but Gathright fills his spot. If he does anything in spring training he could be traded for a nobody, he may also be released earlier if we need his roster spot.

[nilodnayr]

Or Cubs fans have really overrated our prospects, and felt they were worth alot more then they actually were, and felt they could get alot more value for them then they actually could. I'm willing to bet thats the case, and this is just more worthless complaining.

ok then, take your pick- Hendry:

 

-has really mismanaged his prospects and how to get the best value for them over the last few yrs

-has put together an absolutely piss-poor farm system, which with the resources he's had at hand, is downright indefensible

 

 

at least one of the two statements is correct

 

3) Had a lot of really good prospects and got unlucky that few panned out.

 

Not my opinion of the situation, but a defensible possibility.

 

Honestly, all three of those play a big role. If I were to order them I'd say 2, 1, 3.

 

I ranked 1 over 3 not because of his recent trades but because of non-trade mismanagement of guys like Patterson, Pie, and Cedeno. The Cubs handled each of those situations pretty poorly. It wasn't luck that they didn't blossom.

[nilodnayr]

-has really mismanaged his prospects and how to get the best value for them over the last few yrs

 

False, most of those prospects never had the value fans wanted to believe they had.

 

-has put together an absolutely piss-poor farm system, which with the resources he's had at hand, is downright indefensible

 

Partly true, but it's more the people Hendry hired under him that have screwed up the farm. A GM can only do so much, and is often busy working on improving the big league team. He personally isn't gonna go scout young highschool or college players very often. So personally I never praise or bash a GM based on the farm, as his performance. That would be like calling Hendry a idiot because Dusty Baker was our manager. But you could say he's done a bad job in hiring people(like he did with Dusty), when it came to the minor leagues.

 

 

 

 

When Hendry was incharge of the farm, our system was ranked towards the top in baseball, and when he first became GM. He used this minor league resources to get players like Ramirez/Lofton, Lee and Nomar. Over the last few years he's had some bad luck with top prospects, and good luck with average prospects. Overall he hasn't had all that much too work with in trades, and giving young players full-time roles. A Gm job is a 100 times easier when you have a good farm. Like I mentioned in the past compare good/bad contracts between Hendry/Theo Epstein, and it's very simliar. The difference is the Red Sox have gotten great production from the farm, and the Cubs haven't.

 

FYI, the GM is in charge of the farm system too.

[Guest]

Yeah, we've had a number of good prospects that never reached their potential:

 

Pie

C-Patt

Choi

Bobby Hill

Prior

Montanez

Cedeno

 

and the list goes on and on...

Pie - imo - they waited until he was too far up the ladder to try and shorten his swing.

Cory - ditto, with the added complication of being rushed

Choi - could have been great, but never really recovered from his hand/wrist injury

Hill - hurt his back and was never the same

Prior - hard to say he didn't reach his potential. Just a damn shame that he got abused like that in his first full season

Montanez - didn't have the talent to start with; bad scouting job here

Cedeno - I'm not sure that this isn't what his talent level really is; needs a full-time job in mlb to find out

[cubsfan26]

FYI, the GM is in charge of the farm system too.

 

I understand that but he hires people to run it he doesn't run it for him. Yes a GM overseas it, and makes most of the final decisions. But most of the time you listen to the minor league scouts, experts that you hired and what they want to do. It's not humanily possible for one person to run a major league team, and everything that goes on with that and put together a great farm. Alot of the time you're only as good as the people you have working under you. So far Hendry has done a poor job hiring people to run the farm for him. He brought in Tim Wilkins, and things appear a little better, but not as good as it should be yet.

[erik316wttn]

Or Cubs fans have really overrated our prospects, and felt they were worth alot more then they actually were, and felt they could get alot more value for them then they actually could. I'm willing to bet thats the case, and this is just more worthless complaining.

ok then, take your pick- Hendry:

 

-has really mismanaged his prospects and how to get the best value for them over the last few yrs

-has put together an absolutely piss-poor farm system, which with the resources he's had at hand, is downright indefensible

 

 

at least one of the two statements is correct

 

3) Had a lot of really good prospects and got unlucky that few panned out.

 

Not my opinion of the situation, but a defensible possibility.

Yeah, we've had a number of good prospects that never reached their potential:

 

Pie

C-Patt

Choi

Bobby Hill

Prior

Montanez

Cedeno

 

and the list goes on and on...

 

Don't forget David Kelton

 

Remember when Kelton, Montanez, Hill, and Choi was supposed to be our infield of the future?

[The Other 15]

Yeah, we've had a number of good prospects that never reached their potential:

 

Pie

C-Patt

Choi

Bobby Hill

Prior

Montanez

Cedeno

 

and the list goes on and on...

Pie - imo - they waited until he was too far up the ladder to try and shorten his swing.

Cory - ditto, with the added complication of being rushed

Choi - could have been great, but never really recovered from his hand/wrist injury

Hill - hurt his back and was never the same

Prior - hard to say he didn't reach his potential. Just a damn shame that he got abused like that in his first full season

Montanez - didn't have the talent to start with; bad scouting job here

Cedeno - I'm not sure that this isn't what his talent level really is; needs a full-time job in mlb to find out

Prior - hard to say he didn't reach his potential. Just a damn shame that he got abused like that in his first full season

It'd be more accurate to say it's too bad Prior was so good in his first full season. If he wasn't so good, he night have been slowed down but teams dont' shelf their top pitchers during a pennant race due to age. He's not the first ever "abused" pitcher. Just recently Lincecum put up as many innings as Prior for a dead last team in the NL.

 

It's too bad Prior injured his shoulder in the Giles collision because that likely began the end of a certain stellar career.

[Outshined_One]

It's too bad Prior injured his shoulder in the Giles collision because that likely began the end of a certain stellar career.

 

I thought his career was over when he took that line drive off his throwing arm. I never thought he'd see a pitching mound again.

[fromthestretch]

It's too bad Prior injured his shoulder in the Giles collision because that likely began the end of a certain stellar career.

 

What's worse is that it appears no one really discovered the extent of the damage to his shoulder for quite some time. Had it been found and repaired sooner, he might be healthy now. Then again, shoulder injuries can be difficult to come back from, so who knows.

[davearm2]

It's too bad Prior injured his shoulder in the Giles collision because that likely began the end of a certain stellar career.

 

What's worse is that it appears no one really discovered the extent of the damage to his shoulder for quite some time. Had it been found and repaired sooner, he might be healthy now. Then again, shoulder injuries can be difficult to come back from, so who knows.

I strongly suspect whatever persistent shoulder damage Prior suffered was a result of the repetitive stress of pitching, not from the Giles collision.

[The Other 15]

It's too bad Prior injured his shoulder in the Giles collision because that likely began the end of a certain stellar career.

 

What's worse is that it appears no one really discovered the extent of the damage to his shoulder for quite some time. Had it been found and repaired sooner, he might be healthy now. Then again, shoulder injuries can be difficult to come back from, so who knows.

I strongly suspect whatever persistent shoulder damage Prior suffered was a result of the repetitive stress of pitching, not from the Giles collision.

Then every pitcher with 300 ip (or so) should be injured too, right?