Michael Wuertz traded to A's for 2 minor leaguers (p. 2)

[jersey cubs fan]

Sellers, a 23 year-old infielder, ranked 14th in the '08 Handbook. He was described as "a solid-average defender who'll hit at the bottom of a lineup."

So what's the difference between a solid-average defender and an average defender? lol

 

Perhaps a guy who is always average, as opposed to somebody who is occasionally average?

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Boy, nothing but glowing praise for these guys!

[Outshined_One]

Sellers could have been had by anyone in the Rule 5 draft, but no one picked him up.

 

Sounds like Robnett has a nice ceiling, but it sounds like he has a long way to go before becoming a legitimate prospect again.

[jersey cubs fan]

A baseball player in the oakland system whose biggest asset is power had a stomach tumor? I'm not sayin, I'm just sayin'.

[jersey cubs fan]

Sellers could have been had by anyone in the Rule 5 draft, but no one picked him up.

 

Sounds like Robnett has a nice ceiling, but it sounds like he has a long way to go before becoming a legitimate prospect again.

 

And virtually no time to get there. I just realized it's weird that guys born in the mid-80's are now approaching ancient prospect status.

[Outshined_One]

Sellers could have been had by anyone in the Rule 5 draft, but no one picked him up.

 

Sounds like Robnett has a nice ceiling, but it sounds like he has a long way to go before becoming a legitimate prospect again.

 

And virtually no time to get there. I just realized it's weird that guys born in the mid-80's are now approaching ancient prospect status.

 

The stomach tumor thing gives me some hope that he could make a turnaround and recover, but honestly, I don't have much faith in it happening. Frankly, if you're a prospect with a plate discipline problem, this is the wrong system for you.

[The Other 15]

 

I checked with the Cubs today. Guzman is indeed out of options.

 

With Wuertz gone, there's room for guzman now. Assuming Heilman is the 5th starter, the bullpen could be:

 

Marshall, Cotts, Gaudin, Vizcaino, Guzman, Gregg, Marmol

 

 

Man, that looks like a pretty shaky bullpen.

It looks very similar to last years.

 

Last year had the benefit of keeping Marmol as an anytime guy. Going in Howry and Eyre were a bit more dependable than guys like Vizaino and Cotts. And Wuertz is better than a couple of those guys as well. They've lost Wood and Wuertz and added Vizcaino and Gregg. I say that's a downgrade. Plus, last year's bullpen got the surprise addition of Samardzija, which they are very much unlikely to get this year.

We saw how "Going in Howry and Eyre were a bit more dependable than guys like Vizaino and Cotts" worked out. We still don't know that Marmol wont be the anytime guy, Gregg is not very different than Wood as closer (Where is it written that Wood has no chance to put up worse numbers and Gregg has no chance to put up better ones?) and Samarzija is still there to be used if the need arises like last year. We can talk about possible downgrades all we like, but all things being equal (they never are, but still,...) the bullpen is very similar to last seasons.

[nilodnayr]

Ok, so this is about the twelve thousandth place I've seen that Gooz is out of options...is everyone in the world wrong?

Guzman was granted another medical exemption and has an option remaining.

 

 

I know I've seen that here by the most reputable posters, you, Navin, etc, but its disheartening that even cubs.com disagrees.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081214&content_id=3717139&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc&partnerId=rss_chc

 

It is Muskat, but still...I haven't been able to find any links confirming Guzman was granted an extra option year.

 

I checked with the Cubs today. Guzman is indeed out of options.

 

Thanks Bruce!!!

[KingCubsFan]

Another dumb move by Hendry. What a terrible offseason. Leave it to Hendry to find ways of making this team worse.

He just traded a reliever who spent half the year in AAA and makes over a million dollars for two players who were Top 30 prospects a year ago. I think Guzman can replace Wuertz

[erik316wttn]

 

I checked with the Cubs today. Guzman is indeed out of options.

 

With Wuertz gone, there's room for guzman now. Assuming Heilman is the 5th starter, the bullpen could be:

 

Marshall, Cotts, Gaudin, Vizcaino, Guzman, Gregg, Marmol

 

 

Man, that looks like a pretty shaky bullpen.

It looks very similar to last years.

 

Last year had the benefit of keeping Marmol as an anytime guy. Going in Howry and Eyre were a bit more dependable than guys like Vizaino and Cotts. And Wuertz is better than a couple of those guys as well. They've lost Wood and Wuertz and added Vizcaino and Gregg. I say that's a downgrade. Plus, last year's bullpen got the surprise addition of Samardzija, which they are very much unlikely to get this year.

We saw how "Going in Howry and Eyre were a bit more dependable than guys like Vizaino and Cotts" worked out. We still don't know that Marmol wont be the anytime guy, Gregg is not very different than Wood as closer (Where is it written that Wood has no chance to put up worse numbers and Gregg has no chance to put up better ones?) and Samarzija is still there to be used if the need arises like last year. We can talk about possible downgrades all we like, but all things being equal (they never are, but still,...) the bullpen is very similar to last seasons.

 

I just hope Marmol isn't shoehorned into the closer's role. He gave us far more benefit when he came into the game in a tough situation and got us out of it. Let Gregg or whoever close. Just about anyone can do that. It would be a tremendous waste of Marmol's abilities to make him the closer for this team.

 

But I bet you that's what happens.

[jersey cubs fan]

We saw how "Going in Howry and Eyre were a bit more dependable than guys like Vizaino and Cotts" worked out. We still don't know that Marmol wont be the anytime guy, Gregg is not very different than Wood as closer (Where is it written that Wood has no chance to put up worse numbers and Gregg has no chance to put up better ones?) and Samarzija is still there to be used if the need arises like last year. We can talk about possible downgrades all we like, but all things being equal (they never are, but still,...) the bullpen is very similar to last seasons.

 

Nothing is written in stone, but it seems to me it's fairly obvious they've down graded from what they had to what they have.

[erik316wttn]

We saw how "Going in Howry and Eyre were a bit more dependable than guys like Vizaino and Cotts" worked out. We still don't know that Marmol wont be the anytime guy, Gregg is not very different than Wood as closer (Where is it written that Wood has no chance to put up worse numbers and Gregg has no chance to put up better ones?) and Samarzija is still there to be used if the need arises like last year. We can talk about possible downgrades all we like, but all things being equal (they never are, but still,...) the bullpen is very similar to last seasons.

 

Nothing is written in stone, but it seems to me it's fairly obvious they've down graded from what they had to what they have.

 

Not just in the bullpen, either. We've downgraded with just about every transaction this year, with the exception of Bradley. It's like Hendry is tanking on purpose.

[jersey cubs fan]

Another dumb move by Hendry. What a terrible offseason. Leave it to Hendry to find ways of making this team worse.

He just traded a reliever who spent half the year in AAA and makes over a million dollars for two players who were Top 30 prospects a year ago. I think Guzman can replace Wuertz

 

Because the manager inexplicably hated him while he didn't mind throwing crappy Howry out there every day.

 

Completely meaningless since they have sucked throughout their minor league careers and are not rated now.

[jersey cubs fan]

We saw how "Going in Howry and Eyre were a bit more dependable than guys like Vizaino and Cotts" worked out. We still don't know that Marmol wont be the anytime guy, Gregg is not very different than Wood as closer (Where is it written that Wood has no chance to put up worse numbers and Gregg has no chance to put up better ones?) and Samarzija is still there to be used if the need arises like last year. We can talk about possible downgrades all we like, but all things being equal (they never are, but still,...) the bullpen is very similar to last seasons.

 

Nothing is written in stone, but it seems to me it's fairly obvious they've down graded from what they had to what they have.

 

Not just in the bullpen, either. We've downgraded with just about every transaction this year, with the exception of Bradley. It's like Hendry is tanking on purpose.

 

It's not really tanking. The downgrades haven't been all that huge, the annoying thing is that there are just so many of them.

[cubsfan26]

 

I checked with the Cubs today. Guzman is indeed out of options.

 

With Wuertz gone, there's room for guzman now. Assuming Heilman is the 5th starter, the bullpen could be:

 

Marshall, Cotts, Gaudin, Vizcaino, Guzman, Gregg, Marmol

 

 

Man, that looks like a pretty shaky bullpen.

It looks very similar to last years.

 

 

I don't really think it looks all that shakey, and if you swap Gaudin for Heilman it could look really strong. Marmol will often have 4 or 5 out saves, so him moving to closer won't effect the pen as much as people think. Kevin Gregg will be solid in the 7th and 8th, and if you put Heilman in the 7th and 8th I think it looks good. Especially if Guzman pitches like he can if healthy. Even if Gaudin is in the pen, I'm still fine with him as a 7th inning reliever, since I expect him to pitch like he did in 06 out of the pen, and how he did the first four and half months last season out of the pen. I don't think Vizcaino vs RH and Cotts vs LH in the 6th and 7th is horrible either. The Cubs now opened two spots on their 40 man roster now, so I expect Hendry to add a bench player, and possibly another starter.

[cubsfan26]

We saw how "Going in Howry and Eyre were a bit more dependable than guys like Vizaino and Cotts" worked out. We still don't know that Marmol wont be the anytime guy, Gregg is not very different than Wood as closer (Where is it written that Wood has no chance to put up worse numbers and Gregg has no chance to put up better ones?) and Samarzija is still there to be used if the need arises like last year. We can talk about possible downgrades all we like, but all things being equal (they never are, but still,...) the bullpen is very similar to last seasons.

 

Nothing is written in stone, but it seems to me it's fairly obvious they've down graded from what they had to what they have.

 

Not just in the bullpen, either. We've downgraded with just about every transaction this year, with the exception of Bradley. It's like Hendry is tanking on purpose.

 

 

Calling these moves downgrades is based off opinion only. Most likely, fans on this board will be wrong about half of these moves anyways. Just think over the years, how many times have you thought a move wasn't good or a downgrade, and were wrong. From reading your posts, I believe that happens here and there.

Edited February 2, 2009 by cubsfan26

[UMFan83]

I don't mind this move. Relievers are a dime a dozen, and Wuertz is not a known quantity on a year to year basis, is making over $1m, and is in Lou's inescapable doghouse. I liked Wuertz, but he's replicable.

 

I know the people we are trading are out of options, but I wonder if theres a larger idea behind all this reshuffling. It seems like the prospects we are acquiring are barely better than sending them to spring training and seeing if they can make the roster, and if not dumping them.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

I know the people we are trading are out of options, but I wonder if theres a larger idea behind all this reshuffling. It seems like the prospects we are acquiring are barely better than sending them to spring training and seeing if they can make the roster, and if not dumping them.

Have them all change their names and trick San Diego into trading Peavy for them!

[treebird]

if you can only keep guzman or wuertz, and trading either will result in getting junk back, don't you have to keep wuertz? i mean, what's the likelihood that guzman both stays healthy and is effective?

[Outshined_One]

I know the people we are trading are out of options, but I wonder if theres a larger idea behind all this reshuffling. It seems like the prospects we are acquiring are barely better than sending them to spring training and seeing if they can make the roster, and if not dumping them.

Have them all change their names and trick San Diego into trading Peavy for them!

 

I like this idea. I always wanted Jason Heyward in our system!

[Sweet Swinging Billy]

I'm really disappointed in this trade. The Cubs should have gotten a better return for Wuertz. I know this move frees up money and I don't know what he's asking but maybe the Cubs should entertain the idea of signing Juan Cruz?

[MixmastaMiguel]

Another dumb move by Hendry. What a terrible offseason. Leave it to Hendry to find ways of making this team worse.

He just traded a reliever who spent half the year in AAA and makes over a million dollars for two players who were Top 30 prospects a year ago. I think Guzman can replace Wuertz

 

I believe they were top 30 prospects in the Oakland A's system, not the whole major leagues. I still think it's a fine trade though. Wuertz was out of options and I would rather have Guzman on this team, he has more upside. I would still like to see Vizcaino go.

[Outshined_One]

Anyone else think the Heilman trade made Wuertz expendable?

[jersey cubs fan]

Calling these moves downgrades is based off opinion only.

 

No, it's based off stats. You may be of the opinon that stats don't matter. But if you had one guy put up X numbers the previous year, and replaced him with a guy that typically puts up less than X, people are going to be disappointed.

[Mephistopheles]

Anyone else think the Heilman trade made Wuertz expendable?

 

It doesn't matter. We still have Michael Wuertz on our roster, only his name is Kevin Gregg.