Pie traded to Baltimore for Olson and minor leaguer

[17 Seconds]

oh and during those stretched, patterson drew 99 walks to pie's 101

 

no similarities here

[sneakypower]

oh and during those stretched, patterson drew 99 walks to pie's 101

 

no similarities here

tell me about the batted ball types of each player that caused the significant gap in avg, while you're on a roll.

 

also a little unsure why you left out a player's best season, since it's more recent and of better predictive value. but i agree with your second point. i guess they look a little bit similar.

[SouthSideRyan]

Everyone likes to forget that Corey was above average for a season and a half in '03-'04 before he utterly collapsed in '05 too. Not saying Pie is Corey, those comparisons always pissed me off, just saying Corey Patterson isn't this pox on baseball that everyone wants to make him out as.

[17 Seconds]

oh and during those stretched, patterson drew 99 walks to pie's 101

 

no similarities here

tell me about the batted ball types of each player that caused the significant gap in avg, while you're on a roll.

 

also a little unsure why you left out a player's best season, since it's more recent and of better predictive value. but i agree with your second point. i guess they look a little bit similar.

 

you said it yourself-

 

compare both players performance at the same age, at the same levels and you've got really no similarities

 

pie's best season was at age 22. patterson was playing his first full season with the cubs at 22, so we can't compare that. you said compare them at the same age and same levels, so that's what i did.

 

i really don't understand why we keep bringing up average. we're talking aout contact, we're not talking about the result of that contact. batting average has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation. we're arguing whether or not he's a contact hitter, not whether or not he's a contact hitter who makes the most of that contact.

[17 Seconds]

Everyone likes to forget that Corey was above average for a season and a half in '03-'04 before he utterly collapsed in '05 too. Not saying Pie is Corey, those comparisons always pissed me off, just saying Corey Patterson isn't this pox on baseball that everyone wants to make him out as.

 

i'm not comparing them i terms of who is a better player though. i'm just comparing their 2 obvious similarities.... walks, and strikeouts.... since that's what we're discussing.

[sneakypower]

i really don't understand why we keep bringing up average. we're talking aout contact, we're not talking about the result of that contact. batting average has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation. we're arguing whether or not he's a contact hitter, not whether or not he's a contact hitter who makes the most of that contact.

then that's a really pointless argument

 

i'm not comparing them i terms of who is a better player though. i'm just comparing their 2 obvious similarities.... walks, and strikeouts.... since that's what we're discussing.

Justin Morneau is comparable to Chone Figgins, by your weird specifications. the futility of this is giving me a migraine.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Pie before he was relegated to the bench: 4 for 26, 0 XBH, 0 BB, 10 K

 

Edmonds' start in a Cubs uniform: 3 for 24, 0 XBH, 1 BB, 3 K

[SouthSideRyan]

Pie before he was relegated to the bench: 4 for 26, 0 XBH, 0 BB, 10 K

 

Edmonds' start in a Cubs uniform: 3 for 24, 0 XBH, 1 BB, 3 K

 

Pie went on to OPS ~730 after that start, while never getting consistent playing time.

[swordsman]

Pie before he was relegated to the bench: 4 for 26, 0 XBH, 0 BB, 10 K

 

Edmonds' start in a Cubs uniform: 3 for 24, 0 XBH, 1 BB, 3 K

 

 

Are you saying those two are similar? Isn't there a significant difference in evaluating those lines in relation to the strikeouts? All else being equal (which is the case here at least in the stats listed) I thought making contact was better than not.

[SouthSideRyan]

Pie before he was relegated to the bench: 4 for 26, 0 XBH, 0 BB, 10 K

 

Edmonds' start in a Cubs uniform: 3 for 24, 0 XBH, 1 BB, 3 K

 

 

Are you saying those two are similar? Isn't there a significant difference in evaluating those lines in relation to the strikeouts? All else being equal (which is the case here at least in the stats listed) I thought making contact was better than not.

 

Not the type of contact Edmonds was making. In that first couple week stretch, Edmonds looked just as pathetic as people say Pie did.

 

EDITED: to remove snark

Edited January 20, 2009 by SouthSideRyan

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Pie before he was relegated to the bench: 4 for 26, 0 XBH, 0 BB, 10 K

 

Edmonds' start in a Cubs uniform: 3 for 24, 0 XBH, 1 BB, 3 K

 

 

Are you saying those two are similar? Isn't there a significant difference in evaluating those lines in relation to the strikeouts? All else being equal (which is the case here at least in the stats listed) I thought making contact was better than not.

 

I'm saying both are really awful, and banishing the younger, great fielding one while letting the older, crummy fielding one get the extended look is a poor decision.

[SouthSideRyan]

Pie before he was relegated to the bench: 4 for 26, 0 XBH, 0 BB, 10 K

 

Edmonds' start in a Cubs uniform: 3 for 24, 0 XBH, 1 BB, 3 K

 

Pie went on to OPS ~730 after that start, while never getting consistent playing time.

 

Sorry, 770ish. I don't know why, but I cut it off at his demotion before.

[CUBZ99]

Pie before he was relegated to the bench: 4 for 26, 0 XBH, 0 BB, 10 K

 

Edmonds' start in a Cubs uniform: 3 for 24, 0 XBH, 1 BB, 3 K

 

 

Are you saying those two are similar? Isn't there a significant difference in evaluating those lines in relation to the strikeouts? All else being equal (which is the case here at least in the stats listed) I thought making contact was better than not.

 

I'm saying both are really awful, and banishing the younger, great fielding one while letting the older, crummy fielding one get the extended look is a poor decision.

 

Edmonds went on to put up a .937 OPS with the Cubs. It turns out it was a pretty good decision. Now if Hendry can sprinkle some magic pixie dust on Fukudome and Gathright this year, the Cubs will be golden.

[swordsman]

Pie before he was relegated to the bench: 4 for 26, 0 XBH, 0 BB, 10 K

 

Edmonds' start in a Cubs uniform: 3 for 24, 0 XBH, 1 BB, 3 K

 

 

Are you saying those two are similar? Isn't there a significant difference in evaluating those lines in relation to the strikeouts? All else being equal (which is the case here at least in the stats listed) I thought making contact was better than not.

 

I'm saying both are really awful, and banishing the younger, great fielding one while letting the older, crummy fielding one get the extended look is a poor decision.

 

 

But wasn't the fact that Edmonds was making contact a reason to give him the benefit of the doubt that he would more likely come out of his funk than Pie?

[Mephistopheles]

and then edmonds went off.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Pie before he was relegated to the bench: 4 for 26, 0 XBH, 0 BB, 10 K

 

Edmonds' start in a Cubs uniform: 3 for 24, 0 XBH, 1 BB, 3 K

 

 

Are you saying those two are similar? Isn't there a significant difference in evaluating those lines in relation to the strikeouts? All else being equal (which is the case here at least in the stats listed) I thought making contact was better than not.

 

I'm saying both are really awful, and banishing the younger, great fielding one while letting the older, crummy fielding one get the extended look is a poor decision.

 

 

But wasn't the fact that Edmonds was making contact a reason to give him the benefit of the doubt that he would more likely come out of his funk than Pie?

 

Yep. 26 PAs or no, a nearly 40% K rate is concerning.

[BigbadB]

I will agree with most that Pie was never really given a real shot of winning an everyday job. However, he also never showed that he could hit a major league breaking ball.

[17 Seconds]

I will agree with most that Pie was never really given a real shot of winning an everyday job. However, he also never showed that he could hit a major league breaking ball.

 

he was never given the chance to adjust

[BigbadB]

I will agree with most that Pie was never really given a real shot of winning an everyday job. However, he also never showed that he could hit a major league breaking ball.

 

he was never given the chance to adjust

 

Read your PM's.

[17 Seconds]

I will agree with most that Pie was never really given a real shot of winning an everyday job. However, he also never showed that he could hit a major league breaking ball.

 

he was never given the chance to adjust

 

Read your PM's.

 

My PMs haven't worked for a while

[BigbadB]

I will agree with most that Pie was never really given a real shot of winning an everyday job. However, he also never showed that he could hit a major league breaking ball.

 

he was never given the chance to adjust

 

Read your PM's.

 

My PMs haven't worked for a while

 

I guess I'll just have to share what I have to say to you with everyone.

 

This is a discussion board, not an argument board. If you can't find a better way of DISCUSSING baseball, you will not be long for this place. Everything has to be a huge argument with you, and it really needs to stop.

 

You've been warned enough times already to tone it down. I'm not sure how many more times you will get.

[imb]

how can you get on a guy for arguing a point he believes in? whether his point is right or wrong, he hasn't broken any rules.

[Tyrant]

Pie before he was relegated to the bench: 4 for 26, 0 XBH, 0 BB, 10 K

 

Edmonds' start in a Cubs uniform: 3 for 24, 0 XBH, 1 BB, 3 K

 

 

Are you saying those two are similar? Isn't there a significant difference in evaluating those lines in relation to the strikeouts? All else being equal (which is the case here at least in the stats listed) I thought making contact was better than not.

 

Edmonds had previously been good in the majors before. Granted, he had sucked something terrible earlier in the season in San Diego, but at least there was evidence he could hit at the major league level.

[sethuel1]

OH! Oh! I'm sorry! This is abuse!

[BigbadB]

how can you get on a guy for arguing a point he believes in? whether his point is right or wrong, he hasn't broken any rules.

 

I can count at least 2 broken rules in the following post, but thanks for caring. I always know I can count on you, IMB.

 

Did you even read the thread or are you just trying to be a dick?

 

So I question why somebody says they're giving Vitters no chance at being great, and suddenly I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing and I'm being an ass or something. Okay, whatever. It's just a copout because he realized he said something that didn't make sense, so he tries to make it into me being a douchebag or something instead of talking about that.

 

I'd say the people who have me on ignore are probably people who have said dumbass things. Sorry if you're one of those people.