Pie traded to Baltimore for Olson and minor leaguer

[Illini Iceman]

Everybody on orioleshangout is pumped up about the trade and raving about Pie. Kinda funny

 

They should be excited. I think Pie can develop into a good player provided he gets an extended opportunity.

 

I am not sure that an extended opportunity against AL East pitching bodes well for Pie.

[Tyrant]

And the Cubs were up about 48 games on the Brewers last year, there was no reason Pie couldn't have stayed in CF and the 8 hole for 130 games last year. Granted, I would have missed out on my manlove for Jim Edmonds, but it was a really dumb decision and pretty typical for the Cubs.

 

How was it dumb to platoon two decent players for a full season and get great production from the CF slot? If anything, using a platoon like that to such great effect was pretty atypical for the Cubs.

[17 Seconds]

And the Cubs were up about 48 games on the Brewers last year, there was no reason Pie couldn't have stayed in CF and the 8 hole for 130 games last year. Granted, I would have missed out on my manlove for Jim Edmonds, but it was a really dumb decision and pretty typical for the Cubs.

 

How was it dumb to platoon two decent players for a full season and get great production from the CF slot? If anything, using a platoon like that to such great effect was pretty atypical for the Cubs.

 

Well they gave up on Pie before anybody knew they'd get freakish production from Edmonds

[Tyrant]

And the Cubs were up about 48 games on the Brewers last year, there was no reason Pie couldn't have stayed in CF and the 8 hole for 130 games last year. Granted, I would have missed out on my manlove for Jim Edmonds, but it was a really dumb decision and pretty typical for the Cubs.

 

How was it dumb to platoon two decent players for a full season and get great production from the CF slot? If anything, using a platoon like that to such great effect was pretty atypical for the Cubs.

 

Well they gave up on Pie before anybody knew they'd get freakish production from Edmonds

 

Or, it was obvious that Pie wasn't going to be able to contribute offensively in 2008, so they looked elsewhere for production.

[jersey cubs fan]

And the Cubs were up about 48 games on the Brewers last year, there was no reason Pie couldn't have stayed in CF and the 8 hole for 130 games last year. Granted, I would have missed out on my manlove for Jim Edmonds, but it was a really dumb decision and pretty typical for the Cubs.

 

How was it dumb to platoon two decent players for a full season and get great production from the CF slot? If anything, using a platoon like that to such great effect was pretty atypical for the Cubs.

 

Well they gave up on Pie before anybody knew they'd get freakish production from Edmonds

 

Or, it was obvious that Pie wasn't going to be able to contribute offensively in 2008, so they looked elsewhere for production.

 

Personally I don't see how that was obvious. Guys struggle early, develop and improve. Pie has a track record of adjusting to higher levels with playing time.

[CUBZ99]

And the Cubs were up about 48 games on the Brewers last year, there was no reason Pie couldn't have stayed in CF and the 8 hole for 130 games last year. Granted, I would have missed out on my manlove for Jim Edmonds, but it was a really dumb decision and pretty typical for the Cubs.

 

How was it dumb to platoon two decent players for a full season and get great production from the CF slot? If anything, using a platoon like that to such great effect was pretty atypical for the Cubs.

 

Well they gave up on Pie before anybody knew they'd get freakish production from Edmonds

 

Or, it was obvious that Pie wasn't going to be able to contribute offensively in 2008, so they looked elsewhere for production.

 

Personally I don't see how that was obvious. Guys struggle early, develop and improve. Pie has a track record of adjusting to higher levels with playing time.

 

O's fans say the same thing about Olson. They say that he is dominant once he adjusts to the new league. I'm guessing that is one of the reasons that the Pad's may want him. Petco would be a great park to pitch half your games in.

[17 Seconds]

And the Cubs were up about 48 games on the Brewers last year, there was no reason Pie couldn't have stayed in CF and the 8 hole for 130 games last year. Granted, I would have missed out on my manlove for Jim Edmonds, but it was a really dumb decision and pretty typical for the Cubs.

 

How was it dumb to platoon two decent players for a full season and get great production from the CF slot? If anything, using a platoon like that to such great effect was pretty atypical for the Cubs.

 

Well they gave up on Pie before anybody knew they'd get freakish production from Edmonds

 

Or, it was obvious that Pie wasn't going to be able to contribute offensively in 2008, so they looked elsewhere for production.

 

It was obvious by those whole 30 PAs that he struggled in to start the season? In has last 40 PAs before Edmonds took his place and Pie was sent back to AAA, he went .286/.350/.400. He was improving.

 

I'm not a Pie fan at all, but the dude was never given a chance in 2008.

[CUBZ99]

And the Cubs were up about 48 games on the Brewers last year, there was no reason Pie couldn't have stayed in CF and the 8 hole for 130 games last year. Granted, I would have missed out on my manlove for Jim Edmonds, but it was a really dumb decision and pretty typical for the Cubs.

 

How was it dumb to platoon two decent players for a full season and get great production from the CF slot? If anything, using a platoon like that to such great effect was pretty atypical for the Cubs.

 

Well they gave up on Pie before anybody knew they'd get freakish production from Edmonds

 

Or, it was obvious that Pie wasn't going to be able to contribute offensively in 2008, so they looked elsewhere for production.

 

It was obvious by those whole 30 PAs that he struggled in to start the season? In has last 40 PAs before Edmonds took his place and Pie was sent back to AAA, he went .286/.350/.400. He was improving.

 

I'm not a Pie fan at all, but the dude was never given a chance in 2008.

 

I'm a huge Pie fan, but last year Jim Edmonds and Reed Johnson put up monster numbers in CF. I'm not opposed to playing for the moment and trying to win now, which is exactly what the Cubs did. This year Hendry had to get somebody decent to play RF, he went out and got the AL league leader in several offensive categories in 2008. That left him with a $12MM Fukudome to either back up or play CF. There was no room for Pie on this year's team. Hopefully, Pie gets a chance to play with the O's and becomes a great player. But with all three OF's signed for at least the next 3 years, there was no room for him with the Cubs.

[biittner77]

I'm a huge Pie fan, but last year Jim Edmonds and Reed Johnson put up monster numbers in CF. I'm not opposed to playing for the moment and trying to win now, which is exactly what the Cubs did. This year Hendry had to get somebody decent to play RF, he went out and got the AL league leader in several offensive categories in 2008. That left him with a $12MM Fukudome to either back up or play CF. There was no room for Pie on this year's team. Hopefully, Pie gets a chance to play with the O's and becomes a great player. But with all three OF's signed for at least the next 3 years, there was no room for him with the Cubs.

 

Of course, had they played Pie last year he might have developed enough to make signing Bradley unneccessary. Had they given Pie a real chance he may have shown enough to where they could trade him and get much more value in return.

 

That being said, the Cubs handling of Pie last year had more to do with off the field issues than anything else.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

That being said, the Cubs handling of Pie last year had more to do with off the field issues than anything else.

 

Weren't the off field issues after he was essentially dumped?

[SouthSideRyan]

Nobody would've had a problem with the Cubs trading for CF help in July if Pie still played as he did. The issue that we all have is that the Cubs offense had a stud offense last year and a team that was coasting from June on. It'd be hard to find a better way to give a young player a chance to grow into a position than the '08 Cubs, but in their standard Cubly way, they cut bait on a player because he wasn't Albert Pujols in his first 50 ABs.

[MPC]

 

That being said, the Cubs handling of Pie last year had more to do with off the field issues than anything else.

 

Weren't the off field issues after he was essentially dumped?

 

I think he enjoyed visiting Rush Street after games a bit much according to some.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

That being said, the Cubs handling of Pie last year had more to do with off the field issues than anything else.

 

Weren't the off field issues after he was essentially dumped?

 

I think he enjoyed visiting Rush Street after games a bit much according to some.

 

This is always the story we hear about guys that struggle, but guys who do well have the same after hours plans.

[CUBZ99]

I'm a huge Pie fan, but last year Jim Edmonds and Reed Johnson put up monster numbers in CF. I'm not opposed to playing for the moment and trying to win now, which is exactly what the Cubs did. This year Hendry had to get somebody decent to play RF, he went out and got the AL league leader in several offensive categories in 2008. That left him with a $12MM Fukudome to either back up or play CF. There was no room for Pie on this year's team. Hopefully, Pie gets a chance to play with the O's and becomes a great player. But with all three OF's signed for at least the next 3 years, there was no room for him with the Cubs.

 

Of course, had they played Pie last year he might have developed enough to make signing Bradley unneccessary. Had they given Pie a real chance he may have shown enough to where they could trade him and get much more value in return.

 

That being said, the Cubs handling of Pie last year had more to do with off the field issues than anything else.

 

I understand that, but hindsight being 20/20 Hendry actually made the right call last year for last year's season. It would be hard to imagine that Pie could have come close to the Edmonds/Johnson platoon. Hendry made a great (albeit lucky) move by picking up Edmonds.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm a huge Pie fan, but last year Jim Edmonds and Reed Johnson put up monster numbers in CF. I'm not opposed to playing for the moment and trying to win now, which is exactly what the Cubs did. This year Hendry had to get somebody decent to play RF, he went out and got the AL league leader in several offensive categories in 2008. That left him with a $12MM Fukudome to either back up or play CF. There was no room for Pie on this year's team. Hopefully, Pie gets a chance to play with the O's and becomes a great player. But with all three OF's signed for at least the next 3 years, there was no room for him with the Cubs.

 

Of course, had they played Pie last year he might have developed enough to make signing Bradley unneccessary. Had they given Pie a real chance he may have shown enough to where they could trade him and get much more value in return.

 

That being said, the Cubs handling of Pie last year had more to do with off the field issues than anything else.

 

I understand that, but hindsight being 20/20 Hendry actually made the right call last year for last year's season. It would be hard to imagine that Pie could have come close to the Edmonds/Johnson platoon. Hendry made a great (albeit lucky) move by picking up Edmonds.

 

Pie didn't need to match Edmonds/Reed's offensive #s to be comparable because he had a big defensive advantage. Even considering defense, he didn't need to match their value because him being a league average player for us last year would be a better scenario than what Edmonds/Reed gave us last year because we'd have Pie for a long time for very little. You have to have cheap players somewhere, and the Cubs never even gave a chance to one of their best chances.

[CUBZ99]

I'm a huge Pie fan, but last year Jim Edmonds and Reed Johnson put up monster numbers in CF. I'm not opposed to playing for the moment and trying to win now, which is exactly what the Cubs did. This year Hendry had to get somebody decent to play RF, he went out and got the AL league leader in several offensive categories in 2008. That left him with a $12MM Fukudome to either back up or play CF. There was no room for Pie on this year's team. Hopefully, Pie gets a chance to play with the O's and becomes a great player. But with all three OF's signed for at least the next 3 years, there was no room for him with the Cubs.

 

Of course, had they played Pie last year he might have developed enough to make signing Bradley unneccessary. Had they given Pie a real chance he may have shown enough to where they could trade him and get much more value in return.

 

That being said, the Cubs handling of Pie last year had more to do with off the field issues than anything else.

 

I understand that, but hindsight being 20/20 Hendry actually made the right call last year for last year's season. It would be hard to imagine that Pie could have come close to the Edmonds/Johnson platoon. Hendry made a great (albeit lucky) move by picking up Edmonds.

 

Pie didn't need to match Edmonds/Reed's offensive #s to be comparable because he had a big defensive advantage. Even considering defense, he didn't need to match their value because him being a league average player for us last year would be a better scenario than what Edmonds/Reed gave us last year because we'd have Pie for a long time for very little. You have to have cheap players somewhere, and the Cubs never even gave a chance to one of their best chances.

 

The goal of the GM is to put the best possible team on the field within the resources that he has. Last year Edmonds/Reed was a great combo in CF. Sure Hendry has to look toward the future, but as the 2004 team knows even the best laid plans can lead to failure. The Cubs are not a lower salary bracket team. They have great resources that should field a competitive team year in and year out.

 

Its unfortunate what happened to Pie, but I don't fault Hendry for doing everything possible to try to win now. At some point there has to be personal responsibility on the players part. Had Pie started hot one of the last two spring trainings or during his call ups, the Cubs would probably still have him.

 

In regard to cheap players, their roster is loaded with cheap players. Theriot, Fontenot, Soto, Marshall, Hoffpaiur, Shark, Guzman, Gathright, Cedeno, Wuertz, . If anything Hendry has done a nice job at bringing up role players to supplement the roster well.

[sneakypower]

thank you SSR, i feel like i'm taking crazy pills

 

Felix proved beyond a shadow of a doubt with his first 15 ABs or whatever that he'd never be able to hit, but Edmonds 3 fer 97 start proved that he'd be a surefire source of production

 

asinine

[CUBZ99]

thank you SSR, i feel like i'm taking crazy pills

 

Felix proved beyond a shadow of a doubt with his first 15 ABs or whatever that he'd never be able to hit, but Edmonds 3 fer 97 start proved that he'd be a surefire source of production

 

asinine

 

Who is arguing that he proved he'd never be able to hit? or that he won't improve?

 

I'm arguing that based on the concrete stats that Edmonds/Reed put up last year, they were the better option. Sure it was a risky move by Hendry, but it paid off in spades for 2008.

[sneakypower]

could our season have possibly changed for the worse if Edmonds was never signed and Pie got a full chance to succeed? would we have won negative playoff games or had a 9 game swing to miss the playoffs?

 

now we're stuck back at square one: hoping that Fukudome instead learns how to hit. and he's 7 years older and 30 times the cost.

 

i'm not picking up on this paying off in spades you're talking about.

[davearm2]

could our season have possibly changed for the worse if Edmonds was never signed and Pie got a full chance to succeed? would we have won negative playoff games or had a 9 game swing to miss the playoffs?

 

now we're stuck back at square one: hoping that Fukudome instead learns how to hit. and he's 7 years older and 30 times the cost.

 

i'm not picking up on this paying off in spades you're talking about.

Point of reference here.

 

98: Cubs clinched by winning a 1-game playoff

03: Cubs clinched on the last weekend of the year

04: Cubs eliminated on the last weekend of the year

07: Cubs clinched on the last weekend of the year

 

I truly hope the Cubs' braintrust is not making playing time decisions on the presumption that the team will coast into the postseason, and therefore has the luxury of pissing away games while underproducing young players "get a full chance to succeed". Your 20/20 hindsight notwithstanding, they'd be utter fools to assume they've got a comfortable margin for error to work with.

[SouthSideRyan]

I really hope the Cubs aren't making decisions based on how good their team was 10 years ago.

[CUBZ99]

could our season have possibly changed for the worse if Edmonds was never signed and Pie got a full chance to succeed? would we have won negative playoff games or had a 9 game swing to miss the playoffs?

 

now we're stuck back at square one: hoping that Fukudome instead learns how to hit. and he's 7 years older and 30 times the cost.

 

i'm not picking up on this paying off in spades you're talking about.

 

a .937 OPS over more than half a season being paid major league minimum is quite the payoff.

[Tyrant]

could our season have possibly changed for the worse if Edmonds was never signed and Pie got a full chance to succeed? would we have won negative playoff games or had a 9 game swing to miss the playoffs?

 

I don't think the Cubs' flame-out in October should be used to criticize a decision that was made in April. That's a weird way to look at things.

 

Pie was completely overmatched at the beginning of the year. He could barely make contact with the baseball; even a mediocre breaking ball was an adventure for him. Once Lou saw that -- whether it was in 40 at bats or 400 -- he needed to pull the plug.

 

I think you're failing to draw a distinction between giving a player a chance to who looks like he could contribute, and just giving a guy a chance regardless of how he looked. Pie didn't show anything in the majors last year that indicated he should be given more at bats.

 

I've said it before: Lou has his faults, but judging talent isn't one of them. He does a pretty good job of slotting in the right guys to play.

[CubinNY]

could our season have possibly changed for the worse if Edmonds was never signed and Pie got a full chance to succeed? would we have won negative playoff games or had a 9 game swing to miss the playoffs?

 

I don't think the Cubs' flame-out in October should be used to criticize a decision that was made in April. That's a weird way to look at things.

 

Pie was completely overmatched at the beginning of the year. He could barely make contact with the baseball; even a mediocre breaking ball was an adventure for him. Once Lou saw that -- whether it was in 40 at bats or 400 -- he needed to pull the plug.

 

I think you're failing to draw a distinction between giving a player a chance to who looks like he could contribute, and just giving a guy a chance regardless of how he looked. Pie didn't show anything in the majors last year that indicated he should be given more at bats.

 

I've said it before: Lou has his faults, but judging talent isn't one of them. He does a pretty good job of slotting in the right guys to play.

 

Most guys don't come up from the minors and tear the cover off the ball. There is an adjustment period. If Lou cannot get over the adjustment period the prospect will have to be lucky to get an extended look.

 

Lou had a problem with in Pie ST b/c he wanted to fit him into the Juan Pierre mode-slap hit-bunter-speed guy instead of letting Pie be who he is.

[biittner77]

Edmonds would probably have still been available a couple weeks later. Piniella started Johnson against some very bleh RH pitchers when he could have put Pie in a position to succeed. The fact that he gave him so few PAs before banishing him to the doghouse makes no baseball sense.