Re: Peavy High on Cubs Wish List

[David]

And what did your "analysis" conclude for you?

 

He's worth about 3 more wins than Marquis for 2009, which could easily be made up by getting a real RFer via FA. So there's no need to commit long-term large money to a starting pitcher (rarely a good idea), let alone the prospects as well. And this is easily the best team in the division with only one of those upgrades, no need to do both.

 

If you honestly believe that Peavy is worth 3 more wins than Marquis in 2009, I have some property to sell you. Don't insult someone for analysis and then try to argue that Peavy is barely more valuable than Marquis.

 

30 runs difference in VORP in 2008 in thoroughly ordinary seasons for both of them.

 

Three wins isn't "barely," three wins is a lot.

 

Yea, it's funny how people probably misinterpret what you're saying and think that three wins is insignificant. For the Cubs, it may be. But a 3 win difference between two players is substantial.

 

That said, I am sort of in agreement with the argument that, with the playoffs being a virtual guarantee (assuming some unforeseen disaster which would mean we have much bigger problems), the essential difference is getting to start Peavy in a playoff game instead of Lilly or Dempster.

 

That said, I want Peavy and if we can get him after all this craziness, I'd do it (and I'm positive Hendry would, too). But we don't need to give up every single tradeable asset we have.

Edited December 11, 2008 by David

[jersey cubs fan]

Hey Deuce, your thoughts on Reed Johnson throwing out his back diving into first (and getting out by a hair when running past the bag would have made him safe and tied the game) in Tampa last June?

 

I seriously remember thinking when that happened "I am going to remember this moment in case I ever talk to Deucebaseman again"

 

What are your thoughts on Jason Kendall destroying his bone stepping on first?

[David]

Am I the only one who doesn't believe this guy is really DB or for real at all? Kinda seems like a prank (especially considering DB didn't last but 2 months or so here yet he claims to have been here for years).

 

Oh yeah, Peavy. I think we'll get him and I think what's holding it up right now is getting rid of Marquis and I would guess the issue of Vitters or Pie (and not both).

 

 

It could easily be that both DB and DB reincarnated are pranks. Funny ones, too.

[Banedon]

How am I a troll? I've been a member here for years. I used to go under DeuceBaseman but I got banned last year arquing with you idiots about how you guys thought Cedeno was better than Theriot and you guys thought Roberts wasnt worth Pie.

 

 

Wait. Aren't you the guy who advocates sliding headfirst, into first, because it's faster?

 

I can't speak for him, but I believe that to be the case also. I just think the danger of injury outweights the small amount of time gained.

 

But that argument has had its own thread, and lets not relive it here.

[David]

Thing is, if Peavy really wants to just come here and nowhere else, who is stopping him from completely playing hardball. What loyalty does he have to the Padres in this? He knows they have to move him. He knows the team sucks. He can tell them to screw off and only move him here if he wants. He doesn't have to help them in getting a better package.

 

That's if Peavy really only wants to come here.

[UMFan83]

Hey Deuce, your thoughts on Reed Johnson throwing out his back diving into first (and getting out by a hair when running past the bag would have made him safe and tied the game) in Tampa last June?

 

I seriously remember thinking when that happened "I am going to remember this moment in case I ever talk to Deucebaseman again"

 

What are your thoughts on Jason Kendall destroying his bone stepping on first?

 

Touche....but should he have slid headfirst into the base and gotten there later? I think it's worth the risk.

[Bote McBoteface]

How am I a troll? I've been a member here for years. I used to go under DeuceBaseman but I got banned last year arquing with you idiots about how you guys thought Cedeno was better than Theriot and you guys thought Roberts wasnt worth Pie.

 

 

Wait. Aren't you the guy who advocates sliding headfirst, into first, because it's faster?

 

 

No no, he conducted a scientific study involving college students and stopwatches to decide that sliding FOOT first into first base was faster than running through or going head first.

[Gmoney08]

Im not saying the deal is going to happen but am I the only one who doesnt believe the deal is dead?

[Keener98]

Thing is, if Peavy really wants to just come here and nowhere else, who is stopping him from completely playing hardball. What loyalty does he have to the Padres in this? He knows they have to move him. He knows the team sucks. He can tell them to screw off and only move him here if he wants. He doesn't have to help them in getting a better package.

 

That's if Peavy really only wants to come here.

 

Thats exactly what Peter Gammons said, and the exact reason why Gammons says Peavy will be a Cub by spring training.

[javy knows my name]

Am I the only one who doesn't believe this guy is really DB or for real at all? Kinda seems like a prank (especially considering DB didn't last but 2 months or so here yet he claims to have been here for years).

 

Oh yeah, Peavy. I think we'll get him and I think what's holding it up right now is getting rid of Marquis and I would guess the issue of Vitters or Pie (and not both).

 

 

It could easily be that both DB and DB reincarnated are pranks. Funny ones, too.

Sometimes I need to tell myself this just to preserve my faith in humanity

[UMFan83]

Im not saying the deal is going to happen but am I the only one who doesnt believe the deal is dead?

 

I think the majority of us believe the deal isn't dead. How alive it is though...that is where you will get a difference of opinion.

 

My chances of a deal by day:

 

Monday: 60%

Tuesday: 75%

Wednesday: 50%

Thursday (post talk is dead comments): 20%

Edited December 11, 2008 by UMFan83

[Derwood]

Thing is, if Peavy really wants to just come here and nowhere else, who is stopping him from completely playing hardball. What loyalty does he have to the Padres in this?

 

he's under contract. his "loyalty" is in honoring his commitment to the team.

[Sever82]

Committing $72 million to a pitcher with rumors of arm problems in exchange for your top prospect and the third-best 2b in the league last year is not a no-brainer.

 

Rumors of arm troubles? What are you talking about, just because he was on the DL last year doesn't mean he has arm troubles. The guys has pitched over 200 innings how many years? If he had a record like Harden than i would understand but i feel an argument like this is weak. I mean if you want to go there, you can say Vitters has Wrist Troubles cause he has had a record with his wrist.

 

Yes, you can and should mention Vitters' wrist.

 

Yes, going on the DL means arm problems. They didn't put him there to clear up a roster spot for Josh Banks. And the fact that Peavy's had so many consecutive seasons of big innings should make you more wary, not less.

 

I dont know, thats kind of a weak argument because you open up that statement to be applied to multiple pitchers. I mean you can say the same for CC, Big Z, Matt Cain, Santana, Dempster, etc. I dont think you can say someone has arm trouble or that the 200 inings should make you worried if they only visit the DL like once or twice. I mean Peavy could end up having surgery or on the DL or even never visiting the DL again, you dont know because he doesn't have a track record of having elbow or shoulder problems.

[Hall7810]

Thing is, if Peavy really wants to just come here and nowhere else, who is stopping him from completely playing hardball. What loyalty does he have to the Padres in this?

 

he's under contract. his "loyalty" is in honoring his commitment to the team.

 

Manny Ramirez says hi.

[Cubswin11]

Thing is, if Peavy really wants to just come here and nowhere else, who is stopping him from completely playing hardball. What loyalty does he have to the Padres in this? He knows they have to move him. He knows the team sucks. He can tell them to screw off and only move him here if he wants. He doesn't have to help them in getting a better package.

 

That's if Peavy really only wants to come here.

 

Thats exactly what Peter Gammons said, and the exact reason why Gammons says Peavy will be a Cub by spring training.

Not trying to be a d-bag here, I think this Peavy stuff is a lot more legit and likely possible to happen still, but wasn't Brian Roberts supposed to be a Cub by ST?

[ChiCubsFan]

Thing is, if Peavy really wants to just come here and nowhere else, who is stopping him from completely playing hardball. What loyalty does he have to the Padres in this?

 

he's under contract. his "loyalty" is in honoring his commitment to the team.

 

which the pads may not be able to allow him to do

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I dont know, thats kind of a weak argument because you open up that statement to be applied to multiple pitchers. I mean you can say the same for CC, Big Z, Matt Cain, Santana, Dempster, etc. I dont think you can say someone has arm trouble or that the 200 inings should make you worried if they only visit the DL like once or twice. I mean Peavy could end up having surgery or on the DL or even never visiting the DL again, you dont know because he doesn't have a track record of having elbow or shoulder problems.

 

Yes, you are correct. This argument can and should be extended to say that it's almost never a good idea to commit big money long-term to a starting pitcher.

[JeffH]

The deal won't really be completely dead until Hendry trades Marquis and replaces him with Randy Johnson. Even then, Hendry could probably open up a spot for Peavy by trading Rich Harden, but that seems unlikely.

 

Also, one could probably call the trade dead if Hendry were to trade Vitters somewhere else.

[fromthestretch]

Committing $72 million to a pitcher with rumors of arm problems in exchange for your top prospect and the third-best 2b in the league last year is not a no-brainer.

 

Rumors of arm troubles? What are you talking about, just because he was on the DL last year doesn't mean he has arm troubles. The guys has pitched over 200 innings how many years? If he had a record like Harden than i would understand but i feel an argument like this is weak. I mean if you want to go there, you can say Vitters has Wrist Troubles cause he has had a record with his wrist.

 

Yes, you can and should mention Vitters' wrist.

 

Yes, going on the DL means arm problems. They didn't put him there to clear up a roster spot for Josh Banks. And the fact that Peavy's had so many consecutive seasons of big innings should make you more wary, not less.

 

I dont know, thats kind of a weak argument because you open up that statement to be applied to multiple pitchers. I mean you can say the same for CC, Big Z, Matt Cain, Santana, Dempster, etc. I dont think you can say someone has arm trouble or that the 200 inings should make you worried if they only visit the DL like once or twice. I mean Peavy could end up having surgery or on the DL or even never visiting the DL again, you dont know because he doesn't have a track record of having elbow or shoulder problems.

 

Didn't he miss some time earlier in his career due to arm issues? I may be mistaken, but I don't believe 2008 was the first time he had some arm problems.

[Cubswin11]

Im not saying the deal is going to happen but am I the only one who doesnt believe the deal is dead?

 

I think the majority of us believe the deal isn't dead. How alive it is though...that is where you will get a difference of opinion.

 

My chances of a deal by day:

 

Monday: 60%

Tuesday: 75%

Wednesday: 50%

Thursday (post talk is dead comments): 20%

So you're saying there's a chance?

[muntjack]

Committing $72 million to a pitcher with rumors of arm problems in exchange for your top prospect and the third-best 2b in the league last year is not a no-brainer.

 

 

 

Acquiring a perennial Cy Young candidate for a guy in A ball with wrist problems and a utility man with a career 97 OPS + is a no-brainer.

 

See what I did there?

[BigbadB]

Thing is, if Peavy really wants to just come here and nowhere else, who is stopping him from completely playing hardball. What loyalty does he have to the Padres in this?

 

he's under contract. his "loyalty" is in honoring his commitment to the team.

 

Except for the fact that it wasn't Peavy demanding a trade, but rather the other way around. That kind of shoots loyalty in the ass.

[RyneDawson]

How am I a troll? I've been a member here for years. I used to go under DeuceBaseman but I got banned last year arquing with you idiots about how you guys thought Cedeno was better than Theriot and you guys thought Roberts wasnt worth Pie.

 

 

Wait. Aren't you the guy who advocates sliding headfirst, into first, because it's faster?

 

sliding feet first...

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Committing $72 million to a pitcher with rumors of arm problems in exchange for your top prospect and the third-best 2b in the league last year is not a no-brainer.

 

 

 

Acquiring a perennial Cy Young candidate for a guy in A ball with wrist problems and a utility man with a career 97 OPS + is a no-brainer.

 

See what I did there?

 

Used an analogous but incorrect argument? yes, we all saw it.

[Sever82]

Thing is, if Peavy really wants to just come here and nowhere else, who is stopping him from completely playing hardball. What loyalty does he have to the Padres in this? He knows they have to move him. He knows the team sucks. He can tell them to screw off and only move him here if he wants. He doesn't have to help them in getting a better package.

 

That's if Peavy really only wants to come here.

 

Wow this is a shallow way to look at things. Peavy has only had one GM and thats Towers. We dont know what kind of relationship he has with Towers. The way you are describing the situation its like saying if Wood wanted to go to the Yankees when he was a FA, do you honestly think Wood would've told Hendry screw this trade me to the yankees. Unlike some people, Peavy probably feels he owes it to the Padres to help them out a little. Just because Peavy doesn't speak up and say screw this trade me, doesn't me he wants to be a Cub. Its not a question about Loyalty, its a question about professionalism and respect.