Re: Peavy High on Cubs Wish List

[jersey cubs fan]

A ton of question marks in that rotation. If Harden goes down and Dempster starts sucking, we suddenly have one high 3's ERA guy and a bunch of low to mid 4's ERA guys. Unimpressive.

 

#-o

 

lol so basically it's like... if two of our 3 best starters suck and/or get hurt, our rotation is questionable.

 

cool..

 

Except one is a lock to get hurt and the other is a very good bet to take a significant step backward.

 

Are you advocating the 8 for 1 trade of Peavy?

 

I don't know what 8 for 1 trade was on the table, but I couldn't care less if somebody wanted quantity from this organization. Take it. They aren't going to be difference makers. What I am advocating is the Cubs actually improving their team, which they have not yet done.

[abuck1220]

A ton of question marks in that rotation. If Harden goes down and Dempster starts sucking, we suddenly have one high 3's ERA guy and a bunch of low to mid 4's ERA guys. Unimpressive.

 

#-o

 

lol so basically it's like... if two of our 3 best starters suck and/or get hurt, our rotation is questionable.

 

cool..

 

Except one is a lock to get hurt and the other is a very good bet to take a significant step backward.

 

Are you advocating the 8 for 1 trade of Peavy?

 

who cares how many players were involved? are we really that concerned that kevin hart can't be replaced?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

But given that I agree the rotation has a chance to step back, I think the offense with a real RFer will be more than enough to win 90+ games with a merely decent rotation, and this division is awful, and there's a chance for the rotation to be much better than decent.

[Rob]

Ok, if the rumors are true, and Towers was asking for six or seven players...

 

DeRosa, Marshall, Vitters, Pie, Cedeno, Hart and Guzman have all been repeatedly connected to this deal. If that's actually the deal, I'm inclined to think Hendry did the right thing by stepping away.

[Post Count Padder]

2:56pm: Tim Brown and Gordon Edes say the Cubs "remain optimistic that they can acquire Peavy, all but ignored Towers' self-imposed deadline."

[fromthestretch]

I would love to trade Derosa this year to get younger.

 

He's a 34 year old coming off a career year and while the manager is willing to play him everywhere, he's not particularly good at any of his positions (the Macias effect). Plus, he's about the most replacable starter on the team.

 

 

If that many teams are actually showing interest in him, it could be a good time to deal him. The more bidders, the better the return could possibly be. If the Cubs can get a decent right-handed bat to play 2B against right-handers (or get an upgrade at shortstop and make Theriot the right side of a platoon at 2B), they aren't going to lose much production there.

[jersey cubs fan]

But given that I agree the rotation has a chance to step back, I think the offense with a real RFer will be more than enough to win 90+ games with a merely decent rotation, and this division is awful, and there's a chance for the rotation to be much better than decent.

 

I have my doubts that any improvement in RF will offset what will surely be a significant decrease in CF.

[BigbadB]

A ton of question marks in that rotation. If Harden goes down and Dempster starts sucking, we suddenly have one high 3's ERA guy and a bunch of low to mid 4's ERA guys. Unimpressive.

 

#-o

 

lol so basically it's like... if two of our 3 best starters suck and/or get hurt, our rotation is questionable.

 

cool..

 

Except one is a lock to get hurt and the other is a very good bet to take a significant step backward.

 

Are you advocating the 8 for 1 trade of Peavy?

 

I don't know what 8 for 1 trade was on the table, but I couldn't care less if somebody wanted quantity from this organization. Take it. They aren't going to be difference makers. What I am advocating is the Cubs actually improving their team, which they have not yet done.

 

Why trade 8 when you can trade 5 or 6, and then use the 7th and 8th players in trade to improve elsewhere? Why give in to a GM that has basically no leverage?

[Roast]

2:56pm: Tim Brown and Gordon Edes say the Cubs "remain optimistic that they can acquire Peavy, all but ignored Towers' self-imposed deadline."

Greeaaat. here we go again.

 

 

I chose to believe the deal is off, however. makes it easier to stomach.

[17 Seconds]

But given that I agree the rotation has a chance to step back, I think the offense with a real RFer will be more than enough to win 90+ games with a merely decent rotation, and this division is awful, and there's a chance for the rotation to be much better than decent.

 

I have my doubts that any improvement in RF will offset what will surely be a significant decrease in CF.

 

Not to mention that DeRosa and Theriot will each probably take a step back

[abuck1220]

But given that I agree the rotation has a chance to step back, I think the offense with a real RFer will be more than enough to win 90+ games with a merely decent rotation, and this division is awful, and there's a chance for the rotation to be much better than decent.

 

last year's not-so-good rf is now in cf, so the new rf is going to have to outproduce 2007 edmonds if you want to see improvement. i'm not so sure 120 games of bradley is going to do that.

[cubsfan26]

Seriously though, I can't believe I'm the only one who isn't sold on the rotation as is. What happens if Harden goes down (and he will) and Dempster goes back to the way he's pitched his entire career? Suddenly that rotation looks pretty awful, and those 2 things are not unlikely to happen.

 

No one would rather have Randy Johnson than Jake Peavy. But a rotation of Zambrano, Harden, Lilly, Dempster, Johnson with Marshall as the 6th starter looks pretty good to me.

 

A ton of question marks in that rotation. If Harden goes down and Dempster starts sucking, we suddenly have one high 3's ERA guy and a bunch of low to mid 4's ERA guys. Unimpressive.

 

 

You can say that kind of stuff about just about any rotation. You could say Dempster will be much worse, and Harden might miss more starts then last year. But how do you know that Zambrano and Lilly can't have better era's next year. Plus having a guy with a high 3's and a bunch of low to mid 4's is pretty simliar to most teams rotations around the league. Adding Peavy doesn't make that big of difference if those issues are still here. Especially if you don't have Marshall to fill in for Harden or whoever else is hurt. Not to mention not having depth postion player wise, or prospects to make other good deals. Hendry made the right move here, getting Peavy would have weaken the Cubs too much depth wise.

[nilodnayr]

Agent: 'Padres asked for too much' for Peavy

 

By Phil Rogers

 

LAS VEGAS -– Barry Aexelrod, the agent for Jake Peavy, doesn't sound like a guy who wants his client to stay put.

 

His take on the Cubs' decision to break off talks is that San Diego Padres' general manager Kevin Towers was unrealistic in his trade demands. He reportedly wanted top prospect Josh Vitters and pitchers Sean Marshall and Angel Guzman, among others, from the Cubs.

 

"Objectively understanding where you stand with your negotiation position helps you to be successful," Axelrod told Tim Sullivan of the San Diego Union-Tribune. "The Padres asked for too much."

 

More Axelrod: "There might have been four or five total teams in baseball [that could assume Peavy's contract]. ... The powers that be are going to have to be a little more objective about their strength in negotiating."

 

While Towers is saying that Peavy will open 2009 with the Padres, Axelrod expects more trade talks this winter. He has mentioned the San Francisco Giants and New York Yankees as other possibilities, in addition to a possible renewal of talks with the Cubs.

 

Cubs GM Jim Hendry had been asked earlier about the possibility of the talks being revisited after the end of the winter meetings.

 

"No idea," Hendry said.

 

The ball's clearly in the Padres' hands.

 

Towers is a greedy SOB! lol

 

And now we know why Axelrod didn't carpool back with Towers.

[cubsfan26]

Ok, if the rumors are true, and Towers was asking for six or seven players...

 

DeRosa, Marshall, Vitters, Pie, Cedeno, Hart and Guzman have all been repeatedly connected to this deal. If that's actually the deal, I'm inclined to think Hendry did the right thing by stepping away.

 

 

Yes thats way too much for one player, even if it's an elite pitcher like Peavy.

[abuck1220]

Ok, if the rumors are true, and Towers was asking for six or seven players...

 

DeRosa, Marshall, Vitters, Pie, Cedeno, Hart and Guzman have all been repeatedly connected to this deal. If that's actually the deal, I'm inclined to think Hendry did the right thing by stepping away.

 

i would not miss any of those players.

[Cubswin11]

2:56pm: Tim Brown and Gordon Edes say the Cubs "remain optimistic that they can acquire Peavy, all but ignored Towers' self-imposed deadline."

I thought we'd at least be able to get through the weekend without a report about there still being a deal.

[17 Seconds]

You can say that kind of stuff about just about any rotation.

 

Not really. What contenders have a rotation whose second and third starters are that big of question marks? Harden isn't just a question mark, he's pretty much a lock to miss significant time. Dempster could very easily be a mid 4's ERA guy next season and it wouldn't (or shouldn't) really shock anyone.

 

But how do you know that Zambrano and Lilly can't have better era's next year.

 

Well nobody really "knows" anything, but Zambrano's number has been getting worse each year, not better. Also I'd say Lilly has pretty much maxed out his talent.

Edited December 11, 2008 by 17 Seconds

[David]

Towers has little to no leverage. People really need to stop acting like Hendry should've just taken his take it or leave it offer. Towers is in no position to back up any take it or leave it garbage. Saying the talks are over is a bluff, pure and simple.

[BigbadB]

Ok, if the rumors are true, and Towers was asking for six or seven players...

 

DeRosa, Marshall, Vitters, Pie, Cedeno, Hart and Guzman have all been repeatedly connected to this deal. If that's actually the deal, I'm inclined to think Hendry did the right thing by stepping away.

 

i would not miss any of those players.

 

Well, if that's the case, why don't we go ahead and throw in 10 more guys as well and REALLY make sure we get this deal done?

[abuck1220]

Ok, if the rumors are true, and Towers was asking for six or seven players...

 

DeRosa, Marshall, Vitters, Pie, Cedeno, Hart and Guzman have all been repeatedly connected to this deal. If that's actually the deal, I'm inclined to think Hendry did the right thing by stepping away.

 

 

Yes thats way too much for one player, even if it's an elite pitcher like Peavy.

 

come on. hart and cedeno are nobodies...they have no value at all. nearly every team has players like that sitting on their AAA roster. marshall is probably above average, derosa's 34, pie doesn't have a job for the next three seasons, guzman is obviously a huge injury risk, vitters is years away and already has health concerns. while big in numbers, that is not an overwhelming amount of talent.

[BigbadB]

What contenders have a rotation whose second and third starters are that big of question marks?

 

Umm. All of 'em.

[abuck1220]

Ok, if the rumors are true, and Towers was asking for six or seven players...

 

DeRosa, Marshall, Vitters, Pie, Cedeno, Hart and Guzman have all been repeatedly connected to this deal. If that's actually the deal, I'm inclined to think Hendry did the right thing by stepping away.

 

i would not miss any of those players.

 

Well, if that's the case, why don't we go ahead and throw in 10 more guys as well and REALLY make sure we get this deal done?

 

fine with me.

[jersey cubs fan]

Ok, if the rumors are true, and Towers was asking for six or seven players...

 

DeRosa, Marshall, Vitters, Pie, Cedeno, Hart and Guzman have all been repeatedly connected to this deal. If that's actually the deal, I'm inclined to think Hendry did the right thing by stepping away.

 

i would not miss any of those players.

 

Well, if that's the case, why don't we go ahead and throw in 10 more guys as well and REALLY make sure we get this deal done?

 

Why are you so hung up on quantity? They aren't good players. If you are offering the core, what difference does it make who the 7th and 8th guys are.

[cubsfan26]

But given that I agree the rotation has a chance to step back, I think the offense with a real RFer will be more than enough to win 90+ games with a merely decent rotation, and this division is awful, and there's a chance for the rotation to be much better than decent.

 

 

Yeah unless were hit with a ton of injuries, this team is a 90 plus win team again. Bradley production or whoever will be better then Edmonds when you factor in AB's and games. Plus lets not forget Soriano missed 50 games last year, with mostly a freak injury. Having him for more games will also help, and make up some for DeRosa dropping off some power wise. As for Theriot I don't see a major decline I still think he hits 290s, 350s-360s with 720s or so OPS. This team might not be 33 games above 500 again next year, but I think we will easily be 18-20 games above 500.

[17 Seconds]

Because quantity matters? You can't just go throwing away every player you don't like. They still have value