Geovany Soto

[CuseCubFan69]

Imagine if Hendry traded Barrett while his value was high and brought Soto up?

[hawkeyecub]

It should at least be recognized and pointed out.

 

If it were any other position I would agree. But managers are often picky about catchers and when they have a "veteran, winning type player" who reportedly works very well with the pitchers and was producing pretty well offensively for a month.

 

I would bet that the majority of major league managers wouldn't have given Soto this much time. Yes he's forced the issue with his production and it's not like it's a calculated, brilliant decision by Lou. But it should be noted that he's done the right thing more often than not this year.

 

I think he's done a lot better lately, but gave a lot of vets a lot of playing time when they were playing really bad, and let the young guys rot on the bench. Murton, Pie, and Soto didn't get any significant playing time until just recently, and Pie still hasn't. Jacque, Floyd, Izturis, Koyie, Trachsel, Miller, and Monroe have all gotten far too much PT. Lou has corrected many of his mistakes though...that's where he beats out someone like Dusty, who just rides his mistakes into the ground.

 

I know that some of that has to do with Hendry handing him these players, and that he's had to make do. I recognize that, and I do give Lou credit for what he's done with this team. But he's had his fair share of mistakes this year. Waiting till now to unleash Soto is one of them.

 

I don't care what other managers would do. They'd be wrong too.

 

Well the last sentence just means that you choose to look at it with no perspective at all. Some of your playing time gripes are just ridiculous.

 

Monroe has gotten 46 plate appearances in the 30 games since being acquired.

 

Murton didn't get any significant time until recently? Really?

 

Jacque disappeared in the first half when he stunk. Lou went back to him after Felix struggled in June and Jacque got hot. He cooled down but he still has an .800 OPS in the second half and no one else could contribute that this year in CF.

 

Wade Miller had a total of 3 starts.

 

Izturis only got 50 PA's in the 24 April games. In May his production wasn't much off of what Theriot has done (.350 OBP). Following that in his last 44 games on the roster he got 69 AB's.

 

On the contrary Pie got 44 PA's in his first 12 games here. He had 100 PA's in June. That's not significant playing time? That's much more than the guys who you claim got too much time and it was 4th most on the team in June.

 

You're always going to have non-productive players getting time, especially when your roster consists of what we had at C, SS and the outfield. Guys have to fail before they get their time taken away. Then in most cases, when someone produced he kept them in the lineup.

[Peoriaman]

It should at least be recognized and pointed out.

 

If it were any other position I would agree. But managers are often picky about catchers and when they have a "veteran, winning type player" who reportedly works very well with the pitchers and was producing pretty well offensively for a month.

 

I would bet that the majority of major league managers wouldn't have given Soto this much time. Yes he's forced the issue with his production and it's not like it's a calculated, brilliant decision by Lou. But it should be noted that he's done the right thing more often than not this year.

 

I think he's done a lot better lately, but gave a lot of vets a lot of playing time when they were playing really bad, and let the young guys rot on the bench. Murton, Pie, and Soto didn't get any significant playing time until just recently, and Pie still hasn't. Jacque, Floyd, Izturis, Koyie, Trachsel, Miller, and Monroe have all gotten far too much PT. Lou has corrected many of his mistakes though...that's where he beats out someone like Dusty, who just rides his mistakes into the ground.

 

I know that some of that has to do with Hendry handing him these players, and that he's had to make do. I recognize that, and I do give Lou credit for what he's done with this team. But he's had his fair share of mistakes this year. Waiting till now to unleash Soto is one of them.

 

I don't care what other managers would do. They'd be wrong too.

 

Well the last sentence just means that you choose to look at it with no perspective at all. Some of your playing time gripes are just ridiculous.

 

Monroe has gotten 46 plate appearances in the 30 games since being acquired.

 

Murton didn't get any significant time until recently? Really?

 

Jacque disappeared in the first half when he stunk. Lou went back to him after Felix struggled in June and Jacque got hot. He cooled down but he still has an .800 OPS in the second half and no one else could contribute that this year in CF.

 

Wade Miller had a total of 3 starts.

 

Izturis only got 50 PA's in the 24 April games. In May his production wasn't much off of what Theriot has done (.350 OBP). Following that in his last 44 games on the roster he got 69 AB's.

 

On the contrary Pie got 44 PA's in his first 12 games here. He had 100 PA's in June. That's not significant playing time? That's much more than the guys who you claim got too much time and it was 4th most on the team in June.

 

You're always going to have non-productive players getting time, especially when your roster consists of what we had at C, SS and the outfield. Guys have to fail before they get their time taken away. Then in most cases, when someone produced he kept them in the lineup.

 

 

well said

[jersey cubs fan]

Jacque disappeared in the first half when he stunk. Lou went back to him after Felix struggled in June and Jacque got hot. He cooled down but he still has an .800 OPS in the second half and no one else could contribute that this year in CF.

.

 

Jacque didn't disappear from the lineup in the first half. He had about a 8 game streak where he sat. I find it interesting that you refer to his 800 OPS in the second half and then say nobody could contribute that this year in CF. Jacque's line is .274/.328/.385 for the season, that's the line that matters. Plus, his post ASB OPS is below 800 now.

[TruffleShuffle]

After much searching I found the Blanco re-signs thread. Quite a few Soto comments in there, though not as much freaking out as I rememberred. I did mention how I lost all my optimism in teh offseason though, and how I wanted nothing to do with Bengie Molina.

 

viewtopic.php?t=36657&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

yeah but seriously, 90% of the people in that thread thought the signing was completely ridiculous.

[Pushfrog98]

If I could have a superpower it would be: to control minds

 

interesting

 

He made you type that

 

And he made you type that, too!

my mind == blown away.

[TruffleShuffle]

After much searching I found the Blanco re-signs thread. Quite a few Soto comments in there, though not as much freaking out as I rememberred. I did mention how I lost all my optimism in teh offseason though, and how I wanted nothing to do with Bengie Molina.

 

viewtopic.php?t=36657&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

yeah but seriously, 90% of the people in that thread thought the signing was completely ridiculous.

 

my first 2007 post of soto/blanco angst came after soto's walkoff on 4/30

 

Soto continues to hit fairly well at AAA, and I continue to become more pissed off at the decision to sign Blanco for 2 years and $5.25M. Jim Hendry really needs to be sent to the unemployment line.

[CubmanPi]

If I could have a superpower it would be: to control minds

 

interesting

 

He made you type that

 

And he made you type that, too!

my mind == blown away.

Whoa.

 

 

http://zulfiqar.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/neo_whoa_1.jpg

[Banedon]

It should at least be recognized and pointed out.

 

If it were any other position I would agree. But managers are often picky about catchers and when they have a "veteran, winning type player" who reportedly works very well with the pitchers and was producing pretty well offensively for a month.

 

I would bet that the majority of major league managers wouldn't have given Soto this much time. Yes he's forced the issue with his production and it's not like it's a calculated, brilliant decision by Lou. But it should be noted that he's done the right thing more often than not this year.

 

I think he's done a lot better lately, but gave a lot of vets a lot of playing time when they were playing really bad, and let the young guys rot on the bench. Murton, Pie, and Soto didn't get any significant playing time until just recently, and Pie still hasn't. Jacque, Floyd, Izturis, Koyie, Trachsel, Miller, and Monroe have all gotten far too much PT. Lou has corrected many of his mistakes though...that's where he beats out someone like Dusty, who just rides his mistakes into the ground.

 

I know that some of that has to do with Hendry handing him these players, and that he's had to make do. I recognize that, and I do give Lou credit for what he's done with this team. But he's had his fair share of mistakes this year. Waiting till now to unleash Soto is one of them.

 

I don't care what other managers would do. They'd be wrong too.

 

Well the last sentence just means that you choose to look at it with no perspective at all. Some of your playing time gripes are just ridiculous.

 

Monroe has gotten 46 plate appearances in the 30 games since being acquired.

 

Murton didn't get any significant time until recently? Really?

 

Jacque disappeared in the first half when he stunk. Lou went back to him after Felix struggled in June and Jacque got hot. He cooled down but he still has an .800 OPS in the second half and no one else could contribute that this year in CF.

 

Wade Miller had a total of 3 starts.

 

Izturis only got 50 PA's in the 24 April games. In May his production wasn't much off of what Theriot has done (.350 OBP). Following that in his last 44 games on the roster he got 69 AB's.

 

On the contrary Pie got 44 PA's in his first 12 games here. He had 100 PA's in June. That's not significant playing time? That's much more than the guys who you claim got too much time and it was 4th most on the team in June.

 

You're always going to have non-productive players getting time, especially when your roster consists of what we had at C, SS and the outfield. Guys have to fail before they get their time taken away. Then in most cases, when someone produced he kept them in the lineup.

 

The point of my last sentence is simply this. If someone does something badly, I'm not going to be giddy with someone that does it less badly. Maybe you are. That's fine. I'm not.

 

Look I'm not trying to bash Lou. I think he's done a reasonably good job with this team this year. But I do have gripes with some of his personnel decisions this year. You were obviously fine with Floyd and Jones getting playing time when they were struggling, and Murton sitting on the bench getting periodic playing time. I wasn't. And yes, Murton hasn't gotten regular playing time until this past month. Before that it was highly erratic.

 

I agree, Miller was probably a bad choice for me to point out, and Izturis did go away, so I'm willing to concede those points.

 

Pie had 87 PA's in June. Jones and Pagan combined for 91 PA's in June. So Pie got less than half the total PT as Jones and Pagan. So Lou didn't exactly let him get steady playing time. Instead he broke it up into a couple games on then a couple games off. He had no rhythm. Jacque was flat out terrible in June. And Pagan is not someone in the Cubs future. It just didn't make a lot of long term sense.

 

I agree, that Lou is a lot better at letting players earn their spots, but he was slow to pull the trigger in some instances in this season, and I happen to think they were mistakes and cost the Cubs.

 

(FYI, I'm not complaining about what Jacque has done in the second half. But the Cubs were about to trade him away, so they thought he was toast too. So it's not like it was amazing foresight on Lou's part to let him stick it out.)

[Peoriaman]

I haven't read this whole thread, but Soto's power numbers out of nowhere make me suspicious. I hope I am wrong.

[hawkeyecub]

Jacque disappeared in the first half when he stunk. Lou went back to him after Felix struggled in June and Jacque got hot. He cooled down but he still has an .800 OPS in the second half and no one else could contribute that this year in CF.

.

 

Jacque didn't disappear from the lineup in the first half. He had about a 8 game streak where he sat. I find it interesting that you refer to his 800 OPS in the second half and then say nobody could contribute that this year in CF. Jacque's line is .274/.328/.385 for the season, that's the line that matters. Plus, his post ASB OPS is below 800 now.

 

He started 6 games out of 25 heading into the All-Star Break. Two of those 6 starts were in an AL park where we had Floyd as the DH. He became the 4th OF at best and "disappeared" was hyperbole.

 

As far as his production, I'm not trying to pump him up. My point was clear. He was benched in favor of Pagan and Pie for about a month. When they didn't produce very well, he was given another chance after the All-Star break and started semi-regularly for the rest of July. He was adequte compared to the alternatives and then had a .900 OPS in August so he stayed in there.

 

As far as the last line, yeah it's below .800 now. It's .795, which clearly changes everything. Thank God we got that straightened out.

Regardless my point was that his second half production (when he became a full-time starter again) is probably the best we could have gotten from our options this year.

[Vanilla Ice]

After much searching I found the Blanco re-signs thread. Quite a few Soto comments in there, though not as much freaking out as I rememberred. I did mention how I lost all my optimism in teh offseason though, and how I wanted nothing to do with Bengie Molina.

 

viewtopic.php?t=36657&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

There was also a lot of whining about DeRosa on that thread, we got the signing of Blanco right.

 

However, Hendry made a good signing in DeRosa even though the message board fans did not think so.

[TruffleShuffle]

After much searching I found the Blanco re-signs thread. Quite a few Soto comments in there, though not as much freaking out as I rememberred. I did mention how I lost all my optimism in teh offseason though, and how I wanted nothing to do with Bengie Molina.

 

viewtopic.php?t=36657&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

There was also a lot of whining about DeRosa on that thread, we got the signing of Blanco right.

 

However, Hendry made a good signing in DeRosa even though the message board fans did not think so.

 

some of us did think so :D

[CubColtPacer]

It should at least be recognized and pointed out.

 

If it were any other position I would agree. But managers are often picky about catchers and when they have a "veteran, winning type player" who reportedly works very well with the pitchers and was producing pretty well offensively for a month.

 

I would bet that the majority of major league managers wouldn't have given Soto this much time. Yes he's forced the issue with his production and it's not like it's a calculated, brilliant decision by Lou. But it should be noted that he's done the right thing more often than not this year.

 

I think he's done a lot better lately, but gave a lot of vets a lot of playing time when they were playing really bad, and let the young guys rot on the bench. Murton, Pie, and Soto didn't get any significant playing time until just recently, and Pie still hasn't. Jacque, Floyd, Izturis, Koyie, Trachsel, Miller, and Monroe have all gotten far too much PT. Lou has corrected many of his mistakes though...that's where he beats out someone like Dusty, who just rides his mistakes into the ground.

 

I know that some of that has to do with Hendry handing him these players, and that he's had to make do. I recognize that, and I do give Lou credit for what he's done with this team. But he's had his fair share of mistakes this year. Waiting till now to unleash Soto is one of them.

 

I don't care what other managers would do. They'd be wrong too.

 

Well the last sentence just means that you choose to look at it with no perspective at all. Some of your playing time gripes are just ridiculous.

 

Monroe has gotten 46 plate appearances in the 30 games since being acquired.

 

Murton didn't get any significant time until recently? Really?

 

Jacque disappeared in the first half when he stunk. Lou went back to him after Felix struggled in June and Jacque got hot. He cooled down but he still has an .800 OPS in the second half and no one else could contribute that this year in CF.

 

Wade Miller had a total of 3 starts.

 

Izturis only got 50 PA's in the 24 April games. In May his production wasn't much off of what Theriot has done (.350 OBP). Following that in his last 44 games on the roster he got 69 AB's.

 

On the contrary Pie got 44 PA's in his first 12 games here. He had 100 PA's in June. That's not significant playing time? That's much more than the guys who you claim got too much time and it was 4th most on the team in June.

 

You're always going to have non-productive players getting time, especially when your roster consists of what we had at C, SS and the outfield. Guys have to fail before they get their time taken away. Then in most cases, when someone produced he kept them in the lineup.

 

The point of my last sentence is simply this. If someone does something badly, I'm not going to be giddy with someone that does it less badly. Maybe you are. That's fine. I'm not.

 

Look I'm not trying to bash Lou. I think he's done a reasonably good job with this team this year. But I do have gripes with some of his personnel decisions this year. You were obviously fine with Floyd and Jones getting playing time when they were struggling, and Murton sitting on the bench getting periodic playing time. I wasn't. And yes, Murton hasn't gotten regular playing time until this past month. Before that it was highly erratic.

 

I agree, Miller was probably a bad choice for me to point out, and Izturis did go away, so I'm willing to concede those points.

 

Pie had 87 PA's in June. Jones and Pagan combined for 91 PA's in June. So Pie got less than half the total PT as Jones and Pagan. So Lou didn't exactly let him get steady playing time. Instead he broke it up into a couple games on then a couple games off. He had no rhythm. Jacque was flat out terrible in June. And Pagan is not someone in the Cubs future. It just didn't make a lot of long term sense.

 

I agree, that Lou is a lot better at letting players earn their spots, but he was slow to pull the trigger in some instances in this season, and I happen to think they were mistakes and cost the Cubs.

 

(FYI, I'm not complaining about what Jacque has done in the second half. But the Cubs were about to trade him away, so they thought he was toast too. So it's not like it was amazing foresight on Lou's part to let him stick it out.)

 

I agree with some of your point, but this isn't exactly correct. Pie didn't have a couple games on and then a couple games off. When he played, he tended to play in bunches.

 

He came up on June 3rd and started 9 games in a row, then sat one game, then started 10 more games in a row. After that, he only had 2 starts before he was sent down again. So Pie's time might have been limited overall, but he didn't get inconsistent time. Instead, he played a lot, got benched, then got sent down. This also follows the pattern of the first time he was up where he started 9 out of 12 games, then got benched and didn't start again before he got sent down.

 

As far as your first sentence, how else are we supposed to grade managers instead of on how other managers would do? I mean, we could say you shouldn't get giddy about a team that wins 95 games just because every other team in the league wins less. That is the same thing with managers-Lou has done more right than wrong, and is a better manager than most. You have to evaluate him by what everyone else does, because if you evaluate him on a criterion standard everybody falls short.

[santoforhall]

I haven't read this whole thread, but Soto's power numbers out of nowhere make me suspicious. I hope I am wrong.

 

Listening to Stoney on the Score this morning, he seemed to be implying the same thing, saying he'd like to be on the same workout regimen Soto was on in the offseason.

 

It's hard not to raise your eyebrows a bit when a player equals his career totals in homeruns in one year Is there a minor league expert out there that may know if Soto changed his stroke this year, ala Sandberg, or if his power surge is attributed to weight loss, etc.

 

I love Soto and his current production, but it is difficult not to be skeptical on the means he might have pursued in order to do so.

[BigbadB]

All players go through power development changes, some faster than others.

[jersey cubs fan]

I haven't read this whole thread, but Soto's power numbers out of nowhere make me suspicious. I hope I am wrong.

 

Listening to Stoney on the Score this morning, he seemed to be implying the same thing, saying he'd like to be on the same workout regimen Soto was on in the offseason.

 

It's hard not to raise your eyebrows a bit when a player equals his career totals in homeruns in one year Is there a minor league expert out there that may know if Soto changed his stroke this year, ala Sandberg, or if his power surge is attributed to weight loss, etc.

 

I love Soto and his current production, but it is difficult not to be skeptical on the means he might have pursued in order to do so.

 

I don't think it's difficult to not be skeptical. He's hitting the age when power develops. He got himself into shape last offseason as well.

[jersey cubs fan]

As far as your first sentence, how else are we supposed to grade managers instead of on how other managers would do? I mean, we could say you shouldn't get giddy about a team that wins 95 games just because every other team in the league wins less. That is the same thing with managers-Lou has done more right than wrong, and is a better manager than most. You have to evaluate him by what everyone else does, because if you evaluate him on a criterion standard everybody falls short.

 

It's not the same thing with managers. Judging 95 wins as a good season is in no way shape or form similar to judging a manager as good by not making a stupid decision.

[Peoriaman]

All players go through power development changes, some faster than others.

 

One can only hope.

[David]

After much searching I found the Blanco re-signs thread. Quite a few Soto comments in there, though not as much freaking out as I rememberred. I did mention how I lost all my optimism in teh offseason though, and how I wanted nothing to do with Bengie Molina.

 

viewtopic.php?t=36657&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

There was also a lot of whining about DeRosa on that thread, we got the signing of Blanco right.

 

However, Hendry made a good signing in DeRosa even though the message board fans did not think so.

 

some of us did think so :D

 

I was always of the opinion that it was pretty likely that DeRosa had turned around his career last year and not just had a fluke season because there were actual reasons for his turnaround. He got consistent playing time and he made adjustments to his swing.

 

As Cubs fans, we've seen enough guys thrive after swing adjustments that we should understand (i.e. Sammy & DLee being major examples)...

 

Anyway, yea, not to toot my own horn, but I was never real down on the DeRosa signing. I saw him as a Todd Walker type hitter with versatility and more ability in the field.

[Bull]

I haven't read this whole thread, but Soto's power numbers out of nowhere make me suspicious. I hope I am wrong.

 

Listening to Stoney on the Score this morning, he seemed to be implying the same thing, saying he'd like to be on the same workout regimen Soto was on in the offseason.

 

It's hard not to raise your eyebrows a bit when a player equals his career totals in homeruns in one year Is there a minor league expert out there that may know if Soto changed his stroke this year, ala Sandberg, or if his power surge is attributed to weight loss, etc.

 

I love Soto and his current production, but it is difficult not to be skeptical on the means he might have pursued in order to do so.

 

I don't think it's difficult to not be skeptical. He's hitting the age when power develops. He got himself into shape last offseason as well.

 

I heard Stoney say that too, and i then repented for listening to the score.

 

Its bull. He lost weight, not gained it. He realized after six years, that his future could be different if he got into shape.

 

That said, I think he gets figured out by the league next year, and possibly in the playoffs against good pitching and with ALL the opponents' scouts watching him.

[BigbadB]

Miguel Cabrera hit 28 HR's in 1428 at bats during his entire minor league career.

 

Soto hit 25 HR's in 1574 at bats prior to his 2007 minor league season.

[David]

Miguel Cabrera hit 28 HR's in 1428 at bats during his entire minor league career.

 

Soto hit 25 HR's in 1574 at bats prior to his 2007 minor league season.

 

Wasn't Cabrera a young (for MiLB) teenager for most of those AB's, though? It's a little more understandable there. Not that I have any doubts about Soto, I'm just saying.

[CubinNY]

Miguel Cabrera hit 28 HR's in 1428 at bats during his entire minor league career.

 

Soto hit 25 HR's in 1574 at bats prior to his 2007 minor league season.

I'm hitting what you are pitching BBB but Cabrera also came up to the bigs when he was 20.

 

I don't like this automatic assumption that every players who had a good/great year is on the juice.

Edited September 25, 2007 by CubinNY

[Peoriaman]

Miguel Cabrera hit 28 HR's in 1428 at bats during his entire minor league career.

 

Soto hit 25 HR's in 1574 at bats prior to his 2007 minor league season.

I'm hitting what you are pitching BBB but Cabrera also came upt to the bigs when he was 20.

 

I don't like this automatic assumption that every players who had a good/great year is no the juice.

 

 

Unfortunately, that is part of the deal today. If Soto was a Cardinal, we would be buying into it.