Geovany Soto

[Soul]

His career does mean something, as well as how he has played since he got here. I can live with either, but it isn't as cut and dried as many think. Personally, I would always go with experience, esp at catcher, if it is close.

 

Even if the experience tells you definitively that you are playing one of the weakest defensive catchers in the league?

 

I'm not with you [-(

 

This year Barrett did worse than Kendall and I didn't see too many people yell about that and Barrett may be worse defensively than Kendall too.

 

Really? I saw tons of criticism over Barrett's play. Anyhow, if Barrett was playing like he did earlier and Soto was being left on the bench for reasons of grit, I feel certain I would feel the same way as I do now. Especially in late September.

[Soul]

Oh, and FWIW...Dusty Baker has a higher win% than Lou Piniella.

 

Yeah all those years in Tampa add up.....

[jjgman21]

His career does mean something, as well as how he has played since he got here. I can live with either, but it isn't as cut and dried as many think. Personally, I would always go with experience, esp at catcher, if it is close.

 

Even if the experience tells you definitively that you are playing one of the weakest defensive catchers in the league?

 

I'm not with you [-(

 

This year Barrett did worse than Kendall and I didn't see too many people yell about that and Barrett may be worse defensively than Kendall too.

 

the switch-a-roo so many have done on the need for defense out of catcher has been rather nauseating.

 

the benefit of defense out of a catcher was one of the most intense debates on this board in May, June, and July. Hendry acquires a catcher who's not too handy with the glove and arm, and suddenly there is no debate. suddenly everyone seems to agree that we need good defense out of our catcher.

[Peoriaman]

you will not be swayed on this, so we will agree to disagree.

 

Lou is one of the best managers in recent baseball history, so I will side with his judgment.

 

Pujols is one the best baseball players in recent baseball history too. But sometimes he strikes out, and sometimes he make an error.

 

 

I will let Pujols go to bat for me anytime and gladly accept the results.

 

I genuinely don't understand how you can look at the numbers that I posted, and dismiss them out of hand because of a blind faith in Lou. Sincerely, I don't understand it.

 

 

Not blind faith, but faith in a lifelong and very successfull baseball man. I am an anomaly of a fan---I generally believe that experts in their field--baseball managers--know more about the game than the casual fan--me. One thing I have learned about the internet fan---their arrogance re: their knowledge of sports is generally not justified.

 

It is no different here than in business---I trust my attorney and insurance guy to give me good advice. I simply don't know as much about these field as they do. I rely on them when I make decisions. My wife is a highly educated and accomplished musician, and I would never question her judgment when it comes to classical music or vocal performance. I trust the experts, because I realize they know more than I do.

 

I would add that you are looking at a very small sample size when you assume Soto will be the guy the last few games. If Soto had been doing this for longer at the MLB level, I think Lou would go with him.

Edited September 27, 2007 by Peoriaman

[Banedon]

Not blind faith, but faith in a lifelong and very successfull baseball man. I am an anomaly of a fan---I generally believe that experts in their field--baseball managers--know more about the game than the casual fan--me. One thing I have learned about the internet fan---their arrogance re: their knowledge of sports is generally not justified.

 

It is no different here than in business---I trust my attorney and insurance guy to give me good advice. I simply don't know as much about these field as they do. I rely on them when I make decisions.

 

I would add that you are looking at a very small sample size when you assume Soto will be the guy the last few games. If Soto had been doing this for longer at the MLB level, I think Lou would go with him.

 

But it is blind faith...you're ignoring the numbers and other factors other than Lou's opinion. It's the definition of blind faith.

 

And Lou has been riding the hot hand based on small sample sizes all season long. Even if Soto's just on a hot streak, and next season will just revert to being a crappy minor league catcher, why not ride out the hot streak? There's just no argument for this move that makes any sense. There isn't anything that Kendall does better than Soto. Other than be old.

 

If a doctor gives me a diagnosis, even if he knows more than me about the field, that doesn't mean I can't go and educate myself about what he's told me, and determine if I agree with what he said.

[Peoriaman]

Not blind faith, but faith in a lifelong and very successfull baseball man. I am an anomaly of a fan---I generally believe that experts in their field--baseball managers--know more about the game than the casual fan--me. One thing I have learned about the internet fan---their arrogance re: their knowledge of sports is generally not justified.

 

It is no different here than in business---I trust my attorney and insurance guy to give me good advice. I simply don't know as much about these field as they do. I rely on them when I make decisions.

 

I would add that you are looking at a very small sample size when you assume Soto will be the guy the last few games. If Soto had been doing this for longer at the MLB level, I think Lou would go with him.

 

But it is blind faith...you're ignoring the numbers and other factors other than Lou's opinion. It's the definition of blind faith.

 

And Lou has been riding the hot hand based on small sample sizes all season long. Even if Soto's just on a hot streak, and next season will just revert to being a crappy minor league catcher, why not ride out the hot streak? There's just no argument for this move that makes any sense. There isn't anything that Kendall does better than Soto. Other than be old.

 

If a doctor gives me a diagnosis, even if he knows more than me about the field, that doesn't mean I can't go and educate myself about what he's told me, and determine if I agree with what he said.

 

 

Not BLIND faith, but faith in an expert. If I relied on your analysis, that would be blind faith. No disrespect intended.

Edited September 27, 2007 by Peoriaman

[Peoriaman]

Not blind faith, but faith in a lifelong and very successfull baseball man. I am an anomaly of a fan---I generally believe that experts in their field--baseball managers--know more about the game than the casual fan--me. One thing I have learned about the internet fan---their arrogance re: their knowledge of sports is generally not justified.

 

It is no different here than in business---I trust my attorney and insurance guy to give me good advice. I simply don't know as much about these field as they do. I rely on them when I make decisions.

 

I would add that you are looking at a very small sample size when you assume Soto will be the guy the last few games. If Soto had been doing this for longer at the MLB level, I think Lou would go with him.

 

But it is blind faith...you're ignoring the numbers and other factors other than Lou's opinion. It's the definition of blind faith.

 

And Lou has been riding the hot hand based on small sample sizes all season long. Even if Soto's just on a hot streak, and next season will just revert to being a crappy minor league catcher, why not ride out the hot streak? There's just no argument for this move that makes any sense. There isn't anything that Kendall does better than Soto. Other than be old.

 

If a doctor gives me a diagnosis, even if he knows more than me about the field, that doesn't mean I can't go and educate myself about what he's told me, and determine if I agree with what he said.

 

 

This is America, you can always disagree, just admit to yourself that the doctor is an expert and you don't know as much as he does.

 

 

I think the call between Soto and Kendall is close, which is why he has been playing both quite a bit recently. I also suspect Soto will play some in our last 4 games.

Edited September 27, 2007 by Peoriaman

[CuseCubFan69]

His career does mean something, as well as how he has played since he got here. I can live with either, but it isn't as cut and dried as many think. Personally, I would always go with experience, esp at catcher, if it is close.

 

Even if the experience tells you definitively that you are playing one of the weakest defensive catchers in the league?

 

I'm not with you [-(

 

This year Barrett did worse than Kendall and I didn't see too many people yell about that and Barrett may be worse defensively than Kendall too.

 

Really? I saw tons of criticism over Barrett's play. Anyhow, if Barrett was playing like he did earlier and Soto was being left on the bench for reasons of grit, I feel certain I would feel the same way as I do now. Especially in late September.

 

There was criticism over his D but his bat kept a lot of posters on his side. I agree there's a + - on what to do but when I keep seeing that Kendall is the worst D Catcher while having an above average bat (for a catcher) while with the Cubs and Barrett was just as horrible or worse defensively and that was brushed aside while Barrett hit well, I just see a lot of contradiction there.

[Banedon]

Not blind faith, but faith in a lifelong and very successfull baseball man. I am an anomaly of a fan---I generally believe that experts in their field--baseball managers--know more about the game than the casual fan--me. One thing I have learned about the internet fan---their arrogance re: their knowledge of sports is generally not justified.

 

It is no different here than in business---I trust my attorney and insurance guy to give me good advice. I simply don't know as much about these field as they do. I rely on them when I make decisions.

 

I would add that you are looking at a very small sample size when you assume Soto will be the guy the last few games. If Soto had been doing this for longer at the MLB level, I think Lou would go with him.

 

But it is blind faith...you're ignoring the numbers and other factors other than Lou's opinion. It's the definition of blind faith.

 

And Lou has been riding the hot hand based on small sample sizes all season long. Even if Soto's just on a hot streak, and next season will just revert to being a crappy minor league catcher, why not ride out the hot streak? There's just no argument for this move that makes any sense. There isn't anything that Kendall does better than Soto. Other than be old.

 

If a doctor gives me a diagnosis, even if he knows more than me about the field, that doesn't mean I can't go and educate myself about what he's told me, and determine if I agree with what he said.

 

 

Not BLIND faith, but faith in an expert. If I relied on yyour analysis, that would be blind faith. No disrespect intended.

 

None taken, but I still disagree with your definition.

 

Main Entry: blind faith

Part of Speech: n

Definition: belief without true understanding, perception, or discrimination

 

It says nothing about expert opinion. The fact is that you're taking what Lou believes at face value without any kind of discrimination. That's blind faith.

 

Lawyer, Musician, Doctor, Insurance guy...whoever you consider an expert in their field...they make mistakes too. If I didn't do a critical analysis of advice that one of them gave me, I feel like I'd be making a mistake then.

[CubinNY]

Not blind faith, but faith in a lifelong and very successfull baseball man. I am an anomaly of a fan---I generally believe that experts in their field--baseball managers--know more about the game than the casual fan--me. One thing I have learned about the internet fan---their arrogance re: their knowledge of sports is generally not justified.

 

It is no different here than in business---I trust my attorney and insurance guy to give me good advice. I simply don't know as much about these field as they do. I rely on them when I make decisions.

 

I would add that you are looking at a very small sample size when you assume Soto will be the guy the last few games. If Soto had been doing this for longer at the MLB level, I think Lou would go with him.

 

But it is blind faith...you're ignoring the numbers and other factors other than Lou's opinion. It's the definition of blind faith.

 

And Lou has been riding the hot hand based on small sample sizes all season long. Even if Soto's just on a hot streak, and next season will just revert to being a crappy minor league catcher, why not ride out the hot streak? There's just no argument for this move that makes any sense. There isn't anything that Kendall does better than Soto. Other than be old.

 

If a doctor gives me a diagnosis, even if he knows more than me about the field, that doesn't mean I can't go and educate myself about what he's told me, and determine if I agree with what he said.

 

 

Not BLIND faith, but faith in an expert. If I relied on yyour analysis, that would be blind faith. No disrespect intended.

 

None taken, but I still disagree with your definition.

 

Main Entry: blind faith

Part of Speech: n

Definition: belief without true understanding, perception, or discrimination

 

It says nothing about expert opinion. The fact is that you're taking what Lou believes at face value without any kind of discrimination. That's blind faith.

 

Lawyer, Musician, Doctor, Insurance guy...whoever you consider an expert in their field...they make mistakes too. If I didn't do a critical analysis of advice that one of them gave me, I feel like I'd be making a mistake then.

I want to know how lou is an expert? Is it because he gets paid? Or is it becuase he played baseball?

[CuseCubFan69]

His career does mean something, as well as how he has played since he got here. I can live with either, but it isn't as cut and dried as many think. Personally, I would always go with experience, esp at catcher, if it is close.

 

Even if the experience tells you definitively that you are playing one of the weakest defensive catchers in the league?

 

I'm not with you [-(

 

This year Barrett did worse than Kendall and I didn't see too many people yell about that and Barrett may be worse defensively than Kendall too.

 

the switch-a-roo so many have done on the need for defense out of catcher has been rather nauseating.

 

the benefit of defense out of a catcher was one of the most intense debates on this board in May, June, and July. Hendry acquires a catcher who's not too handy with the glove and arm, and suddenly there is no debate. suddenly everyone seems to agree that we need good defense out of our catcher.

 

I agree that Soto is the best choice because he's better at both defense and hitting which I hope has been the argument and not the sudden focus on D.

[Peoriaman]

You always analyze what a expert tells you, but I think the call is close enough that I would side with the expert. It isn't like Lou is saying K Hill should be starting over Kendall or Soto. I just tend to trust what a extremely successful manager decides in this case. He simply knows a lot more than I do.

 

A caveat here is that I don't worship the numbers. I know some do. I trust this manager's baseball judgment.

[Banedon]

Let me use a different analogy. George Bush is President of the US. Does that make him an expert in politics? Does that mean I should question the decisions he makes in leading the country?

 

Please note, I'm not trying to start a political debate here. You can put any of the previous Presidents in there if it makes you feel better. I'm simply using the POTUS analogy here.

[Banedon]

A caveat here is that I don't worship the numbers. I know some do. I trust this manager's baseball judgment.

 

You should at least respect the numbers though...and they aren't close.

[Soul]

You always analyze what a expert tells you, but I think the call is close enough that I would side with the expert. It isn't like Lou is saying K Hill should be starting over Kendall or Soto. I just tend to trust what a extremely successful manager decides in this case. He simply knows a lot more than I do.

 

A caveat here is that I don't worship the numbers. I know some do. I trust this manager's baseball judgment.

 

Bah just cave in and admit it's stupid. :lol:

[Peoriaman]

Not blind faith, but faith in a lifelong and very successfull baseball man. I am an anomaly of a fan---I generally believe that experts in their field--baseball managers--know more about the game than the casual fan--me. One thing I have learned about the internet fan---their arrogance re: their knowledge of sports is generally not justified.

 

It is no different here than in business---I trust my attorney and insurance guy to give me good advice. I simply don't know as much about these field as they do. I rely on them when I make decisions.

 

I would add that you are looking at a very small sample size when you assume Soto will be the guy the last few games. If Soto had been doing this for longer at the MLB level, I think Lou would go with him.

 

But it is blind faith...you're ignoring the numbers and other factors other than Lou's opinion. It's the definition of blind faith.

 

And Lou has been riding the hot hand based on small sample sizes all season long. Even if Soto's just on a hot streak, and next season will just revert to being a crappy minor league catcher, why not ride out the hot streak? There's just no argument for this move that makes any sense. There isn't anything that Kendall does better than Soto. Other than be old.

 

If a doctor gives me a diagnosis, even if he knows more than me about the field, that doesn't mean I can't go and educate myself about what he's told me, and determine if I agree with what he said.

 

 

Not BLIND faith, but faith in an expert. If I relied on yyour analysis, that would be blind faith. No disrespect intended.

 

None taken, but I still disagree with your definition.

 

Main Entry: blind faith

Part of Speech: n

Definition: belief without true understanding, perception, or discrimination

 

It says nothing about expert opinion. The fact is that you're taking what Lou believes at face value without any kind of discrimination. That's blind faith.

 

Lawyer, Musician, Doctor, Insurance guy...whoever you consider an expert in their field...they make mistakes too. If I didn't do a critical analysis of advice that one of them gave me, I feel like I'd be making a mistake then.

I want to know how lou is an expert? Is it because he gets paid? Or is it becuase he played baseball?

 

 

No, because he is an expert. How is anybody an expert? A mix of experience, judgment, past success, smarts, etc. Believe me, I have played and watched a lot of baseball, I don't know as much as these fellows.

 

I have a buddy who was a MLB scouting director and is now an advance scout. Every time I think I become a baseball know it all, I sit down with him and realize how stupid I am. :)

 

 

I am not saying you can't have an opinion, I am just saying I trust those who are more knowledgable than I am. Internet fans in particular need a little more humility. :)

[Peoriaman]

You always analyze what a expert tells you, but I think the call is close enough that I would side with the expert. It isn't like Lou is saying K Hill should be starting over Kendall or Soto. I just tend to trust what a extremely successful manager decides in this case. He simply knows a lot more than I do.

 

A caveat here is that I don't worship the numbers. I know some do. I trust this manager's baseball judgment.

 

Bah just cave in and admit it's stupid. :lol:

 

 

Whispers OK. :)

[Transmogrified Tiger]

His career does mean something, as well as how he has played since he got here. I can live with either, but it isn't as cut and dried as many think. Personally, I would always go with experience, esp at catcher, if it is close.

 

Even if the experience tells you definitively that you are playing one of the weakest defensive catchers in the league?

 

I'm not with you [-(

 

This year Barrett did worse than Kendall and I didn't see too many people yell about that and Barrett may be worse defensively than Kendall too.

 

the switch-a-roo so many have done on the need for defense out of catcher has been rather nauseating.

 

the benefit of defense out of a catcher was one of the most intense debates on this board in May, June, and July. Hendry acquires a catcher who's not too handy with the glove and arm, and suddenly there is no debate. suddenly everyone seems to agree that we need good defense out of our catcher.

 

For the millionth time, it's a matter of degrees. Barrett was below average in most defensive aspects and occasionally made some dumb decisions. He was also one of the best offensive catchers in baseball. Kendall is physically incapable of throwing anyone, anyone, out on the basepaths, and at his best he provides plus OBP with zero XBH. They are different situations.

[Peoriaman]

His career does mean something, as well as how he has played since he got here. I can live with either, but it isn't as cut and dried as many think. Personally, I would always go with experience, esp at catcher, if it is close.

 

Even if the experience tells you definitively that you are playing one of the weakest defensive catchers in the league?

 

I'm not with you [-(

 

This year Barrett did worse than Kendall and I didn't see too many people yell about that and Barrett may be worse defensively than Kendall too.

 

the switch-a-roo so many have done on the need for defense out of catcher has been rather nauseating.

 

the benefit of defense out of a catcher was one of the most intense debates on this board in May, June, and July. Hendry acquires a catcher who's not too handy with the glove and arm, and suddenly there is no debate. suddenly everyone seems to agree that we need good defense out of our catcher.

 

For the millionth time, it's a matter of degrees. Barrett was below average in most defensive aspects and occasionally made some dumb decisions. He was also one of the best offensive catchers in baseball. Kendall is physically incapable of throwing anyone, anyone, out on the basepaths, and at his best he provides plus OBP with zero XBH. They are different situations.

 

I actually think Kendall is a better "receiver" than Barrett. I also trust his leadership more, which is crucial in a catcher.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

the switch-a-roo so many have done on the need for defense out of catcher has been rather nauseating.

 

the benefit of defense out of a catcher was one of the most intense debates on this board in May, June, and July. Hendry acquires a catcher who's not too handy with the glove and arm, and suddenly there is no debate. suddenly everyone seems to agree that we need good defense out of our catcher.

 

For the millionth time, it's a matter of degrees. Barrett was below average in most defensive aspects and occasionally made some dumb decisions. He was also one of the best offensive catchers in baseball. Kendall is physically incapable of throwing anyone, anyone, out on the basepaths, and at his best he provides plus OBP with zero XBH. They are different situations.

 

I actually think Kendall is a better "receiver" than Barrett. I also trust his leadership more, which is crucial in a catcher.

 

He'd better have leadership coming out of his ears for it to be worth turning every walk and base hit into a double for our pitchers.

[Peoriaman]

the switch-a-roo so many have done on the need for defense out of catcher has been rather nauseating.

 

the benefit of defense out of a catcher was one of the most intense debates on this board in May, June, and July. Hendry acquires a catcher who's not too handy with the glove and arm, and suddenly there is no debate. suddenly everyone seems to agree that we need good defense out of our catcher.

 

For the millionth time, it's a matter of degrees. Barrett was below average in most defensive aspects and occasionally made some dumb decisions. He was also one of the best offensive catchers in baseball. Kendall is physically incapable of throwing anyone, anyone, out on the basepaths, and at his best he provides plus OBP with zero XBH. They are different situations.

 

I actually think Kendall is a better "receiver" than Barrett. I also trust his leadership more, which is crucial in a catcher.

 

He'd better have leadership coming out of his ears for it to be worth turning every walk and base hit into a double for our pitchers.

 

 

Don't be ridiculous. That may be the worst exaggeration on this board all week. I will apologize if someone can produce the stat which backs this up. You don't make your case very well when you make silly statements like this.

Edited September 27, 2007 by Peoriaman

[abuck1220]

so kendall is the starter the rest of the year. wonderful. nevermind that he's inferior offensively and defensively to kendall...he's got experience (of course 99% of that experience involves playing on a last place team).

 

welcome back, dusty!

[Peoriaman]

so kendall is the starter the rest of the year. wonderful. nevermind that he's inferior offensively and defensively to kendall...he's got experience (of course 99% of that experience involves playing on a last place team).

 

welcome back, dusty!

 

 

well said. does Kendall1 or Kendall2 play?

Edited September 27, 2007 by Peoriaman

[minnesotacubsfan]

so kendall is the starter the rest of the year. wonderful. nevermind that he's inferior offensively and defensively to kendall...he's got experience (of course 99% of that experience involves playing on a last place team).

 

welcome back, dusty!

 

 

Kendall is inferior to Kendall?

 

 

your slipp'n abuck..I expect more from you ;)

[Transmogrified Tiger]

the switch-a-roo so many have done on the need for defense out of catcher has been rather nauseating.

 

the benefit of defense out of a catcher was one of the most intense debates on this board in May, June, and July. Hendry acquires a catcher who's not too handy with the glove and arm, and suddenly there is no debate. suddenly everyone seems to agree that we need good defense out of our catcher.

 

For the millionth time, it's a matter of degrees. Barrett was below average in most defensive aspects and occasionally made some dumb decisions. He was also one of the best offensive catchers in baseball. Kendall is physically incapable of throwing anyone, anyone, out on the basepaths, and at his best he provides plus OBP with zero XBH. They are different situations.

 

I actually think Kendall is a better "receiver" than Barrett. I also trust his leadership more, which is crucial in a catcher.

 

He'd better have leadership coming out of his ears for it to be worth turning every walk and base hit into a double for our pitchers.

 

 

Don't be ridiculous. That may be the worst exaggeration on this board all week. I will apologize if someone can produce the stat which backs this up. You don't make your case very well when you make silly statements like this.

 

His CS% as a Cub is pretty easily the worst of any catcher who's gotten regular time(save Josh Bard, and he's catching several of the most notoriously "slow to the plate" SP in baseball). He's given up 50 steals in 47 starts. More than once a game teams are taking a free base off of him, and he throws out a pathetic < 10% of them. It's not an exaggeration to say that Kendall's presence compared to Soto is going to cost the team multiple bases, considering in his short stint Soto has been 3 times more effective throwing people out.