Geovany Soto

[David]

 

He's an American citizen -- born in Puerto Rico.

 

as is Pujols, I believe. And nobody in MLB believes Pujols is the age he proclaims.

 

Riii-iight, the same Albert Pujols who was born in the Dominican Republic. Who later moved to Kansas City in 1996, graduated from a high school there, enrolled in a community college to play baseball, and became a US citizen in 2007?

 

Got news for you, Albert is the age he says he is. Because today, after 9/11, you can't become a US citizen without real, verified documentation.

 

 

I agree with this post entirely.

 

I'd just like to point out that the only reason I brought up the thing about Soto being natural born was to point out that you can't really claim the fact that they're both citizens makes their situations comparable.

 

Soto was born a US citizen. Pujols was born in the DR, moved here, went to school here, and then ultimately (this year) achieved citizenship.

[brinoch]

 

He's an American citizen -- born in Puerto Rico.

 

as is Pujols, I believe. And nobody in MLB believes Pujols is the age he proclaims.

 

Riii-iight, the same Albert Pujols who was born in the Dominican Republic. Who later moved to Kansas City in 1996, graduated from a high school there, enrolled in a community college to play baseball, and became a US citizen in 2007?

 

Got news for you, Albert is the age he says he is. Because today, after 9/11, you can't become a US citizen without real, verified documentation.

 

He might be, anything is possible.

 

P-shaw! And monkeys might fly out of your butt.

[CUBZ99]

All this said, I am glad Soto is our catcher and think he should be the #1 guy until he proves he isn't capable.

 

Agreed, and hopefully he won't be tested before the end of this season.

[Peoriaman]

All this said, I am glad Soto is our catcher and think he should be the #1 guy until he proves he isn't capable.

 

No argument on this statement. Kendall should be sent packing this offseason. Soto is likely to provide significantly more offense, definitely superior defense, all for a fraction of the price.

 

I agree, while also giving Kendall his due. He has done a helluva job for us.

[Guest]

I haven't read this whole thread, but Soto's power numbers out of nowhere make me suspicious. I hope I am wrong.

 

Listening to Stoney on the Score this morning, he seemed to be implying the same thing, saying he'd like to be on the same workout regimen Soto was on in the offseason.

 

It's hard not to raise your eyebrows a bit when a player equals his career totals in homeruns in one year Is there a minor league expert out there that may know if Soto changed his stroke this year, ala Sandberg, or if his power surge is attributed to weight loss, etc.

 

I love Soto and his current production, but it is difficult not to be skeptical on the means he might have pursued in order to do so.

 

He lost 30 lbs and became more pull concious after years of trying to just go the other way. At age 24, and being a catcher, it's not surprising that his offense caught up. Given how stringment minor league drug testing is (the Cubs' Scott Taylor was caught for recreation drug usage recently), I think there's a better chance he'd have been caught for PEDs if he was on them in the minors than in the majors.

[Peoriaman]

I haven't read this whole thread, but Soto's power numbers out of nowhere make me suspicious. I hope I am wrong.

 

Listening to Stoney on the Score this morning, he seemed to be implying the same thing, saying he'd like to be on the same workout regimen Soto was on in the offseason.

 

It's hard not to raise your eyebrows a bit when a player equals his career totals in homeruns in one year Is there a minor league expert out there that may know if Soto changed his stroke this year, ala Sandberg, or if his power surge is attributed to weight loss, etc.

 

I love Soto and his current production, but it is difficult not to be skeptical on the means he might have pursued in order to do so.

 

He lost 30 lbs and became more pull concious after years of trying to just go the other way. At age 24, and being a catcher, it's not surprising that his offense caught up. Given how stringment minor league drug testing is (the Cubs' Scott Taylor was caught for recreation drug usage recently), I think there's a better chance he'd have been caught for PEDs if he was on them in the minors than in the majors.

 

 

definitely.

[Soul]

Until someone intercepts a shipment, or Geo fails a drug test, or something tangible comes to light, I'm going to consider him clean.

 

Yes obviously I'm Cub-biased but it's not like I was suggesting Eckstein was on the juice last year because he miraculously won the WS MVP. Ankiel was suspected because of the shipment of HGH which is tangible, that's a little different than this situation where it's just an offhand comment by Stoney.

[Banedon]

Not to derail this thread...but frankly I put less and less stock in what Steve Stone says these days anyway. I still think there's a lot of bitterness there toward the Cubs. I think he's burned a lot of bridges and looks for ways to criticize them.

 

That said, I don't think anyone was saying (seriously) that Ankiel was on any performance enhancers until there was at least some kind of actual proof. Even Cubs fans. There may have been some snide, troll-like remarks in jest...but I don't think it was seriously considered. And he was a whole heckuva lot better in a short amount of time than Soto.

[Guest]

I agree with you on Stone, Banedon. I don't put any stock in what he says these days.

[David]

I agree with you on Stone, Banedon. I don't put any stock in what he says these days.

 

It's funny. The latest target of his ire seems to be Mark Cuban. I think he can't stand that, as someone who might be part of a prospective ownership group, he's not the people's choice, and this out of town, young billionaire is.

[SouthSideRyan]

Miguel Cabrera hit 28 HR's in 1428 at bats during his entire minor league career.

 

Soto hit 25 HR's in 1574 at bats prior to his 2007 minor league season.

I'm hitting what you are pitching BBB but Cabrera also came up to the bigs when he was 20.

 

I don't like this automatic assumption that every players who had a good/great year is on the juice.

 

Roger Maris did em.

[SouthSideRyan]

[i am not accusing Soto of anything.

 

You clearly are accusing him of lots of things, none of which with any sort of proof besides the braindead ramblings of Stone.

[Peoriaman]

[i am not accusing Soto of anything.

 

You clearly are accusing him of lots of things, none of which with any sort of proof besides the braindead ramblings of Stone.

 

 

Nope. Some of you guys need to chill.

Edited September 25, 2007 by Peoriaman

[Soul]

[i am not accusing Soto of anything.

 

You clearly are accusing him of lots of things, none of which with any sort of proof besides the braindead ramblings of Stone.

 

If all Stoney said was he'd like to be on that workout program, then I think some are making a little more out of it than it really is. It's not like he actually mentioned PEDs. He was doing what he does, coming up with snide sarcastic comments to entertain the audience.

 

That said, I agree that since Stoney has been doing these radio sessions he's become more apt to make stupid little comments like that, and it does hurt his credibility.

[David]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in here, but how awesome was it when Geo grabbed Z by the jersey when he was trying to settle him down?

[SouthSideRyan]

I haven't read this whole thread, but Soto's power numbers out of nowhere make me suspicious. I hope I am wrong.

 

BigbadB wrote:

All players go through power development changes, some faster than others.

 

 

One can only hope.

 

I don't like this automatic assumption that every players who had a good/great year is no the juice.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, that is part of the deal today. If Soto was a Cardinal, we would be buying into it.

 

No disrespect intended, but you have no more idea if this is true than I do if the juice is true. In modern day baseball, when a guy's numbers change as dramatically as this, esp at his age, it brings suspicion.

 

That is modern day baseball where these suspicions run wild--and for good cause.

 

With all due respect, if Soto was a Cardinal and Stone said that, many here would be more likely to run with it.

 

It is a natural response in today's game.

 

I hope he is 24.

 

well, it is a natural response with millions of fans and apparently, Steve Stone

 

He's an American citizen -- born in Puerto Rico.

 

 

 

as is Pujols, I believe. And nobody in MLB believes Pujols is the age he proclaims.

 

Hey, no reason to get uptight. Stone mentioned it and anytime a guy suddenly develops great power, suspicions are bound to come up. I am not accusing Soto of anything, this is just a natural reaction to the rampant use of steroids/HGH in the game.

[Peoriaman]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in here, but how awesome was it when Geo grabbed Z by the jersey when he was trying to settle him down?

 

 

THAT showed me a lot.

[wvcbxl]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in here, but how awesome was it when Geo grabbed Z by the jersey when he was trying to settle him down?

 

That takes courage, not PED's.

 

Just ask Barrett :jocolor:

[Peoriaman]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in here, but how awesome was it when Geo grabbed Z by the jersey when he was trying to settle him down?

 

That takes courage, not PED's.

 

Just ask Barrett :jocolor:

 

 

No kidding

[TruffleShuffle]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in here, but how awesome was it when Geo grabbed Z by the jersey when he was trying to settle him down?

 

 

THAT showed me a lot.

 

Not just that... he's shown a lot of confidence in going out to talk to struggling pitchers, and in general has called a good game (not getting crossed up and shaken off). Obviously he's a lot better defensively than Kendall, but for a young guy like him to show some leadership qualities toward guys with a lot more big league experience is a very good sign. I think he has the "intangibles" to be a good starting catcher - it's just a question of whether his bat is really this good.

 

As for the steroid question, I'm not going to outright say he hasn't taken them, since I assume that a lot of guys in the game are still taking PEDs. But as has been mentioned, minor league testing is strict, and there's no question that Soto has been tested at least once, and possibly multiple times, this year. That obviously doesn't disqualify HGH, b/c they can't test for that, but I'm not going to assume that he is taking that just because his power has blossomed.

[Irrelevant Dude]

[i am not accusing Soto of anything.

 

You clearly are accusing him of lots of things, none of which with any sort of proof besides the braindead ramblings of Stone.

 

If all Stoney said was he'd like to be on that workout program, then I think some are making a little more out of it than it really is. It's not like he actually mentioned PEDs. He was doing what he does, coming up with snide sarcastic comments to entertain the audience.

 

That said, I agree that since Stoney has been doing these radio sessions he's become more apt to make stupid little comments like that, and it does hurt his credibility.

I didn't hear Steve Stone's interview this morning, but yesterday afternoon on Boers & Bernstein he hinted strongly that Soto had used performance enhancing drugs. He never specifically mentioned drugs, or any workout program for that matter, but it was heavily implied. His argument was based on a pure comparison of numbers from year to year and how 2007 is completely out of line with his past history. Stone had absolutely no proof of anything and I truly hope that Soto's emergence came about naturally, but I can hardly criticize anyone for being suspicious.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'll certainly criticize people for being suspicious of anybody who's had a spike in numbers being on steroids. Of everyone that's tested positive for roids, where are their performance spikes? Throughout history when guys had their career years what was the reason behind it? This proving a negative, and guilty until proven innocent stuff with steroids is pretty annoying.

[DivineBovine]

[i am not accusing Soto of anything.

 

You clearly are accusing him of lots of things, none of which with any sort of proof besides the braindead ramblings of Stone.

 

If all Stoney said was he'd like to be on that workout program, then I think some are making a little more out of it than it really is. It's not like he actually mentioned PEDs. He was doing what he does, coming up with snide sarcastic comments to entertain the audience.

 

That said, I agree that since Stoney has been doing these radio sessions he's become more apt to make stupid little comments like that, and it does hurt his credibility.

I didn't hear Steve Stone's interview this morning, but yesterday afternoon on Boers & Bernstein he hinted strongly that Soto had used performance enhancing drugs. He never specifically mentioned drugs, or any workout program for that matter, but it was heavily implied. His argument was based on a pure comparison of numbers from year to year and how 2007 is completely out of line with his past history. Stone had absolutely no proof of anything and I truly hope that Soto's emergence came about naturally, but I can hardly criticize anyone for being suspicious.

 

 

Wow, if an implication like that was made purely on numbers, that is totally unprofessional. Tough to make any judgments on Stone like that without hearing the clip, but it's absurd to make an allegation about cheating just based on numbers and nothing else.

 

If there's one terrible thing the Bonds story has done, is caused every good player to be questioned no matter what. If testing by the MLB says a guy is clean, who am I do say he isn't. People can't ever just get better?

[SouthSideRyan]

My favorite part of the completely baseless speculation is that Geo lost weight before the season. The McCarthys will usually go with just a guy gaining 15 pounds as enough to say he's on roids, I guess, it doesn't definitively go the other way.

[Irrelevant Dude]

Steering back away from the steroid talk, Lou said before tonight's game that Kendall is rested up and will probably play the rest of the way. We didn't need a Catcher with power and a good throwing arm anyway.