Fox Sports: Ramirez SIGNS WITH CUBS!

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Ramirez is not a high OBP guy, never has been, and he has absolutely no speed. None. Tejada and especially, A-Rod, would be DEMONSTRABLY superior players that improve the team incrementally, without even considering that both play a harder position to fill.

 

Tejada makes $12MM/year, A-Rod makes $16MM/year net (the Yankees payment). Ramirez likely wants $13MM to $14MM/year? No way.

 

Miguel Tejada is on the downslope of his career, and I can make a very strong case that Aramis is a better player right now. ARod is better, but the odds of matching up with NY in a deal are very, very low. Add to that the player cost of ARod and the fact that you aren't *that* much better with ARod over ARam, and you get a bad 2007 team.

 

Add Tejada or ARod to a team with Lee and Aramis, and now you have something.

 

And FYI, Aramis's OBP is comparable to Tejada's. Without the high strikeout total.

 

Tejada is older, that is true. But he offers similar production, is LESS expensive in $$, and he fills a more difficult position. I'd rather have Tejada at SS and Iwamura at 3B than Ramirez at 3B and Izturis at SS, for example.

 

I'm not on a "Hate Aramis" mission, I just recognize the many holes on this team and I'm struggling with whether (1) Aramis is really part of the long-term solution, and/or (2) whether the money he'll demand is a wise investment. The guy HAS shown a tendency to persistent, nagging injuries.

 

And BTW, I have no idea what you're talking about on "high strikeout totals." Tejada the last three seasons has K'd 73, 83, and 79 times, and that's with 650 ABs/year. Ramirez is at 62,62 and 63 times, but on average roughly 100 less ABs per year, too. I'd say they're both pretty good at making contact, and Tejada is not more prone to the strikeout.

 

While Tejada is less expensive salary-wise, he'd cost the Cubs tradable assets that could be used elsewhere if Aramis is re-signed (or on Tejada himself so the left side of the infield can have Aramis and Tejada).

[jmajew]

In all reality if we lose Aramis our offseason will prolly look something like this. Julio Lugo 3/18, Soriano 5/80, Shea Hillenbrand 2/12, Schmidt 4/56. That would give us Lugo, Barrett, Soriano, DLee, Murton, Hillenbrand, Jones, Pie. Rotation of Zambrano, Schmidt, Hill, Prior/Miller/Marshall/Guzman.

[FergieJ31]

 

He's the best FA bat out there. He walks, you need 2 bats to make up for it and improve. I've heard Gary Sheffield's name bandied about. You'd rather have a broken down Sheffield than Ramirez? Carlos Lee? He's wildly overrated, and can only play LF, which is a position that id ably filled by a cheap, good young player. Soriano? I'd like him in CF or 2B, but he's going to cost more than Ramirez, is older, and not as good. Trade for ARod? We don't have the parts to compete with Anaheim and the White Sox, if it comes to that.

 

Ramirez is the best offensive player on the team. You just don't find guys to replace him laying around. He leaves, and we will not compete in 2007.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

Obviously Soriano is a fine ballplayer but I'm in solidly the camp of "he won't be worth the money". CLee will probably go to Houston and continue to torment the Cubs - I'd almost rather overpay for him than Soriano, but I'd pass on CLee too.

 

Which brings me to a depressing q:

 

At what point do we say forget 2007 and let's look next year's FA list? A fatter list should (in theory) mean better value for the $.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

The simple solution here is to re-sign Ramirez AND trade for Tejada. Now everyone is happy and the Cubs can concentrate on pitching.

 

And move Tejada to 2B so ARod can play SS.

[Banedon]

The simple solution here is to re-sign Ramirez AND trade for Tejada. Now everyone is happy and the Cubs can concentrate on pitching.

 

And move Tejada to 2B so ARod can play SS.

 

Heh...A-ram, A-Rod, Miggy and D-Lee. I'd take that infield. How about Murton, Soriano, and Jones in the outfield?

 

*end insane ramblings*

[Southpaw191679666239]

At what point do we say forget 2007 and let's look next year's FA list? A fatter list should (in theory) mean better value for the $.

 

What time is it? :P

[ronsanto10]

is it just me, or dont any of you remember how Aram picked up the slack when D-Lee got hurt?? all i remember is him dogging it and slacking?? I dont think he deserves D-Lee money, he's not a D-lee type player, hes a second tier guy, not a team leader, which he proved when Lee got hurt...so im not too sad that he opted out...do i want him back? yeah if he starts to hustle, if not, i wont be too sad if he goes....

 

Lee was out most of the season. Why focus on only two months of that time? In fact, Lee played the first half of April, so really you're talking about one and a half months of the season and using that to dismiss the need for the Cubs to hold on to their most productive offensive player over the last three years because all you "remember is him dogging it and slacking."

 

Sound reasoning.

 

Ramirez in 2006:

 

April: 71 ABs; .197/.321/.394 (Derrek Lee had 44 ABs)

May: 109 ABs; .266/.296/.495 (Lee had zero ABs)

June: 105 ABs; .276/.325/.476 (Lee had 22 ABs)

July: 96 ABs; .344/.414/.750 (Lee had 53 ABs)

August: 111 ABs; .333/.400/640 (Lee with 12 ABs)

September: 98 ABs; .306/.346/.551 (Lee had 44 ABs)

 

Ramirez was VERY productive. He played in the most games of his career and he improved greatly on defense.

 

Oh, I guess he's just a "second tier" guy though because of the few grounders he didn't bust ass down the line on.

 

IMO he is a 2nd tier guy because when the cubs needed him, he was invisable....according to some in sports radio, he even asked to be moved down in the line up....

 

maybe he has been the most productive offensive player in the last 3 years, but remind me, what did the cubs win in 2004, 2005, and 2006??

i want all the players to play 100% him included....

[Productive Outs]

is it just me, or dont any of you remember how Aram picked up the slack when D-Lee got hurt?? all i remember is him dogging it and slacking?? I dont think he deserves D-Lee money, he's not a D-lee type player, hes a second tier guy, not a team leader, which he proved when Lee got hurt...so im not too sad that he opted out...do i want him back? yeah if he starts to hustle, if not, i wont be too sad if he goes....

 

Lee was out most of the season. Why focus on only two months of that time? In fact, Lee played the first half of April, so really you're talking about one and a half months of the season and using that to dismiss the need for the Cubs to hold on to their most productive offensive player over the last three years because all you "remember is him dogging it and slacking."

 

Sound reasoning.

 

Ramirez in 2006:

 

April: 71 ABs; .197/.321/.394 (Derrek Lee had 44 ABs)

May: 109 ABs; .266/.296/.495 (Lee had zero ABs)

June: 105 ABs; .276/.325/.476 (Lee had 22 ABs)

July: 96 ABs; .344/.414/.750 (Lee had 53 ABs)

August: 111 ABs; .333/.400/640 (Lee with 12 ABs)

September: 98 ABs; .306/.346/.551 (Lee had 44 ABs)

 

Ramirez was VERY productive. He played in the most games of his career and he improved greatly on defense.

 

Oh, I guess he's just a "second tier" guy though because of the few grounders he didn't bust ass down the line on.

 

IMO he is a 2nd tier guy because when the cubs needed him, he was invisable....according to some in sports radio, he even asked to be moved down in the line up....

 

maybe he has been the most productive offensive player in the last 3 years, but remind me, what did the cubs win in 2004, 2005, and 2006??

i want all the players to play 100% him included....

 

aramis was one of the few cubs players producing when they choked in late 2004.

[Soul]

The step-by-step on Jimbo's desk has to read something like this:

 

1) Resign ARam

2) Acquire Schmitty

3) Grab journeyman 2B

4) Live with Dempster

 

 

I'm pretty sure that's how it goes. I don't see any way Hendry is thinking 3 major deals (as in ARam, Schmitty, AND Soriano). It's not realistic; too many other teams out there with good money and a drive to win that surpasses the Cubs.

 

If that first domino doesn't fall, it will be interesting to see if Hendry really does shift gears and go hard for Soriano. More likely, he'll do what he always does: wait and wait some more, hoping for something to fall his way.

 

I sure as heck hope we can at least sign Schmidt. That might give hope for a decent ballclub in '08 assuming the health of Zambrano, Schmidt, and Prior holds up (yeah---fat chance on Prior I know).

[USSoccer]

is it just me, or dont any of you remember how Aram picked up the slack when D-Lee got hurt?? all i remember is him dogging it and slacking?? I dont think he deserves D-Lee money, he's not a D-lee type player, hes a second tier guy, not a team leader, which he proved when Lee got hurt...so im not too sad that he opted out...do i want him back? yeah if he starts to hustle, if not, i wont be too sad if he goes....

 

Lee was out most of the season. Why focus on only two months of that time? In fact, Lee played the first half of April, so really you're talking about one and a half months of the season and using that to dismiss the need for the Cubs to hold on to their most productive offensive player over the last three years because all you "remember is him dogging it and slacking."

 

Sound reasoning.

 

Ramirez in 2006:

 

April: 71 ABs; .197/.321/.394 (Derrek Lee had 44 ABs)

May: 109 ABs; .266/.296/.495 (Lee had zero ABs)

June: 105 ABs; .276/.325/.476 (Lee had 22 ABs)

July: 96 ABs; .344/.414/.750 (Lee had 53 ABs)

August: 111 ABs; .333/.400/640 (Lee with 12 ABs)

September: 98 ABs; .306/.346/.551 (Lee had 44 ABs)

 

Ramirez was VERY productive. He played in the most games of his career and he improved greatly on defense.

 

Oh, I guess he's just a "second tier" guy though because of the few grounders he didn't bust ass down the line on.

 

IMO he is a 2nd tier guy because when the cubs needed him, he was invisable....according to some in sports radio, he even asked to be moved down in the line up....

 

maybe he has been the most productive offensive player in the last 3 years, but remind me, what did the cubs win in 2004, 2005, and 2006??

i want all the players to play 100% him included....

 

This is crazy. First of all, nobody ever reported he asked to be moved down, and even if he did, does that violate some sort of sports machismo rule? Secondly, a baseball season is 6 months long. You don't judge a player based on a rough 6 weeks. Also, just because the Cubs didn't win anything doesn't erase his performance. If it does, then it should also erase the performances of Soriano, Schmidt, Lee, Zito, Matsuzuka, and ARod, because they also didn't win anything over the last 3 seasons.

 

And finally, the .950 OPS he put up in the 2003 playoffs continues to be ignored. Was that somehow "un-clutch"?

[Sammy Sofa]

is it just me, or dont any of you remember how Aram picked up the slack when D-Lee got hurt?? all i remember is him dogging it and slacking?? I dont think he deserves D-Lee money, he's not a D-lee type player, hes a second tier guy, not a team leader, which he proved when Lee got hurt...so im not too sad that he opted out...do i want him back? yeah if he starts to hustle, if not, i wont be too sad if he goes....

 

Lee was out most of the season. Why focus on only two months of that time? In fact, Lee played the first half of April, so really you're talking about one and a half months of the season and using that to dismiss the need for the Cubs to hold on to their most productive offensive player over the last three years because all you "remember is him dogging it and slacking."

 

Sound reasoning.

 

Ramirez in 2006:

 

April: 71 ABs; .197/.321/.394 (Derrek Lee had 44 ABs)

May: 109 ABs; .266/.296/.495 (Lee had zero ABs)

June: 105 ABs; .276/.325/.476 (Lee had 22 ABs)

July: 96 ABs; .344/.414/.750 (Lee had 53 ABs)

August: 111 ABs; .333/.400/640 (Lee with 12 ABs)

September: 98 ABs; .306/.346/.551 (Lee had 44 ABs)

 

Ramirez was VERY productive. He played in the most games of his career and he improved greatly on defense.

 

Oh, I guess he's just a "second tier" guy though because of the few grounders he didn't bust ass down the line on.

 

IMO he is a 2nd tier guy because when the cubs needed him, he was invisable....according to some in sports radio, he even asked to be moved down in the line up....

 

maybe he has been the most productive offensive player in the last 3 years, but remind me, what did the cubs win in 2004, 2005, and 2006??

i want all the players to play 100% him included....

 

Why you ignoring how incredibly good he was later in the year when the rest of the team was still horrible? It's not like they magically got better...Aramis had a slow start, and nobody is going to deny that. But you're presenting it like the team being bad was only a temporary thing and by the time Aramis blew up they had gotten better. They hadn't. They were the same awful team they were at the beginning of the year. So how did he not "step up" in June, July, Agust and September?

[rocket]

maybe he has been the most productive offensive player in the last 3 years, but remind me, what did the cubs win in 2004, 2005, and 2006??

i want all the players to play 100% him included....

 

what have the cubs won in 1908-present?

 

ernie banks was the best offensive cubs player for a while, same with ryne sandberg, andre dawson, billy williams, etc. do they get labelled the same as aramis?

[Southpaw191679666239]

Here's a thought:

 

Assuming A-Ram walks...

Assuming JH would have had money to spend -- with the Trib perhaps not thinking A-Ram would opt out -- thus locking in the $ for the next two years...

 

Wouldn't it be a good idea to give that money to Z?

 

Now that I look at what I typed, it sounded better in my head, but the point being A-Ram's money going to Z's extension, should he sign elsewhere.

[soapy]

 

IMO he is a 2nd tier guy because when the cubs needed him, he was invisable....according to some in sports radio, he even asked to be moved down in the line up....

 

maybe he has been the most productive offensive player in the last 3 years, but remind me, what did the cubs win in 2004, 2005, and 2006??

i want all the players to play 100% him included....

 

Oh jeez...

 

Okay, let's talk about what Ramirez did when the Cubs "needed him most" like the 2003 playoffs or September 2004. Oh, wait, that doesn't fit into your arguement.

 

What did the Cubs ever win with Ryne Sandberg, Ernie Banks, Fergie Jenkins, your namesake Ron Santo?

 

Not to mention: Everybody's golden boy Derrek Lee put up a not so monstrous .710 OPS in September 2004. Where was he when his team needed him most?

[CaliforniaRaisin]

is it just me, or dont any of you remember how Aram picked up the slack when D-Lee got hurt?? all i remember is him dogging it and slacking?? I dont think he deserves D-Lee money, he's not a D-lee type player, hes a second tier guy, not a team leader, which he proved when Lee got hurt...so im not too sad that he opted out...do i want him back? yeah if he starts to hustle, if not, i wont be too sad if he goes....

 

Lee was out most of the season. Why focus on only two months of that time? In fact, Lee played the first half of April, so really you're talking about one and a half months of the season and using that to dismiss the need for the Cubs to hold on to their most productive offensive player over the last three years because all you "remember is him dogging it and slacking."

 

Sound reasoning.

 

Ramirez in 2006:

 

April: 71 ABs; .197/.321/.394 (Derrek Lee had 44 ABs)

May: 109 ABs; .266/.296/.495 (Lee had zero ABs)

June: 105 ABs; .276/.325/.476 (Lee had 22 ABs)

July: 96 ABs; .344/.414/.750 (Lee had 53 ABs)

August: 111 ABs; .333/.400/640 (Lee with 12 ABs)

September: 98 ABs; .306/.346/.551 (Lee had 44 ABs)

 

Ramirez was VERY productive. He played in the most games of his career and he improved greatly on defense.

 

Oh, I guess he's just a "second tier" guy though because of the few grounders he didn't bust ass down the line on.

 

IMO he is a 2nd tier guy because when the cubs needed him, he was invisable....according to some in sports radio, he even asked to be moved down in the line up....

 

maybe he has been the most productive offensive player in the last 3 years, but remind me, what did the cubs win in 2004, 2005, and 2006??

i want all the players to play 100% him included....

 

How is Derrek Lee a first tier player there? He completely disappeared when the Cubs needed him in September 04 (Aramis was the only viable offensive threat then).

 

This seems to ignore the fact that baseball players go through hot and cold slumps and Aramis (like Derrek Lee outside of 2005) seems to start the season off cold.

[neely crenshaw]

our gm has been looking to the next year every year he has been here...when will he pull the trigger.

aram is gone. unless no one wants him...but he will get offers.

face it..our poor offense just got pitiful...can you imagine how it will be for dlee with jock hitting 4th! yeah...

 

and no i do not think hendry can fix it...just another hole that won't be addressed. i mean it's only been 3 offseasons and we almost have sammy and alou replaced...nevermind.

[b_wiggy_66]

The author at mlbtraderumors has a new link up about Aramis. He cautions that he has not been able to find a 2nd source on this and to take it with a grain of salt but it says:

 

"I am told that Aramis Ramirez's agent Paul Kinzer is asking for six years at $15MM per or seven years at $14MM annually.

 

Jim Hendry's counteroffer: five years, $70MM guaranteed (11/12/15/16/16), sixth year vests at $14MM with a team option and seventh year a player option at $14MM. Full no-trade 2007-09, partial no-trade 2010-13."

 

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/10/unfounded_rumor.html

 

This looks like something that could be worked out. I'm surprised Hendry would give this many years though.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

When mlbtraderumors.com says the rumor is unfounded, then it's pretty much what some guy heard from his dog.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

When mlbtraderumors.com says the rumor is unfounded, then it's pretty much what some guy heard from his dog.

 

Or that someone just pulled it out of his butt.

[Geech]

If that's anywhere close to being true, it's definitely not a bad contract for Aramis, though. Hopefully he'd take it, but I suspect the Cobs would have to pay more than that to keep him.

[Outshined_One]

When mlbtraderumors.com says the rumor is unfounded, then it's pretty much what some guy heard from his dog.

 

Let's hope that dog is psychic, in that case. :D

[CubFanPhilly]

Here's a thought:

 

Assuming A-Ram walks...

Assuming JH would have had money to spend -- with the Trib perhaps not thinking A-Ram would opt out -- thus locking in the $ for the next two years...

 

Wouldn't it be a good idea to give that money to Z?

 

Now that I look at what I typed, it sounded better in my head, but the point being A-Ram's money going to Z's extension, should he sign elsewhere.

 

Yes. Spend the money on locking up Zambrano and Barrett up (front-end loaded deals 5yr and 3yr respectively). Go with DeRosa/Moore at 3B, Theriot 2B and Pie in CF. Find out which (if any) can play and fill the 2-4 holes in the 2007-2008 offseason. Z/Miller/Hill/Prior et. al. in the rotation.

 

Heck if things go really well, you should still have plenty of payroll flexibility to trade for a couple parts at the deadline.

 

(Won't happen though.)

[BigbadB]

Here's a thought:

 

Assuming A-Ram walks...

Assuming JH would have had money to spend -- with the Trib perhaps not thinking A-Ram would opt out -- thus locking in the $ for the next two years...

 

Wouldn't it be a good idea to give that money to Z?

 

Now that I look at what I typed, it sounded better in my head, but the point being A-Ram's money going to Z's extension, should he sign elsewhere.

 

If Aramis leaves, the Cubs might as well sell off Zambrano. There isn't much need for an impact starter on a crappy team. If the Cubs don't add any significant players AND lose Aramis, what will be Zambrano's inspiration to sign an extension on a sinking ship?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Here's a thought:

 

Assuming A-Ram walks...

Assuming JH would have had money to spend -- with the Trib perhaps not thinking A-Ram would opt out -- thus locking in the $ for the next two years...

 

Wouldn't it be a good idea to give that money to Z?

 

Now that I look at what I typed, it sounded better in my head, but the point being A-Ram's money going to Z's extension, should he sign elsewhere.

 

If Aramis leaves, the Cubs might as well sell off Zambrano. There isn't much need for an impact starter on a crappy team. If the Cubs don't add any significant players AND lose Aramis, what will be Zambrano's inspiration to sign an extension on a sinking ship?

 

Agreed. A Zambrano trade could rebuild the top levels of the Cubs minor league system as well.

[frostwyrm]

Here's a thought:

 

Assuming A-Ram walks...

Assuming JH would have had money to spend -- with the Trib perhaps not thinking A-Ram would opt out -- thus locking in the $ for the next two years...

 

Wouldn't it be a good idea to give that money to Z?

 

Now that I look at what I typed, it sounded better in my head, but the point being A-Ram's money going to Z's extension, should he sign elsewhere.

 

If Aramis leaves, the Cubs might as well sell off Zambrano. There isn't much need for an impact starter on a crappy team. If the Cubs don't add any significant players AND lose Aramis, what will be Zambrano's inspiration to sign an extension on a sinking ship?

 

Agreed. A Zambrano trade could rebuild the top levels of the Cubs minor league system as well.

Not a chance in hell Jim is thinking that far ahead.