Fox Sports: Ramirez SIGNS WITH CUBS!

[soccer10k]

is it just me, or dont any of you remember how Aram picked up the slack when D-Lee got hurt?? all i remember is him dogging it and slacking?? I dont think he deserves D-Lee money, he's not a D-lee type player, hes a second tier guy, not a team leader, which he proved when Lee got hurt...so im not too sad that he opted out...do i want him back? yeah if he starts to hustle, if not, i wont be too sad if he goes....

 

Just to play devil's advocate, you don't know how DLee would have performed if ARam broke his wrist and had to miss the same time that DLee did. And frankly losing either of those two players this year would have been a HUGE blow since the rest of the team wasn't very good. ARam can only control the hitting aspect. ARam wasn't responsible for the Cubs having the 24th best ERA in the year or for the Cubs giving up the fifth most runs in the league. Nobody was producing, that includes pitchers as well, early in the year when DLee went down.

[Soriano12]

Lets say to keep Aram, we have to give him more money than D. Lee.

 

Will this cause problems?

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Lets say to keep Aram, we have to give him more money than D. Lee.

 

Will this cause problems?

 

No.

[CubinNY]

Lets say to keep Aram, we have to give him more money than D. Lee.

 

Will this cause problems?

 

I don't think so.

 

I think there is no way Aramis signs before the Nov. 11 deadline. I think he is going to see what he can get and see if Hendry will match the offer. My guess is that Hendry doesn't because there is a lot of money to spend of free-agents this year and not a lot of talent on the market, especially at 3rd base. I think a team with less holes with throw big, big dollars Aramis's way.

[Laura]

maybe sweet lou can call aramis and yell at him really loud and firely over the phone and that will make aramis sign?

 

I think it more likely that sweet lou will do some loud fire-ly yelling if Aramis isn't re-signed ...

 

That's what I meant before when I said the Cubs were going to have to throw A LOT of money around if they had any expectations of competing next year. You can obviously win with a lesser payroll, but you need to plan well to do so. The Cubs haven't. If the team president wants to pay lip service to winning next year, they'd better up the payroll significantly at a minimum.

 

Even with that, I doubt they'll do it.

 

If Aramis walks, that's the last straw IMO for Hendry.

[NorthsideAvenger]

All I know is Hendry better overpay for Ramirez. Because if he loses Ramirez, they should just completely rebuild with young guys. Trade away Lee and Zambrano, because I'm sure they don't want to be part of any more rebuilding plans. They will surely give us some top of the line prospects. The problem with the rebuilding mode is we got the wrong manager for that type. We should have gotten Joe Girardi if we were going to rebuild. I can see many avenues of disaster for 2007.

 

Hendry would not had gone after Piniella, if he felt he wasn't going to re-sign ARam. I have no worries about ARam playing anywhere but Chicago next yr.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Given all the holes, the Cubs would be a stronger team if they let Ramirez walk, took the $13MM+/year he'd command, and use it to sign both Iwamura and Saito or Kuroda, with (likely) some cash still left over for a veteran bench guy like Graffanino. I want bodies that can perform, three players to replace one works for me.

 

Ramirez' bat can be replaced at a different position, preferably an outfielder via trade.

 

If the Cubs could then shock us all and bring either Tejada or A-Rod to Chicago, no one will miss Aramis Ramirez. The next Ron Santo in fan support he ain't.

[ronsanto10]

is it just me, or dont any of you remember how Aram picked up the slack when D-Lee got hurt?? all i remember is him dogging it and slacking?? I dont think he deserves D-Lee money, he's not a D-lee type player, hes a second tier guy, not a team leader, which he proved when Lee got hurt...so im not too sad that he opted out...do i want him back? yeah if he starts to hustle, if not, i wont be too sad if he goes....

 

Just to play devil's advocate, you don't know how DLee would have performed if ARam broke his wrist and had to miss the same time that DLee did. And frankly losing either of those two players this year would have been a HUGE blow since the rest of the team wasn't very good. ARam can only control the hitting aspect. ARam wasn't responsible for the Cubs having the 24th best ERA in the year or for the Cubs giving up the fifth most runs in the league. Nobody was producing, that includes pitchers as well, early in the year when DLee went down.

 

i agree....Aram will get the big dollars, i just wish he would not dogg it when he doesnt feel like it....i want him to try hard, like D-Lee in 2005, even though the cubs were stinking it up, he still was the best out there, and i cant say i feel the same about Aram....when then going got tough, he played lazy....IMO

[RationalSoxFan]

I don't see why you guys are so worried. Hendry won't let him go. They need him.

[muntjack]

If the Cubs could then shock us all and bring either Tejada or A-Rod to Chicago, no one will miss Aramis Ramirez.

 

I will. Replacing Aramis with either of those two is simply treading water offensively. It will be a huge deal in the media, but we will be improving marginally if at all. It will make us older, however.

 

Hendry didn't trade Ramirez when he could have gotten a boatload for him, now it's time to bite the bullet and give the man his money.

 

The only way i would approve of letting him go is if a deal was in place to get Cabrera. Even then, we still need another bat and we likely have no prospects left.

[Sammy Sofa]

is it just me, or dont any of you remember how Aram picked up the slack when D-Lee got hurt?? all i remember is him dogging it and slacking?? I dont think he deserves D-Lee money, he's not a D-lee type player, hes a second tier guy, not a team leader, which he proved when Lee got hurt...so im not too sad that he opted out...do i want him back? yeah if he starts to hustle, if not, i wont be too sad if he goes....

 

Just to play devil's advocate, you don't know how DLee would have performed if ARam broke his wrist and had to miss the same time that DLee did. And frankly losing either of those two players this year would have been a HUGE blow since the rest of the team wasn't very good. ARam can only control the hitting aspect. ARam wasn't responsible for the Cubs having the 24th best ERA in the year or for the Cubs giving up the fifth most runs in the league. Nobody was producing, that includes pitchers as well, early in the year when DLee went down.

 

i agree....Aram will get the big dollars, i just wish he would not dogg it when he doesnt feel like it....i want him to try hard, like D-Lee in 2005, even though the cubs were stinking it up, he still was the best out there, and i cant say i feel the same about Aram....when then going got tough, he played lazy....IMO

 

How does that make any sense? As the year went on and the Cubs got worse, Aramis clearly got much, MUCH better.

[USSoccer]

 

Ramirez' bat can be replaced at a different position, preferably an outfielder via trade.

 

If the Cubs could then shock us all and bring either Tejada or A-Rod to Chicago, no one will miss Aramis Ramirez. The next Ron Santo in fan support he ain't.

 

Don, if Ramirez walks, you then have to sign or aquire 2 impact bats to improve. Thjat's going to be next to impossible this winter.

 

As far as being the next Ron Santo in terms of fan support, I'd rather people be indifferent to him and he continue to outproduce every other 3B in team history than be popular.

[XZero771679666304]

 

Ramirez' bat can be replaced at a different position, preferably an outfielder via trade.

 

If the Cubs could then shock us all and bring either Tejada or A-Rod to Chicago, no one will miss Aramis Ramirez. The next Ron Santo in fan support he ain't.

 

Don, if Ramirez walks, you then have to sign or aquire 2 impact bats to improve. Thjat's going to be next to impossible this winter.

 

As far as being the next Ron Santo in terms of fan support, I'd rather people be indifferent to him and he continue to outproduce every other 3B in team history than be popular.

 

I am in the camp that believes that Ramirez NEEDS to be re-signed, but Hendry could sign Soriano and Carlos Lee and put Soriano at 2B, or sign Soriano and trade for Sheffield.

 

If the Cubs sign Soriano (which I believe they will), there are a number of OF possibilities: Lee, Sheffield, Wells, Burrell, etc. Personally, I would re-sign Ramirez, sign Soriano and try and trade for Vernon Wells or sign Lee.

 

On a semi-related note, I find myself wondering why people are assuming Soriano will be an OF next season. Sure he is a butcher at 2B, but with the lack of impact bats on the market this winter, he's going to play where he wants to.

[CubColtPacer]

 

Ramirez' bat can be replaced at a different position, preferably an outfielder via trade.

 

If the Cubs could then shock us all and bring either Tejada or A-Rod to Chicago, no one will miss Aramis Ramirez. The next Ron Santo in fan support he ain't.

 

Don, if Ramirez walks, you then have to sign or aquire 2 impact bats to improve. Thjat's going to be next to impossible this winter.

 

As far as being the next Ron Santo in terms of fan support, I'd rather people be indifferent to him and he continue to outproduce every other 3B in team history than be popular.

 

I am in the camp that believes that Ramirez NEEDS to be re-signed, but Hendry could sign Soriano and Carlos Lee and put Soriano at 2B, or sign Soriano and trade for Sheffield.

 

If the Cubs sign Soriano (which I believe they will), there are a number of OF possibilities: Lee, Sheffield, Wells, Burrell, etc. Personally, I would re-sign Ramirez, sign Soriano and try and trade for Vernon Wells or sign Lee.

 

On a semi-related note, I find myself wondering why people are assuming Soriano will be an OF next season. Sure he is a butcher at 2B, but with the lack of impact bats on the market this winter, he's going to play where he wants to.

 

I agree. There are options if Ramirez walks. The hard part is-how would Hendry lure free agents to Chicago to a team now without Ramirez? If he could, here's about what he would have to do:

Trade for A-rod

Sign Soriano (CF)

Sign Durham

Sign Platoon Partner

 

Leaving a lineup of

Soriano

Murton

Lee

A-Rod

Jones/Platoon Partner

Barrett

Durham

Izturis

 

That lineup would be productive enough, and would still leave us some money for pitching (the loss of A-Ram coupled with the payroll increase and the salaries already gone would give us a ton of money to spend).

I think the whole process is a great deal easier with re-signing Ramirez, and I certainly hope they do-but I still think there's a possibility, even if it be small, of fielding a good team without him next year.

[soapy]

is it just me, or dont any of you remember how Aram picked up the slack when D-Lee got hurt?? all i remember is him dogging it and slacking?? I dont think he deserves D-Lee money, he's not a D-lee type player, hes a second tier guy, not a team leader, which he proved when Lee got hurt...so im not too sad that he opted out...do i want him back? yeah if he starts to hustle, if not, i wont be too sad if he goes....

 

Lee was out most of the season. Why focus on only two months of that time? In fact, Lee played the first half of April, so really you're talking about one and a half months of the season and using that to dismiss the need for the Cubs to hold on to their most productive offensive player over the last three years because all you "remember is him dogging it and slacking."

 

Sound reasoning.

 

Ramirez in 2006:

 

April: 71 ABs; .197/.321/.394 (Derrek Lee had 44 ABs)

May: 109 ABs; .266/.296/.495 (Lee had zero ABs)

June: 105 ABs; .276/.325/.476 (Lee had 22 ABs)

July: 96 ABs; .344/.414/.750 (Lee had 53 ABs)

August: 111 ABs; .333/.400/640 (Lee with 12 ABs)

September: 98 ABs; .306/.346/.551 (Lee had 44 ABs)

 

Ramirez was VERY productive. He played in the most games of his career and he improved greatly on defense.

 

Oh, I guess he's just a "second tier" guy though because of the few grounders he didn't bust ass down the line on.

[Backtobanks]

 

Ramirez' bat can be replaced at a different position, preferably an outfielder via trade.

 

If the Cubs could then shock us all and bring either Tejada or A-Rod to Chicago, no one will miss Aramis Ramirez. The next Ron Santo in fan support he ain't.

 

Don, if Ramirez walks, you then have to sign or aquire 2 impact bats to improve. Thjat's going to be next to impossible this winter.

 

As far as being the next Ron Santo in terms of fan support, I'd rather people be indifferent to him and he continue to outproduce every other 3B in team history than be popular.

 

I am in the camp that believes that Ramirez NEEDS to be re-signed, but Hendry could sign Soriano and Carlos Lee and put Soriano at 2B, or sign Soriano and trade for Sheffield.

 

If the Cubs sign Soriano (which I believe they will), there are a number of OF possibilities: Lee, Sheffield, Wells, Burrell, etc. Personally, I would re-sign Ramirez, sign Soriano and try and trade for Vernon Wells or sign Lee.

 

On a semi-related note, I find myself wondering why people are assuming Soriano will be an OF next season. Sure he is a butcher at 2B, but with the lack of impact bats on the market this winter, he's going to play where he wants to.

 

I agree. There are options if Ramirez walks. The hard part is-how would Hendry lure free agents to Chicago to a team now without Ramirez? If he could, here's about what he would have to do:

Trade for A-rod

Sign Soriano (CF)

Sign Durham

Sign Platoon Partner

 

Leaving a lineup of

Soriano

Murton

Lee

A-Rod

Jones/Platoon Partner

Barrett

Durham

Izturis

 

That lineup would be productive enough, and would still leave us some money for pitching (the loss of A-Ram coupled with the payroll increase and the salaries already gone would give us a ton of money to spend).

I think the whole process is a great deal easier with re-signing Ramirez, and I certainly hope they do-but I still think there's a possibility, even if it be small, of fielding a good team without him next year.

 

Everybody who claims there are options if ARam walks is forgetting that his replacement is going to cost the Cubs some players in trade. These players could be used to improve the Cubs by playing or being used in another deal to fill one of the other holes on the team. So ARod or Tejada could likely match ARam's production, but the team would be stripped of 3-4 prospects that could fill other holes. The only FA option would be Nomar and that include a huge decrease in power at 3B.

[Soul]

Anyone who thinks we're going to acquire both ARod and Soriano is sadly fooling themselves. With all due respect, of course.

 

Look. If ARam walks, our offense is going to be lacking in power in '07. There's no way around that. Hendry will be lucky to pull off a deal or acquisition for ONE of the top free agents out there. It might be just Schmitty----and that's it. Big deals don't grow on trees, and neither does the kind of money that pays $15million/yr.

 

There's nothing in Hendry's history that shows he can pull off multiple cream-of-the-crop deals in a single offseason, anyway. I'm not even sure he can grab even a single top player, to be honest. He was making those deals in '03 and '04 dealing from a position of strength. And even then it was basically one big deal per offseason. Now the shelves are empty. It's a whole different ballgame for Jimbo, and he's holding a poor hand.

[daske17]

Anyone who thinks we're going to acquire both ARod and Soriano is sadly fooling themselves. With all due respect, of course.

 

Look. If ARam walks, our offense is going to be lacking in power in '07. There's no way around that. Hendry will be lucky to pull off a deal or acquisition for ONE of the top free agents out there. It might be just Schmitty----and that's it. Big deals don't grow on trees, and neither does the kind of money that pays $15million/yr.

 

There's nothing in Hendry's history that shows he can pull off multiple cream-of-the-crop deals in a single offseason, anyway. I'm not even sure he can grab even a single top player, to be honest. He was making those deals in '03 and '04 dealing from a position of strength. And even then it was basically one big deal per offseason. Now the shelves are empty. It's a whole different ballgame for Jimbo, and he's holding a poor hand.

 

If it's one thing that the Tigers have shown us, it's that if you overpay a player, they will come to you. With the potential of A-Ram off the books, as well as the Tribune kicking up the payroll and several other chunks of change from departing players, Hendry has the opportunity to overpay for talent.

 

Given the dire straits the Cubs are in (if or when Ramirez leaves), that's the only recourse Hendry has. As you say, the Cubs don't have the minor league talent for trades, but they do have baskets of money at their disposal.

 

I think the important thing to keep in mind is, will Hendry overpay for the RIGHT players. In that instance, I don't think he's the best judge. He's shown the ability to pay who he wants what it will take, but

[USSoccer]

Anyone who thinks we're going to acquire both ARod and Soriano is sadly fooling themselves. With all due respect, of course.

 

Look. If ARam walks, our offense is going to be lacking in power in '07. There's no way around that. Hendry will be lucky to pull off a deal or acquisition for ONE of the top free agents out there. It might be just Schmitty----and that's it. Big deals don't grow on trees, and neither does the kind of money that pays $15million/yr.

 

There's nothing in Hendry's history that shows he can pull off multiple cream-of-the-crop deals in a single offseason, anyway. I'm not even sure he can grab even a single top player, to be honest. He was making those deals in '03 and '04 dealing from a position of strength. And even then it was basically one big deal per offseason. Now the shelves are empty. It's a whole different ballgame for Jimbo, and he's holding a poor hand.

 

If it's one thing that the Tigers have shown us, it's that if you overpay a player, they will come to you. With the potential of A-Ram off the books, as well as the Tribune kicking up the payroll and several other chunks of change from departing players, Hendry has the opportunity to overpay for talent.

 

Given the dire straits the Cubs are in (if or when Ramirez leaves), that's the only recourse Hendry has. As you say, the Cubs don't have the minor league talent for trades, but they do have baskets of money at their disposal.

 

I think the important thing to keep in mind is, will Hendry overpay for the RIGHT players. In that instance, I don't think he's the best judge. He's shown the ability to pay who he wants what it will take, but

 

Since Ramirez is the best FA bat available, why wouldn't you overpay to keep him, instead of overpaying for the overrated Carlos Lee?

 

You have 3 "premier" offensive FA's: Ramirez, Soriano and Lee. If you were going to overpay one of them, Ramirez would be the one to do it with. He's far and away superior to Lee, and he's better than Soriano as well.

[HoopsCubs]

Hendry didn't trade Ramirez when he could have gotten a boatload for him, now it's time to bite the bullet and give the man his money.

 

Do we know that for a fact? Ramirez had no trade protection according to today's papers - maybe he vetoed a trade.

 

I like Aramis. But, you can put me in the group that believes the Cubs will be fine even if he signs with somebody else.

[Soul]

Anyone who thinks we're going to acquire both ARod and Soriano is sadly fooling themselves. With all due respect, of course.

 

Look. If ARam walks, our offense is going to be lacking in power in '07. There's no way around that. Hendry will be lucky to pull off a deal or acquisition for ONE of the top free agents out there. It might be just Schmitty----and that's it. Big deals don't grow on trees, and neither does the kind of money that pays $15million/yr.

 

There's nothing in Hendry's history that shows he can pull off multiple cream-of-the-crop deals in a single offseason, anyway. I'm not even sure he can grab even a single top player, to be honest. He was making those deals in '03 and '04 dealing from a position of strength. And even then it was basically one big deal per offseason. Now the shelves are empty. It's a whole different ballgame for Jimbo, and he's holding a poor hand.

 

If it's one thing that the Tigers have shown us, it's that if you overpay a player, they will come to you. With the potential of A-Ram off the books, as well as the Tribune kicking up the payroll and several other chunks of change from departing players, Hendry has the opportunity to overpay for talent.

 

Given the dire straits the Cubs are in (if or when Ramirez leaves), that's the only recourse Hendry has. As you say, the Cubs don't have the minor league talent for trades, but they do have baskets of money at their disposal.

 

I think the important thing to keep in mind is, will Hendry overpay for the RIGHT players. In that instance, I don't think he's the best judge. He's shown the ability to pay who he wants what it will take, but

 

Since Ramirez is the best FA bat available, why wouldn't you overpay to keep him, instead of overpaying for the overrated Carlos Lee?

 

You have 3 "premier" offensive FA's: Ramirez, Soriano and Lee. If you were going to overpay one of them, Ramirez would be the one to do it with. He's far and away superior to Lee, and he's better than Soriano as well.

 

Interestingly enough (perhaps ironic?), I trust Ramirez's glove more than Soriano's......and Ramirez came with the poor defense tag firmly attached. He's certainly not great, but I think he's made at least some improvements since joining the Cubs where it seems as though Soriano has only regressed.

 

I'm starting to think this entire offseason hinges on Ramirez. I can see a lotta lotta air being let out of that shiny new Jimbo/Lou balloon if he gets away.

[jmajew]

Anyone who thinks we're going to acquire both ARod and Soriano is sadly fooling themselves. With all due respect, of course.

 

Look. If ARam walks, our offense is going to be lacking in power in '07. There's no way around that. Hendry will be lucky to pull off a deal or acquisition for ONE of the top free agents out there. It might be just Schmitty----and that's it. Big deals don't grow on trees, and neither does the kind of money that pays $15million/yr.

 

There's nothing in Hendry's history that shows he can pull off multiple cream-of-the-crop deals in a single offseason, anyway. I'm not even sure he can grab even a single top player, to be honest. He was making those deals in '03 and '04 dealing from a position of strength. And even then it was basically one big deal per offseason. Now the shelves are empty. It's a whole different ballgame for Jimbo, and he's holding a poor hand.

 

If it's one thing that the Tigers have shown us, it's that if you overpay a player, they will come to you. With the potential of A-Ram off the books, as well as the Tribune kicking up the payroll and several other chunks of change from departing players, Hendry has the opportunity to overpay for talent.

 

Given the dire straits the Cubs are in (if or when Ramirez leaves), that's the only recourse Hendry has. As you say, the Cubs don't have the minor league talent for trades, but they do have baskets of money at their disposal.

 

I think the important thing to keep in mind is, will Hendry overpay for the RIGHT players. In that instance, I don't think he's the best judge. He's shown the ability to pay who he wants what it will take, but

 

Since Ramirez is the best FA bat available, why wouldn't you overpay to keep him, instead of overpaying for the overrated Carlos Lee?

 

You have 3 "premier" offensive FA's: Ramirez, Soriano and Lee. If you were going to overpay one of them, Ramirez would be the one to do it with. He's far and away superior to Lee, and he's better than Soriano as well.

 

Of course Ramirez has not only put up the best numbers but he is also the youngest of those three. So you would be getting him during his prime. The Cubs need to offer up 5/75 and start from there. I'm sure Hendry has been low balling him. Dont' forget last year Konerko was the big bat on the market and the highest contract I believe he was offered was 5/65, but he settled for 5/60. With that said I can't see teams like the Angels, Orioles, Dodgers offering much more. I think as of now guys like Soriano, Aramis, and Carlos Lee are being very unrealistic. CLee should get no more than Konerko and and Soriano and Armais should only get marginally more than Konerko. Soriano 5/70 and Aramis 5/75. That is just my opinion though.

[USSoccer]

Hendry didn't trade Ramirez when he could have gotten a boatload for him, now it's time to bite the bullet and give the man his money.

 

Do we know that for a fact? Ramirez had no trade protection according to today's papers - maybe he vetoed a trade.

 

I like Aramis. But, you can put me in the group that believes the Cubs will be fine even if he signs with somebody else.

 

Based on what? He's the best FA bat out there. He walks, you need 2 bats to make up for it and improve. I've heard Gary Sheffield's name bandied about. You'd rather have a broken down Sheffield than Ramirez? Carlos Lee? He's wildly overrated, and can only play LF, which is a position that id ably filled by a cheap, good young player. Soriano? I'd like him in CF or 2B, but he's going to cost more than Ramirez, is older, and not as good. Trade for ARod? We don't have the parts to compete with Anaheim and the White Sox, if it comes to that.

 

Ramirez is the best offensive player on the team. You just don't find guys to replace him laying around. He leaves, and we will not compete in 2007.

[Soul]

Hendry didn't trade Ramirez when he could have gotten a boatload for him, now it's time to bite the bullet and give the man his money.

 

Do we know that for a fact? Ramirez had no trade protection according to today's papers - maybe he vetoed a trade.

 

I like Aramis. But, you can put me in the group that believes the Cubs will be fine even if he signs with somebody else.

 

Based on what? He's the best FA bat out there. He walks, you need 2 bats to make up for it and improve. I've heard Gary Sheffield's name bandied about. You'd rather have a broken down Sheffield than Ramirez? Carlos Lee? He's wildly overrated, and can only play LF, which is a position that id ably filled by a cheap, good young player. Soriano? I'd like him in CF or 2B, but he's going to cost more than Ramirez, is older, and not as good. Trade for ARod? We don't have the parts to compete with Anaheim and the White Sox, if it comes to that.

 

Ramirez is the best offensive player on the team. You just don't find guys to replace him laying around. He leaves, and we will not compete in 2007.

 

I usually wait until March when most of the deals are done to make my early prediction. But I must agree in this case. I don't see any way we compete in 2007 if Aramis Ramirez leaves.

[cjbucks]

Has anybody considered the fact the maybe he intends to sign but he's you know............doggin' it on his way over to sign the contract? :wink: