Murton & Cedeno have disappeared in May.

[abuck1220]

Slick,

 

Florida's apparently on the verge of dealing off Willis. Florida has no chance of contending any time soon. That rotation is very thin. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't recall Florida ever gutting payroll like this. This is Tampa-like.

 

Poo poo this if you want, but if Prior & Lee return the Cubs can contend. Lets remember the 2 most valuable Cubs aren't playing.

 

you honestly think that getting ONE guy back is going to turn the second worst offense in baseball to an offense capable of contending for a world series?

 

i'd trade all the players and contracts in the marlins system for all the players and contracts in the cubs system.

[CubfaninCA]

Slick,

 

Florida's apparently on the verge of dealing off Willis. Florida has no chance of contending any time soon. That rotation is very thin. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't recall Florida ever gutting payroll like this. This is Tampa-like.

 

Poo poo this if you want, but if Prior & Lee return the Cubs can contend. Lets remember the 2 most valuable Cubs aren't playing.

 

you honestly think that getting ONE guy back is going to turn the second worst offense in baseball to an offense capable of contending for a world series?

 

i'd trade all the players and contracts in the marlins system for all the players and contracts in the cubs system.

 

they've almost buried themselves this year, but i think they can be a playoff team next year, w/ a major personnel move or two.

 

floria otoh is nowhere close.

[XZero771679666304]

Slick,

 

Florida's apparently on the verge of dealing off Willis. Florida has no chance of contending any time soon. That rotation is very thin. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't recall Florida ever gutting payroll like this. This is Tampa-like.

 

Poo poo this if you want, but if Prior & Lee return the Cubs can contend. Lets remember the 2 most valuable Cubs aren't playing.

 

you honestly think that getting ONE guy back is going to turn the second worst offense in baseball to an offense capable of contending for a world series?

 

i'd trade all the players and contracts in the marlins system for all the players and contracts in the cubs system.

 

they've almost buried themselves this year, but i think they can be a playoff team next year, w/ a major personnel move or two.

 

floria otoh is nowhere close.

 

Next year, sure. Lose Pierre, promote Pie, platoon Jones and Murton, sign Carlos Lee and a SP or two and we're in good shape in 2007.

 

This year is lost, IMO.

[XZero771679666304]

As for Florida, they do have Jacobs, Willingham, Ramirez, Cabrera and others, and could be a very good team in a couple of years. The problem is that Cabrera and Willis probably won't be around to help that happen.

[Outshined_One]

I will say this about Florida.

 

While farm systems, prospects, and young players are never sure things, they have an incredible combination of quality and quantity that will likely only get better should they deal off Cabrera/Willis. Which is what they should do before both get expensive and also considering they have no chance of contending this year. The Marlins understand what it means to sell high.

 

It has come to their long-term detriment and ability to build a dynasty, but they lack the financial resources and fanbase to pull it off. Blame who you want for it, whether you despise Jeff Loria, think the fans are incredibly fairweather and apathetic, something else, or a combination of the above factors. They've managed to assemble a team that's won two World Series within a very short period of time, that produces excellent players, and that they sell very high for. While they could have kept the team intact and could have competed for the NL East this year, they chose to start over again.

 

Much like in previous years they've gone through the rebuilding process, they have a number of promising young players and prospects. Hanley Ramirez might win NL ROY. Jeremy Hermida is incredibly promising. Josh Willingham is a really good hitter. Pitchers such as Scott Olsen, Josh Johnson, Ricky Nolasco, and Yusmeiro Petit are already up with the big league team getting meaningful playing time. Guys like Anibal Sanchez, Aaron Thompson, Chris Volstad, Taylor Tankersley, Kris Harvey, Ryan Tucker, and a number of other quality prospects are down on the farm.

 

Florida will be improved next season. In two-three years, they'll be back in contention.

[RynoRules]

To be fair - some of the 03' Fish and whether they were developed in the FL system:

 

Pierre (no)

Castillo (yes)

Lowell (no)

Lee (no)

Conine (no)

Holly (no)

Gonzalez (yes?)

IRod (no)

 

I think the majority of their starting pitching was developed in their system, though its arguable whether Burnett was. I say "yes". Urbina and most of the pen were not.

[soapy]

florida & their kids are awful. the organization is a disgrace

 

that's what it says on their world series trophies probably - you kids are a disgrace.

 

At least they've shown they know how to build a winner...twice.

[soapy]

is 70 wins better than 50 when you haven't won a world series since 1908?

 

And your payroll is 8 times the team that got 50?

[Tracer Bullet]

florida & their kids are awful. the organization is a disgrace

 

that's what it says on their world series trophies probably - you kids are a disgrace.

 

this is a discussion about 2006.

 

I wouldn't call the Marlins awful. And they are a whole lot more fun to watch than the Cubs right now. Those kids are playing for their major league careers and they are all getting quality major league experience that will be quite beneficial when Florida adds role players to turn the team into another potential World Series champion in a small handful of years.

 

You wouldn't want Hanley Ramirez, Jeremy Hermida, Josh Willingham, Dan Uggla on your team?

 

While the Cubs continue spinning their wheels in mediocrity, Florida will rebuild and crush the Cubs in a few years. Heck, they're crushing the Cubs now.

 

Its really the only way (and the best way) for the team to eventually field a championship contender. They trade away all their quality veterans they no longer can pay for, stock up on young talent, groom 'em, and when its all set and ready, stock up on some free agent role players and make a run. Its allowed them to steal away 2 World Series trophies in little over a decade of existence. Considering how small market the team is, its pretty darn impressive.

 

It certainly is more impressive than the wheel of mediocrity that is turned every year here in Chicago. Every year we trade away promising talent from our farm system, stock up on mediocre free agents over the hill and past a prime that wasn't...and well, you know the rest.

 

The Cubs were a Bartman interference away from taking it in 2003. Huzienga spent like a fiend in 1997. Iirc they spent like crazy on free agents. The Trib would never allow that.

 

Come on - Bartman? I'm pretty sure they were one AGon muffed double-play ball away from getting to the WS - beating the Yankees when they got there was not a sure thing.

[Tracer Bullet]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't recall Florida ever gutting payroll like this. This is Tampa-like.

 

What about the great fire sale of 1997? Alou, Kevin Brown, Renteria, etc etc.

[Chris]

Hill & Guz gave the Cubs little chance to win tho...

 

1 run in the 4 games Rich started gave the Cubs little chance to win.

[abuck1220]

you know who has put the cubs in the toilet this month? maddux.

[stitchface]

you know who has put the cubs in the toilet this month? maddux.

 

a few more starts and his trade value should be low enough for jim to consider it.

[BigbadB]

Florida may alienate their fanbase by dumping players for prospects, but they understand very well how to get the most production possible from their most productive hitters.

 

Marlins lead off hitters this year: .392 OBP/41 runs scored

Marlins #2 hitters this year: .378 OBP/34 runs scored

Marlins #3 hitters: 36 RBI

 

I'll go ahead and toss in there that both Florida's regular 1/2 hitters currently sport OBP's above .400

 

Cubs lead off hitters this year: .265 OBP/24 runs scored

Cubs #2 hitters this year: .314 OBP/21 runs scored

Cubs #3 hitters this year: 21 RBI

[Fred Hornkohl]

you know who has put the cubs in the toilet this month? maddux.

 

Just not a whole there to chose from, eh?

 

05/01 - 05/21        IP    H    R   ER   BB    K   HR    PC  BB/9   K/9  HR/9  WHIP   ERA
Maddux             21.7   32   19   18    8   13    3   324  3.32  5.40  1.25  1.85  7.48
Hill               19.3   23   20   20   15   11    5   344  6.98  5.12  2.33  1.97  9.31
Guzman             13.0   14   13   11   12   15    1   291  8.31 10.38  0.69  2.00  7.62

[CUBZ99]

Has anyone else noticed that Cedeno is having a very Neifi Perez like season?

 

.279 BA .302 OBP .366 SLG

 

Sure it is early, but is this the best they can do at SS?

[Mizzou]

Slick,

 

Florida's apparently on the verge of dealing off Willis. Florida has no chance of contending any time soon. That rotation is very thin. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't recall Florida ever gutting payroll like this. This is Tampa-like.

 

Poo poo this if you want, but if Prior & Lee return the Cubs can contend. Lets remember the 2 most valuable Cubs aren't playing.

 

you honestly think that getting ONE guy back is going to turn the second worst offense in baseball to an offense capable of contending for a world series?

I think it could happen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the Cubs were scoring over 5 runs a game before Lee got hurt. We have a huge hole to dig ourself out of, but I think that we can score enough runs to win games once Lee gets back.

[CubfaninCA]

Has anyone else noticed that Cedeno is having a very Neifi Perez like season?

 

.279 BA .302 OBP .366 SLG

 

Sure it is early, but is this the best they can do at SS?

 

I referred to him as Neifi Cedeno a few days ago.

 

Cubs seem to be high on him. Probably like his Neifiesque tendencies. With the way Cedeno was hyped, I thought he'd have a little more plate discipline.

[CubfaninCA]

Slick,

 

Florida's apparently on the verge of dealing off Willis. Florida has no chance of contending any time soon. That rotation is very thin. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't recall Florida ever gutting payroll like this. This is Tampa-like.

 

Poo poo this if you want, but if Prior & Lee return the Cubs can contend. Lets remember the 2 most valuable Cubs aren't playing.

 

you honestly think that getting ONE guy back is going to turn the second worst offense in baseball to an offense capable of contending for a world series?

I think it could happen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the Cubs were scoring over 5 runs a game before Lee got hurt. We have a huge hole to dig ourself out of, but I think that we can score enough runs to win games once Lee gets back.

 

Yep, over 5 runs a game, but that was back when Murton & Cedeno were hitting.

 

When Lee returns, I think they can get back to over 4 1/2 runs per game. Their chances of contending are slim and none for this year. They're not too far away from contending next year tho. Lots of decisions to make next year tho, w/ Wood, Prior and Maddux.

[imb]

Has anyone else noticed that Cedeno is having a very Neifi Perez like season?

 

.279 BA .302 OBP .366 SLG

 

Sure it is early, but is this the best they can do at SS?

 

I referred to him as Neifi Cedeno a few days ago.

 

Cubs seem to be high on him. Probably like his Neifiesque tendencies. With the way Cedeno was hyped, I thought he'd have a little more plate discipline.

 

Who was hyping Cedeno? He's never been able to take a walk.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Has anyone else noticed that Cedeno is having a very Neifi Perez like season?

 

.279 BA .302 OBP .366 SLG

 

Sure it is early, but is this the best they can do at SS?

 

I referred to him as Neifi Cedeno a few days ago.

 

Cubs seem to be high on him. Probably like his Neifiesque tendencies. With the way Cedeno was hyped, I thought he'd have a little more plate discipline.

 

Who was hyping Cedeno? He's never been able to take a walk.

 

Yep. Many people didn't predict gaudy numbers from Ronny this year. Maybe better than a .668 OPS, but we'll have to see how the season progresses.

[CubinNY]

Has anyone else noticed that Cedeno is having a very Neifi Perez like season?

 

.279 BA .302 OBP .366 SLG

 

Sure it is early, but is this the best they can do at SS?

 

I referred to him as Neifi Cedeno a few days ago.

 

Cubs seem to be high on him. Probably like his Neifiesque tendencies. With the way Cedeno was hyped, I thought he'd have a little more plate discipline.

 

Then you haven't paid attention to his minor league or winter league numbers. Regardless, HE'S A ROOKIE (not technically, but practicaly). There is a great probability that he will get better next year and for many years to come. Cedeno will probably never have much power or take a lot of walks, but for a SS he probably will hit pretty well.

 

Your obsessive need to take the contrary side of every issue is tiresome.

[CUBZ99]

Has anyone else noticed that Cedeno is having a very Neifi Perez like season?

 

.279 BA .302 OBP .366 SLG

 

Sure it is early, but is this the best they can do at SS?

 

I referred to him as Neifi Cedeno a few days ago.

 

Cubs seem to be high on him. Probably like his Neifiesque tendencies. With the way Cedeno was hyped, I thought he'd have a little more plate discipline.

 

Who was hyping Cedeno? He's never been able to take a walk.

 

So he is bascially Neifi with more errors? :roll:

[abuck1220]

Slick,

 

Florida's apparently on the verge of dealing off Willis. Florida has no chance of contending any time soon. That rotation is very thin. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't recall Florida ever gutting payroll like this. This is Tampa-like.

 

Poo poo this if you want, but if Prior & Lee return the Cubs can contend. Lets remember the 2 most valuable Cubs aren't playing.

 

you honestly think that getting ONE guy back is going to turn the second worst offense in baseball to an offense capable of contending for a world series?

I think it could happen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the Cubs were scoring over 5 runs a game before Lee got hurt. We have a huge hole to dig ourself out of, but I think that we can score enough runs to win games once Lee gets back.

 

that was, what, 14-15 games? additionally, during that time the cubs were hitting WAY over their head w/ RISP, a trend that most people knew wouldn't continue.

 

i don't think the offense will be even average once lee gets back. they'd still have a terrible offensive outfield, and i don't think they can overcome that.

[imb]

Has anyone else noticed that Cedeno is having a very Neifi Perez like season?

 

.279 BA .302 OBP .366 SLG

 

Sure it is early, but is this the best they can do at SS?

 

I referred to him as Neifi Cedeno a few days ago.

 

Cubs seem to be high on him. Probably like his Neifiesque tendencies. With the way Cedeno was hyped, I thought he'd have a little more plate discipline.

 

Who was hyping Cedeno? He's never been able to take a walk.

 

So he is bascially Neifi with more errors? :roll:

 

He's a younger, cheaper, more likely to improve version of Neifi, if that's what you mean.