Murton & Cedeno have disappeared in May.

[Fred Hornkohl]

 

o rly? Whats the record of the Cubs when Murton is in the 2 hole?

 

I don't think the constant shuffling of the lineup helps the "kids"

 

Team record by second hitter

 

CUBS are 6-15 when Cedeno hits in the second spot
CUBS are 1-1 when Pierre hits in the second spot
CUBS are 6-3 when Walker hits in the second spot
CUBS are 1-1 when Bynum hits in the second spot
CUBS are 1-4 when Hairston hits in the second spot
CUBS are 1-1 when Perez hits in the second spot
CUBS are 2-1 when Murton hits in the second spot

[RynoRules]

 

o rly? Whats the record of the Cubs when Murton is in the 2 hole?

 

I don't think the constant shuffling of the lineup helps the "kids"

 

Team record by second hitter

 

CUBS are 6-15 when Cedeno hits in the second spot
CUBS are 1-1 when Pierre hits in the second spot
CUBS are 6-3 when Walker hits in the second spot
CUBS are 1-1 when Bynum hits in the second spot
CUBS are 1-4 when Hairston hits in the second spot
CUBS are 1-1 when Perez hits in the second spot
CUBS are 2-1 when Murton hits in the second spot

 

Its settled then - Murton should hit second until Lee gets back, and if not, it should be Bynum....

 

:wink:

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

o rly? Whats the record of the Cubs when Murton is in the 2 hole?

 

I don't think the constant shuffling of the lineup helps the "kids"

 

Team record by second hitter

 

CUBS are 6-15 when Cedeno hits in the second spot
CUBS are 1-1 when Pierre hits in the second spot
CUBS are 6-3 when Walker hits in the second spot
CUBS are 1-1 when Bynum hits in the second spot
CUBS are 1-4 when Hairston hits in the second spot
CUBS are 1-1 when Perez hits in the second spot
CUBS are 2-1 when Murton hits in the second spot

 

Its settled then - Murton should hit second until Lee gets back, and if not, it should be Bynum....

 

:wink:

 

Blasphemy! Walker all the way, he even has the sample size on his side!

[Sammy Sofa]

Slap

Walker

Barrett

Jock

Aramis

Cedeno

Murton

Hairston/Mabry/etc.

pitcher

 

Ech.

[CubfaninCA]

 

Apparently you are not one of the "cool" kids cubfaninCA. people get maimed and flamed for offering opinions on this board that are contrary to the public sentiment here.

 

Just keep on, keeping on. Discussion and debate is the foundation of this country. I like reading the off the wall stuff cause it makes me think even harder.

 

i need to rip pierre, rusch, jones and nef more often.

 

No, you just have to stop being a troll by purposefully starting argument with ignorant statements like the kids are bringing the team into the toilet when other non-kids have been just as bad.

 

That was just an incredibly stupid thing for you to write and you deserve to have people rip it. You were obviously just looking for a fight, which is what you do 75% of the time you post.

 

The kids have been bad, so have the veterans. The kids didn't bring this team into the toilet on their own. Pierre didn't bring this team into the toilet on his own.

 

Perhaps I should have written the kids have helped take the team down the toilet, but you're the last person who should lecture someone on over-the-top statements.

 

This time I'm just going to be stubborn, as you & many others have been, and stick to my guns. :D

[Fred Hornkohl]

 

o rly? Whats the record of the Cubs when Murton is in the 2 hole?

 

I don't think the constant shuffling of the lineup helps the "kids"

 

Team record by second hitter

 

CUBS are 6-15 when Cedeno hits in the second spot
CUBS are 1-1 when Pierre hits in the second spot
CUBS are 6-3 when Walker hits in the second spot
CUBS are 1-1 when Bynum hits in the second spot
CUBS are 1-4 when Hairston hits in the second spot
CUBS are 1-1 when Perez hits in the second spot
CUBS are 2-1 when Murton hits in the second spot

 

Its settled then - Murton should hit second until Lee gets back, and if not, it should be Bynum....

 

:wink:

 

Hell... Bynum is the hottest hitter on the team during the last month. He's gotta play more !! :wink:

 

04/26 - 05/22      AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
Bynum              21    2    6    0    2    1   13    3    1    7  0.286  0.348  0.619  0.967
Ramirez            90   13   25    7    0    6   50   12    6    6  0.278  0.327  0.556  0.882
Jones              80    7   26    4    0    4   42   11    3   12  0.325  0.357  0.525  0.882
Barrett            59    3   16    2    2    1   25    2    9    5  0.271  0.377  0.424  0.801
Restovich           8    0    2    1    0    0    3    1    1    2  0.250  0.333  0.375  0.708
Walker             81    4   19    5    0    0   24    9   10   11  0.235  0.312  0.296  0.608
Cedeno             96    6   25    0    1    1   30    6    2   20  0.260  0.273  0.313  0.585
Murton             73    9   17    1    0    0   18    4    8   13  0.233  0.317  0.247  0.564
Pierre            104   10   23    3    1    0   28    0    6    9  0.221  0.270  0.269  0.540
Hairston           49    3    9    2    0    0   11    3    2    8  0.184  0.231  0.224  0.455
Perez              49    3    9    1    0    0   10    4    3    2  0.184  0.226  0.204  0.430
Mabry              40    1    5    0    0    0    5    0    5   10  0.125  0.239  0.125  0.364
Theriot             4    1    0    0    0    0    0    0    1    1  0.000  0.200  0.000  0.200
Blanco             28    0    1    0    0    0    1    2    3    4  0.036  0.125  0.036  0.161

25 game totals    820   64  188   27    6   13  266   59   61  120  0.229  0.287  0.324  0.612

season totals    1450  160  353   57   11   31  525  147  112  227  0.243  0.300  0.362  0.662

[goonys evil twin]

Perhaps I should have written the kids have helped take the team down the toilet, but you're the last person who should lecture someone on over-the-top statements.

 

This time I'm just going to be stubborn, as you & many others have been, and stick to my guns. :D

 

The kids have helped bring them into the toilet. What have I said that's over the top?

 

Admitting you are wrong and then sticking to your guns anyway would just reiterate the trollish behavior.

 

You know they haven't brought the team into the toilet. You knew that before you started the thread. You knew that veterans were just as bad.

[sethuel1]

Slap

Walker

Barrett

Jock

Aramis

Cedeno

Murton

Hairston/Mabry/etc.

pitcher

 

Ech.

 

1. Anyone on the roster

2. Anyone on the roster

3. Anyone on the roster

4. Anyone on the roster

5. Anyone on the roster

6. Anyone on the roster

7. Anyone on the roster

8. Anyone on the roster

9. Pitcher

 

Ech.

[Sammy Sofa]

Even an uninjured Lee?

[CubinNY]

The Big Murt with a dong.

[otis89]

The Big Murt with a dong.

 

He took this post as a challenge. I hope patient Murton is returning. A walk in his first at-bat, and he took the first 2 pitches before homering in his second at-bat.

[TruffleShuffle]

I don't see the problem with this thread. If you're going to have threads about how badly Pierre and Jones suck, then why not a thread about how bad Cedeno and Murton have been? Yeah, they have low salaries, but the Cubs offense is depending on them just as much as it depends on Pierre or Jones. The whole team sucks, start threads on how much every player sucks.

[CubfaninCA]

Perhaps I should have written the kids have helped take the team down the toilet, but you're the last person who should lecture someone on over-the-top statements.

 

This time I'm just going to be stubborn, as you & many others have been, and stick to my guns. :D

 

The kids have helped bring them into the toilet. What have I said that's over the top?

 

Admitting you are wrong and then sticking to your guns anyway would just reiterate the trollish behavior.

 

You know they haven't brought the team into the toilet. You knew that before you started the thread. You knew that veterans were just as bad.

 

The vets haven't been as bad, but why bother debating someone who has never been wrong.

 

What got some people so ticked was revisiting last year when some said the cubs should model the braves and bring the kids up. Well, the cubs brought up a bunch of kids and they've mostly stunk this may.

 

The rooks have killed the Cubs.

[CubfaninCA]

The Big Murt with a dong.

 

He took this post as a challenge. I hope patient Murton is returning. A walk in his first at-bat, and he took the first 2 pitches before homering in his second at-bat.

 

Baker put this on the bulletin board. :wink:

[Jon]

Perhaps I should have written the kids have helped take the team down the toilet, but you're the last person who should lecture someone on over-the-top statements.

 

This time I'm just going to be stubborn, as you & many others have been, and stick to my guns. :D

 

The kids have helped bring them into the toilet. What have I said that's over the top?

 

Admitting you are wrong and then sticking to your guns anyway would just reiterate the trollish behavior.

 

You know they haven't brought the team into the toilet. You knew that before you started the thread. You knew that veterans were just as bad.

 

The vets haven't been as bad, but why bother debating someone who has never been wrong.

 

What got some people so ticked was revisiting last year when some said the cubs should model the braves and bring the kids up. Well, the cubs brought up a bunch of kids and they've mostly stunk this may.

 

The rooks have killed the Cubs.

Then you do actually believe that they're the primary cause?

 

So you didn't mean this?

Perhaps I should have written the kids have helped take the team down the toilet, but you're the last person who should lecture someone on over-the-top statements.

[CubfaninCA]

Perhaps I should have written the kids have helped take the team down the toilet, but you're the last person who should lecture someone on over-the-top statements.

 

This time I'm just going to be stubborn, as you & many others have been, and stick to my guns. :D

 

The kids have helped bring them into the toilet. What have I said that's over the top?

 

Admitting you are wrong and then sticking to your guns anyway would just reiterate the trollish behavior.

 

You know they haven't brought the team into the toilet. You knew that before you started the thread. You knew that veterans were just as bad.

 

The vets haven't been as bad, but why bother debating someone who has never been wrong.

 

What got some people so ticked was revisiting last year when some said the cubs should model the braves and bring the kids up. Well, the cubs brought up a bunch of kids and they've mostly stunk this may.

 

The rooks have killed the Cubs.

Then you do actually believe that they're the primary cause?

 

So you didn't mean this?

Perhaps I should have written the kids have helped take the team down the toilet, but you're the last person who should lecture someone on over-the-top statements.

 

first, I said "perhaps." To be more nsbb p.c., i should i went w/ "killed the cubs." These kids have really disappointed me, especially considering all the hype & hollering for them. criticizing them should not be off-limits.

 

second, exclude the injuries & go with the available players, I'd go w/ primary reason considering the 0-7 by Hill & Guz, and Cedeno & Murt's May no show. sure pierre and walker have sucked this month, and i've said so in various other threads, but the combined performance of the 4 kids is a lot more hurtful. i'm not going to put big blame on the bench players/replacements for lee. i never expected much from them to being with.

[Chris]

The rooks have killed the Cubs.

 

I've seen it all

[Jon]

first, I said "perhaps." To be more nsbb p.c., i should i went w/ "killed the cubs." These kids have really disappointed me, especially considering all the hype & hollering for them. criticizing them should not be off-limits.

 

second, exclude the injuries & go with the available players, I'd go w/ primary reason considering the 0-7 by Hill & Guz, and Cedeno & Murt's May no show. sure pierre and walker have sucked this month, and i've said so in various other threads, but the combined performance of the 4 kids is a lot more hurtful. i'm not going to put big blame on the bench players/replacements for lee. i never expected much from them to being with.

If the reason you're singling out Cedeno and Murton is because your expectations were higher for them, why include Hill and Guzman, two pitchers who were brought up after the season started, were not being counted on, and only pitched with the Cubs out of necessity? And how does their failure to meet someones expectations mean that they've killed the Cubs? Hendry certainly relying on them exclusively to boost the offense (a lot of that goes towards the Pierre trade) and Dusty isn't relying on them exclusively post-Lee injury. And while Walker might be playing first, he would still be a regular in the lineup.

 

How does value to the team change based on what people say on a message board? If I had really low expectations for them, I wouldn't argue that they were less of a factor to these losses than other players. You could use numbers to show their contributions to the dive this month (probably not in April, though), but they certainly wouldn't be alone.

 

There are better ways to criticize Cedeno and Murton.

[TruffleShuffle]

second, exclude the injuries & go with the available players, I'd go w/ primary reason considering the 0-7 by Hill & Guz, and Cedeno & Murt's May no show. sure pierre and walker have sucked this month, and i've said so in various other threads, but the combined performance of the 4 kids is a lot more hurtful. i'm not going to put big blame on the bench players/replacements for lee. i never expected much from them to being with.

 

Jones was brutal for most of April, Pierre has been bad all year, as has Hairston. Hell, ARam has been a liability most of the season, and Rusch has been worthless. The vets deserve probably more of the blame than the rookies, not less. They all suck.

[Knyption]

I'm convinced, Zambrano is the best young pitcher in baseball.

 

Durable, striking out more.

 

he is a beast.

 

About the kids, give them time, they all have slumps

 

watching the june performances and how they adapt to MLB scouting reports will tell us if they are budding everyday players or bench material.

 

 

 

The only people hitting in May on the entire Cubs team is Jones, Barrett, and to some extent, Ramirez. The rest have not hit. I'm not sure why you choose to point out Cedeno and Murton.

 

You wrote "the kids have taken the cubs down the toilent in may." It is simply not fair to blame the team losing on Murton and Cedeno, when there's many other players who could take as much more blame.

 

And Zambrano counts as a kid, right? He's 3-0 in May with a 1.50 ERA. and a 1.65 b.a. against.

[CubfaninCA]

second, exclude the injuries & go with the available players, I'd go w/ primary reason considering the 0-7 by Hill & Guz, and Cedeno & Murt's May no show. sure pierre and walker have sucked this month, and i've said so in various other threads, but the combined performance of the 4 kids is a lot more hurtful. i'm not going to put big blame on the bench players/replacements for lee. i never expected much from them to being with.

 

Jones was brutal for most of April, Pierre has been bad all year, as has Hairston. Hell, ARam has been a liability most of the season, and Rusch has been worthless. The vets deserve probably more of the blame than the rookies, not less. They all suck.

 

I was talking about May. Rusch hasn't been starting in May. ARam has finally got going in May. Jones has been good in May.

 

I didn't look @ the bullpen numbers for May, but I bet the vets, Howry & Eyre, have been good. Dempster's number probably look good up til tonight. :(

[Outshined_One]

Juan Pierre in May: 90 AB, .222/.263/.267/.530

Todd Walker in May: 73 AB, .219/.289/.288/.577

Neifi Perez in May: 42 ABs, .214/.244/.262/.506

Combined XBHs: 10

Combined HRs: 0

[Chris]

Cedeno=tied for the team lead in hits in May

[abuck1220]

it's hard to criticize the "play the kids" philosophy while the cubs are in the midst of getting it handed to them by a lineup of seven rookies and a handful of rookie pitchers.

 

by the way, murton and cedeno (2-6, hr, 2 rbis, bb, 2 runs) sure as hell outperformed walker, aram, pierre, jones (1-16) and dempster tonight.

[CubfaninCA]

it's hard to criticize the "play the kids" philosophy while the cubs are in the midst of getting it handed to them by a lineup of seven rookies and a handful of rookie pitchers.

 

by the way, murton and cedeno (2-6, hr, 2 rbis, bb, 2 runs) sure as hell outperformed walker, aram, pierre, jones (1-16) and dempster tonight.

 

What's florida's record?

 

Good night for cedeno & murt. Good to see.