Jacque Jones: Can We Trade him for Corey Patterson?

[snoodmonger]

Jones has been awful, but the way some of the fans are acting these days is embarrassing to me as a Cubs fan.

[Andy]

Jones has been awful, but the way some of the fans are acting these days is embarrassing to me as a Cubs fan.

Wholeheartedly agree. They're acting like hooligans out there right now.

[soccer10k]

for a team that's lost 14 of 17 there sure seems to be a lot of blameless parties. apparently this horrendous stretch is simply nobody's fault.

 

And I'm trying to say that more people than just Jones should be blamed. I agree that Jones isn't free from blame, but it seems like he is used as a scapegoat more than anybody else. At first it was his hitting. But then he started to hit and people moved on to something else. The guy had something thrown at him today. Is that really justified? No. A lot of people look at his contract (which isn't his fault) and don't give him a chance to play. I don't mind placing some blame on Jacque but blame other people also. I brought this up in another thread, but Aramis deserves more blame than Jones does right now as does Pierre. The pitching staff hasn't exactly been up to par either.

 

yeah, because tons of people in this thread have been saying that throwing stuff at jones is justified. come on. and who hasn't given him a chance to play? nobody here is stopping him. what does that even mean?

 

jones deserves the blame he's gotten b/c he's been awful. he's sucked offensively, defensively, and on the bases. just b/c everyone else has sucked too doesn't mean jones gets a free pass.

 

By just give him a chance to play I mean that people have been booing him from the start. Even before he stepped foot on the field he was being criticized because of his contract. Look back at the first week of the season, and he was getting ripped because of his slow start.

 

Jones has been awful? I beg to differ. Where on earth do you get that from? Is there another Jacque Jones that I don't know about? Right now Jones is on pace for 29 HR (a career high) and 83 RBI's (almost a career high - 85). He's currently hitting 264/301/472/773 which are currently 5th/5th/2nd/2nd on the team for players with over 90 AB's. His BA and SLG are up from the previous two years but his OBP is down slightly. Where do you get awful from? Aramis has been awful. Pierre has been awful. Jones has been average.

 

I'm not saying that he should be free from blame and shouldn't be given a free pass so I don't know where you got that one from.

[snoodmonger]

He's currently hitting 264/301/472/773 which are currently 5th/5th/2nd/2nd on the team for players with over 90 AB's.

 

all that proves is that everyone else has been equally or more awful.

 

His BA and SLG are up from the previous two years but his OBP is down slightly. Where do you get awful from? Aramis has been awful. Pierre has been awful. Jones has been average.

 

When relating his current numbers to his own career stats, you have to realize his career--especially the last two years--has been pretty mediocre/bad. So the fact he's improved relative to his own suckiness doesn't mean he isn't bad.

 

That said, I agree that Jones--relative to what we'd hoped he might contribute--hasn't been our biggest problem, and it probably isn't fair that he's received so much of the fans' anger.

[sethuel1]

Whoa. Jones almost got hit in the face by a fan in the RF bleachers:

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap?gid=260516116

[soccer10k]

He's currently hitting 264/301/472/773 which are currently 5th/5th/2nd/2nd on the team for players with over 90 AB's.

 

all that proves is that everyone else has been equally or more awful.

 

His BA and SLG are up from the previous two years but his OBP is down slightly. Where do you get awful from? Aramis has been awful. Pierre has been awful. Jones has been average.

 

When relating his current numbers to his own career stats, you have to realize his career--especially the last two years--has been pretty mediocre/bad. So the fact he's improved relative to his own suckiness doesn't mean he isn't bad.

 

That said, I agree that Jones--relative to what we'd hoped he might contribute--hasn't been our biggest problem, and it probably isn't fair that he's received so much of the fans' anger.

 

I agree completely with mediocre. Bad? Maybe. But like you said also, the fans would be stupid to expect a 300 BA from Jones. He's given the team exactly what they should have expected out of him and I don't think he can be consided awful because of that.

 

So would you say that Aramis has been awful? Cedeno? Murton? Walker?

 

Cedeno's BA is slightly higher than Jones but his slugging is far below.

 

Murton's BA is slightly higher and a much higher OBP but his SLG is well below. Same goes for Walker.

 

But nobody ever says that these guys have been awful. My point, which you understood, is that other people have been just as bad and worse than Jones.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Whoa. Jones almost got hit in the face by a fan in the RF bleachers:

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap?gid=260516116

 

She probably had a better arm than Jacque.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Somebody had to say it.

[abuck1220]

Jones has been awful? I beg to differ. Where on earth do you get that from? Is there another Jacque Jones that I don't know about? Right now Jones is on pace for 29 HR (a career high) and 83 RBI's (almost a career high - 85). He's currently hitting 264/301/472/773 which are currently 5th/5th/2nd/2nd on the team for players with over 90 AB's. His BA and SLG are up from the previous two years but his OBP is down slightly. Where do you get awful from? Aramis has been awful. Pierre has been awful. Jones has been average.

 

i think we're looking at the same jacque jones, but we certainly differ as to what constitutes awful. a .301 OBP, for example, is awful. i don't care where it ranks among the rest of this sorry team, it's bad. if you want to compare his #'s to others and rank them, how about ranking his OPS among other rf'ers w/ 80+ abs...he'd be 21st. or his OBP...he'd be 24th. so if you're going to say he's average, at least compare him to the rest of the league instead of his terrible teammates.

 

i do agree w/ you that aramis and pierre have been awful.

[snoodmonger]

"I threw a ball to Juan (Pierre) and then turned around to get in my position and the ball came whizzing past my head," Jones said. "It went right past my face. I'm not going to let one person ruin my time here. I signed here for three years and I signed to help this team win."

 

There's pressure here to win and everybody knows it, and I'm not afraid of pressure," Jones said. "If you can't play with pressure, then you don't need to play. I feel like I can play in any type of situation so I'm not going to let this one isolated incident affect the way I play or the way I carry myself. I will not."

 

Kudos to Jacque. He handled that well. And I'm outraged the lady wasn't arrested.

[soccer10k]

Whoa. Jones almost got hit in the face by a fan in the RF bleachers:

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap?gid=260516116

 

And I think we can all agree that this is completely classless.

[BigSlick]

He's currently hitting 264/301/472/773 which are currently 5th/5th/2nd/2nd on the team for players with over 90 AB's.

 

all that proves is that everyone else has been equally or more awful.

 

His BA and SLG are up from the previous two years but his OBP is down slightly. Where do you get awful from? Aramis has been awful. Pierre has been awful. Jones has been average.

 

When relating his current numbers to his own career stats, you have to realize his career--especially the last two years--has been pretty mediocre/bad. So the fact he's improved relative to his own suckiness doesn't mean he isn't bad.

 

That said, I agree that Jones--relative to what we'd hoped he might contribute--hasn't been our biggest problem, and it probably isn't fair that he's received so much of the fans' anger.

 

I think its the fact that Jones does it in such spectacularly horrible fashion. The aforementioned double plays...Diving 10 feet in front of a ball to relinquish a triple to Miguel Cabrera...swinging at pitches waaaaaaay out of the strike zone. He certainly gets creative.

 

BTW, anyway you slice it, .310 OBP is pretty terrible.

[soccer10k]

Jones has been awful? I beg to differ. Where on earth do you get that from? Is there another Jacque Jones that I don't know about? Right now Jones is on pace for 29 HR (a career high) and 83 RBI's (almost a career high - 85). He's currently hitting 264/301/472/773 which are currently 5th/5th/2nd/2nd on the team for players with over 90 AB's. His BA and SLG are up from the previous two years but his OBP is down slightly. Where do you get awful from? Aramis has been awful. Pierre has been awful. Jones has been average.

 

i think we're looking at the same jacque jones, but we certainly differ as to what constitutes awful. a .301 OBP, for example, is awful. i don't care where it ranks among the rest of this sorry team, it's bad. if you want to compare his #'s to others and rank them, how about ranking his OPS among other rf'ers w/ 80+ abs...he'd be 21st. or his OBP...he'd be 24th. so if you're going to say he's average, at least compare him to the rest of the league instead of his terrible teammates.

 

i do agree w/ you that aramis and pierre have been awful.

 

I guess I just want to hear people rip the other players just as much as Jones. It seems like some people don't like Jones as much as other players and they place more blame on him because of it, which isn't fair to Jacque.

[abuck1220]

 

Cedeno's BA is slightly higher than Jones but his slugging is far below.

 

cedeno is 1) in his first full season 2) making 1/10th of the money jones is 3) a middle infielder, while jones is a corner OFer.

 

Murton's BA is slightly higher and a much higher OBP but his SLG is well below.

 

see 1 and 2 from above.

 

Same goes for Walker.

 

see 3 from above.

[abuck1220]

Jones has been awful? I beg to differ. Where on earth do you get that from? Is there another Jacque Jones that I don't know about? Right now Jones is on pace for 29 HR (a career high) and 83 RBI's (almost a career high - 85). He's currently hitting 264/301/472/773 which are currently 5th/5th/2nd/2nd on the team for players with over 90 AB's. His BA and SLG are up from the previous two years but his OBP is down slightly. Where do you get awful from? Aramis has been awful. Pierre has been awful. Jones has been average.

 

i think we're looking at the same jacque jones, but we certainly differ as to what constitutes awful. a .301 OBP, for example, is awful. i don't care where it ranks among the rest of this sorry team, it's bad. if you want to compare his #'s to others and rank them, how about ranking his OPS among other rf'ers w/ 80+ abs...he'd be 21st. or his OBP...he'd be 24th. so if you're going to say he's average, at least compare him to the rest of the league instead of his terrible teammates.

 

i do agree w/ you that aramis and pierre have been awful.

 

I guess I just want to hear people rip the other players just as much as Jones. It seems like some people don't like Jones as much as other players and they place more blame on him because of it, which isn't fair to Jacque.

 

hard to feel sorry for a guy who has been doubled off 2nd base three times in two weeks. sorry.

 

plus, i think everyone has been getting ripped lately. pierre is hurting the cubs worse than jones, and he gets plenty of grief on the board. aramis is given a bit of slack because of what he's done in the past, but i have a feeling that if he continues to suck, that will change.

[soccer10k]

Don't even try to bring money into it. It's not Jacque's fault that Hendry offered him $16 mil over 3 years. Did he deserve that much? Absolutely not. But you can't possibly tell me that if you were offered more money then you deserved that you wouldn't take it. For the last time: THE CONTRACT ISN'T JACQUE'S FAULT!! BLAME HENDRY FOR IT. Stop using his contract as an excuse. Everybody and their mother knows Jacque is overpaid. That horse has already been eaten away by maggots so there's nothing left to beat.

[genbar]

Jones has been awful, but the way some of the fans are acting these days is embarrassing to me as a Cubs fan.

Wholeheartedly agree. They're acting like hooligans out there right now.

can never say that enough.

[CubfaninCA]

guess walker's on the shhhh list now.

[MPrior]

Don't even try to bring money into it. It's not Jacque's fault that Hendry offered him $16 mil over 3 years. Did he deserve that much? Absolutely not. But you can't possibly tell me that if you were offered more money then you deserved that you wouldn't take it. For the last time: THE CONTRACT ISN'T JACQUE'S FAULT!! BLAME HENDRY FOR IT. Stop using his contract as an excuse. Everybody and their mother knows Jacque is overpaid. That horse has already been eaten away by maggots so there's nothing left to beat.

 

Regardless of the money, the point is that Jones is expected (foolishly, I would argue) by the management to produce far more than Cedeno, Murton, and Pierre. And, arguably, Murton has produced just as much as Jones has, given the relative importance of OBP to slugging. Walker has outproduced Jones for the same reason. Admittedly, Aramis is expected to produce the most of the bunch, and his slump is definitely the one that hurts us the most.

[CubfaninCA]

Jones has been awful, but the way some of the fans are acting these days is embarrassing to me as a Cubs fan.

 

Agree. It's just baseball. Only idiots would throw or support throwing objects at ballplayers.

[Peoriaman]

Patterson sucks. I'd take Jones in a heartbeat. Corey has gone 1-12 in his last 3 games.

[CuseCubFan69]

The Yanks need an OF, move Jones to them for some crackerjacks.

[David]

Patterson sucks. I'd take Jones in a heartbeat. Corey has gone 1-12 in his last 3 games.

 

 

So does Jones. Only Patterson is younger, faster, (outside of this, they're almost the same player) and isn't on a 3 year multi-million dollar contract.

[CuseCubFan69]

Patterson sucks. I'd take Jones in a heartbeat. Corey has gone 1-12 in his last 3 games.

 

 

So does Jones. Only Patterson is younger, faster, (outside of this, they're almost the same player) and isn't on a 3 year multi-million dollar contract.

 

I think the best thing that could happen to Corey was being sent out of Chicago.

[Scott G. F.]

I say throw a ball at his head. That should put him right.

 

**Embarred Cubs Fan**

 

But you go ahead and be the type of fan you'd like to be.

[USSoccer]

There's no justification for throwing something at a player, ever.

 

That said, Jones needs to be dealt with by this team. To have him get doubled off like that 3 times in a month is unforgiveable.