ESPN1K says Cubs trying to finish a deal for Pierre

[CubinNY]

It's a lose/lose as far as entering Pie into the equation and Pierre's FA.

 

How will the Cubs accurately judge if Pie is ready to become a ML CF'er next year? He's going to spend the bulk of his year at AAA and if he's a Sept. callup, he wouldn't play over Pierre and his best shot would be a corner spot, depending on who they get for RF.

 

You can't pencil him in for '07 with that little sample size, it's similar to Cedeno, I'd want someone more proven in '06, but if the only other option is Perez, I'd roll the dice with Cedeno.

 

The Cubs would be better off getting someone cheaper and with more than one year left before he hits FA.

 

Let's say Pierre does well next year are the Cubs going to say "Pie is almost ready to become an everyday CF'er, so we can only offer you a 1-2 yr deal"?

 

Pierre improves CF and the leadoff spot, not as much of an improvement as I'd hope from the CF position, but an improvement nonetheless.

 

Couple things

 

1) Most agree that Pie is not ready for the Majors yet.

2) your argument assumes the Cubs are making call ups in Sept to evalute young talent which is ridiculous. (Yes, it is possible they could make the playoffs).

 

Should the Cubs hold off on trying to win just to accomodate players in the minor leagues? Seems like you may be getting a little too carried away with what might happen to young players and not concerned enough about winning now.

 

If Pierre comes to the Cubs he can block Pie for 3 years if he's putting up a .370 OBP and the Cubs win the World Series. Who cares if Pie's development is stunted in that situation?

 

Step away from the Kool-aid.

 

Pierre has had two seasons of .370 OBP and if one wants to factor in all the CS it gets worse. Again, Pierre is not going to be the missing peice that gets the Cubs to the WS.

 

No one is saying the Cubs should not try to win. But as I worte earlier. What is the this organization's philosophy? Hendry was quoted by Gammons and others as saying Pie would be called up last year if he hadn't gotten hurt. So, what up Jim? That is not to say I think Pie is ready for I do not. But appearently someone in the Cubs organization does. Or is it did?

 

Hendry prides himself on giving a good deal. I hope in this case it isn't true.

[UK1679666180]

Couple things

 

1) Most agree that Pie is not ready for the Majors yet.

2) your argument assumes the Cubs are making call ups in Sept to evalute young talent which is ridiculous. (Yes, it is possible they could make the playoffs).

 

Should the Cubs hold off on trying to win just to accomodate players in the minor leagues? Seems like you may be getting a little too carried away with what might happen to young players and not concerned enough about winning now.

 

If Pierre comes to the Cubs he can block Pie for 3 years if he's putting up a .370 OBP and the Cubs win the World Series. Who cares if Pie's development is stunted in that situation?

 

1st off, you're wrong about all of your assumptions.

 

I know Pie isn't ready and he might not be after next year, that was one of my points.

 

The Cubs like most teams should use Sept. to evaluate young talent at the ML level, that has nothing to do with what position they are in as far as the standings. If they are in a close race as they were in '03 and '04 fine, but if they finish like they did say 2 months ago, they should use it to evaluate their prospects. Of course, Cedeno didn't get much out of the last month.

 

Show me a team who is in the playoff race and doesn't expand their roster with various prospects?

 

If Pierre has a .370 OBP next year and leads the Cubs to the WS, you think he's going to sign a 2 year deal and block Pie for 3 years? He won't.

 

1st, if Pierre has a good year next year, the Cubs would still need to improve several positions on the team to become likely to make the playoffs. 2nd, if Pierre has a good year he'll be a prime target for FA and with Pie's potential progression the Cubs would likely not go after him.

 

Pierre is a rental, a rental that will put the Cubs in a vulnerable position for '07 as far as either locking up Pierre long-term or handing it to Pie w/out enough experience to judge if he's ready.

 

Pierre isn't the difference between a team making the playoffs and not making the playoffs, even with Baker as manager.

Edited November 15, 2005 by UK

[CUBZ99]

It's a lose/lose as far as entering Pie into the equation and Pierre's FA.

 

How will the Cubs accurately judge if Pie is ready to become a ML CF'er next year? He's going to spend the bulk of his year at AAA and if he's a Sept. callup, he wouldn't play over Pierre and his best shot would be a corner spot, depending on who they get for RF.

 

You can't pencil him in for '07 with that little sample size, it's similar to Cedeno, I'd want someone more proven in '06, but if the only other option is Perez, I'd roll the dice with Cedeno.

 

The Cubs would be better off getting someone cheaper and with more than one year left before he hits FA.

 

Let's say Pierre does well next year are the Cubs going to say "Pie is almost ready to become an everyday CF'er, so we can only offer you a 1-2 yr deal"?

 

Pierre improves CF and the leadoff spot, not as much of an improvement as I'd hope from the CF position, but an improvement nonetheless.

 

Couple things

 

1) Most agree that Pie is not ready for the Majors yet.

2) your argument assumes the Cubs are making call ups in Sept to evalute young talent which is ridiculous. (Yes, it is possible they could make the playoffs).

 

Should the Cubs hold off on trying to win just to accomodate players in the minor leagues? Seems like you may be getting a little too carried away with what might happen to young players and not concerned enough about winning now.

 

If Pierre comes to the Cubs he can block Pie for 3 years if he's putting up a .370 OBP and the Cubs win the World Series. Who cares if Pie's development is stunted in that situation?

 

Step away from the Kool-aid.

 

Pierre has had two seasons of .370 OBP and if one wants to factor in all the CS it gets worse. Again, Pierre is not going to be the missing peice that gets the Cubs to the WS.

 

No one is saying the Cubs should not try to win. But as I worte earlier. What is the this organization's philosophy? Hendry was quoted by Gammons and others as saying Pie would be called up last year if he hadn't gotten hurt. So, what up Jim? That is not to say I think Pie is ready for I do not. But appearently someone in the Cubs organization does. Or is it did?

 

Hendry prides himself on giving a good deal. I hope in this case it isn't true.

 

Thanks for the reply but you may want to put some time into your reply so that you may actually make a point or better yet make some sense.

[rocket]

Thanks for the reply but you may want to put some time into your reply so that you may actually make a point or better yet make some sense.

 

i didn't find it difficult to comprehend

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

rotoworld.com is also reporting this story (citing ESPN 1000 as well).

 

here's their commentary:

 

"ESPN Radio 1000 is reporting that the Cubs are close to acquiring Juan Pierre from the Marlins for a pair of minor leaguers.

No Corey Patterson? We hope the Cubs wouldn't give up Felix Pie for one year of Pierre. Parting with pitching prospects, say Rich Hill along with Sean Marshall or Renyel Pinto, would be preferable."

[stitchface]

Pierre is a rental, a rental that will put the Cubs in a vulnerable position for '07 as far as either locking up Pierre long-term or handing it to Pie w/out enough experience to judge if he's ready.

 

How would it be different with someone else in center? I think committing to keeping Pie in the minors all of next year is a good thing. Lets not Corey him. I don't understand your argument at all - all it seems to show is that Dusty should be replaced for failing to use his expanded roster to give young players a chance. The Cedeno argument is not a great one though because he got hurt.

[stitchface]

ESPN Radio 1000 is reporting that the Cubs are close to acquiring Juan Pierre from the Marlins for a pair of minor leaguers.

No Corey Patterson? We hope the Cubs wouldn't give up Felix Pie for one year of Pierre. Parting with pitching prospects, say Rich Hill along with Sean Marshall or Renyel Pinto, would be preferable."

 

Goodness, if any of those names are involved, this is a bad deal (except Corey).

[imb]

Bring it on, I dont like Pierre's game too much (except on MVP), but hell, I'll take him on the Cubs, I guess.

[CUBZ99]

Couple things

 

1) Most agree that Pie is not ready for the Majors yet.

2) your argument assumes the Cubs are making call ups in Sept to evalute young talent which is ridiculous. (Yes, it is possible they could make the playoffs).

 

Should the Cubs hold off on trying to win just to accomodate players in the minor leagues? Seems like you may be getting a little too carried away with what might happen to young players and not concerned enough about winning now.

 

If Pierre comes to the Cubs he can block Pie for 3 years if he's putting up a .370 OBP and the Cubs win the World Series. Who cares if Pie's development is stunted in that situation?

 

1st off, you're wrong about all of your assumptions.

 

I know Pie isn't ready and he might not be after next year, that was one of my points.

 

The Cubs like most teams should use Sept. to evaluate young talent at the ML level, that has nothing to do with what position they are in as far as the standings. If they are in a close race as they were in '03 and '04 fine, but if they finish like they did say 2 months ago, they should use it to evaluate their prospects. Of course, Cedeno didn't get much out of the last month.

 

Show me a team who is in the playoff race and doesn't expand their roster with various prospects?

 

If Pierre has a .370 OBP next year and leads the Cubs to the WS, you think he's going to sign a 2 year deal and block Pie for 3 years? He won't.

 

1st, if Pierre has a good year next year, the Cubs would still improve several positions on the team to become likely to make the playoffs. 2nd, if Pierre has a good year he'll be a prime target for FA and with Pie's potential progression the Cubs would likely not go after him.

 

Pierre is a rental, a rental that will put the Cubs in a vulnerable position for '07 as far as either locking up Pierre long-term or handing it to Pie w/out enough experience to judge if he's ready.

 

Pierre isn't the difference between a team making the playoffs and not making the playoffs, even with Baker as manager.

 

Where did my post say anything about not calling Pie up or expanding the roster? Of course, if he is ready to be called up, he could be called up to help. But to make an argument that the Cubs should not get Pierre, because it may stunt Pie's growth is ridiculous.

 

Jim Hendry should be concerned with putting together a winning team in 2006. The Cubs have a hole at the leadoff spot and in CF. Pierre fits both of those holes.

Edited November 15, 2005 by CUBZ99

[CubinNY]

I predict two out of the pool of Mitre, Wellemeyer, Nolasco, Pinto, Marshall, Ryu, and Marmol, if the rumor proves true.

 

I wouldn't assume that Pie and Pierre are one or the other, or that having Pierre would block Pie.

 

As was mentioned, if Pierre were to perform very well for the Cubs, Hendry might be intereted in resigning him and bringing Pie in as a corner outfielder, to give the outfield incredible speed/defense. (If the infield had Furcal, Cedeno, and Lee, the infield could have incredible defense too...).

 

I know we all want a big producer in RF, but it doesn't appear that Hendry is on the same page with that.

 

The notion of getting Pierre, than letting him go and replacing him with Pie is quite possible. Especially if Pierre doesn't play very well! But given Pie's low walk/high K rate, I'm not sure he really profiles well at leadoff, especially as a rookie.

 

If Hendry were to acquire both Pierre and Furcal, then even if Pie replaced Pierre in 07 he wouldn't have to bat leadoff, and might be quite nice hitting 2nd or 7th. (By 07, perhaps either Cedeno or Murton or even Barrett could be well qualified to hit 2nd.)

 

I get the impression that Hendry is way to infatuated with Pierre to necessarily envision him only as a roster-fill rental till Pie.

 

I also really believe he's not committed to pie in center. There was considerable talk this summer about going after Mark Kotsay for CF. Given the expected cost, that would not likely have been for a short rental.

 

So I think Hendry thinks Pie has enough pop to profile as a corner. Whether that happens, or whether that's a waste, I don't know.

 

It's always nice when you chime in craig. Great post. I guess with Pie's speed and percived lack of power *until this year* I figured Pie would be in CF. It does make sense though if Hendry is thinking Pie for a RFer. I would think he would have to show more pop next year. Lee and Aramis cannot be the only run producers in the line up.

[rawaction]

ESPN Radio 1000 is reporting that the Cubs are close to acquiring Juan Pierre from the Marlins for a pair of minor leaguers.

No Corey Patterson? We hope the Cubs wouldn't give up Felix Pie for one year of Pierre. Parting with pitching prospects, say Rich Hill along with Sean Marshall or Renyel Pinto, would be preferable."

 

Goodness, if any of those names are involved, this is a bad deal (except Corey).

 

Probably the top 3 pitchers in the system. Easily the top 3 lefties (save Pawelek, I guess). I wouldn't give up any of the 3, let alone, 2 of them.

[CUBZ99]

Thanks for the reply but you may want to put some time into your reply so that you may actually make a point or better yet make some sense.

 

i didn't find it difficult to comprehend

 

Good for you and thanks for making another post about nothing. You get one gold star. :D

[UK1679666180]

Pierre is a rental, a rental that will put the Cubs in a vulnerable position for '07 as far as either locking up Pierre long-term or handing it to Pie w/out enough experience to judge if he's ready.

 

How would it be different with someone else in center? I think committing to keeping Pie in the minors all of next year is a good thing. Lets not Corey him. I don't understand your argument at all - all it seems to show is that Dusty should be replaced for failing to use his expanded roster to give young players a chance. The Cedeno argument is not a great one though because he got hurt.

 

Offer the same proposal to Philly for Michaels, get a better player, and he's under contract/arby eligible for '07. That puts the Cubs in a position to platoon Pie/Michaels, something that wouldn't happen if they traded for Pierre and did or did not sign him long-term.

 

I agree, Pie should get all of '06 at AAA and become a Sept. callup when the Iowa Cubs are done.

 

As far as Pierre and his upcoming FA and how the impacts Pie. There isn't a scenario where the FA doesn't negatively impacts Pie.

 

If you're getting a stop-gap, do it with someone that can ease Pie into a starting Cf'er rather than having him go straight from AAA to the majors w/out any other decent options.

Edited November 15, 2005 by UK

[stitchface]

It's always nice when you chime in craig. Great post. I guess with Pie's speed and percived lack of power *until this year* I figured Pie would be in CF. It does make sense though if Hendry is thinking Pie for a RFer. I would think he would have to show more pop next year. Lee and Aramis cannot be the only run producers in the line up.

 

Ok, but what does that leave us for RF this year? Another 1 year rental? I think the idea of having options next year makes sense, but why go get Pierre if you aren't planning on winning in 2006? Just let Corey have another go at it if you aren't upgrading RF as well. So, what one year options are there in RF?

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Pierre is a rental, a rental that will put the Cubs in a vulnerable position for '07 as far as either locking up Pierre long-term or handing it to Pie w/out enough experience to judge if he's ready.

 

How would it be different with someone else in center? I think committing to keeping Pie in the minors all of next year is a good thing. Lets not Corey him. I don't understand your argument at all - all it seems to show is that Dusty should be replaced for failing to use his expanded roster to give young players a chance. The Cedeno argument is not a great one though because he got hurt.

 

Offer the same proposal to Philly for Michaels, get a better player, and he's under contract/arby eligible for '07. That puts the Cubs in a position to platoon Pie/Michaels, something that wouldn't happen if they traded for Pierre and did or did not sign him long-term.

 

I agree, Pie should get all of '06 at AAA and become a Sept. callup when the Iowa Cubs are done.

 

As far as Pierre and his upcoming FA and how the impacts Pie. There isn't a scenario where the FA negatively impacts Pie.

 

If you're getting a stop-gap, do it with someone that can ease Pie into a starting Cf'er rather than having him go straight from AAA to the majors w/out any other decent options.

 

You assume the Cubs wouldn't have any other options in place going in to 07 - that's some time from now. I agree with Poudre Moose on this one.

Edited November 15, 2005 by CardsFanInChiTown

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Even if we're renting Pierre for one year, this means Patterson won't be back (the odds were against it anyway).

[gflore34]

As long as it keeps Nefi from leading off I'm for it seriously, though, it wouldn't be unprecedented for Pierre to have a career year prior to FA. Might as well be for the Cubs...

[CubinNY]

It's always nice when you chime in craig. Great post. I guess with Pie's speed and percived lack of power *until this year* I figured Pie would be in CF. It does make sense though if Hendry is thinking Pie for a RFer. I would think he would have to show more pop next year. Lee and Aramis cannot be the only run producers in the line up.

 

Ok, but what does that leave us for RF this year? Another 1 year rental? I think the idea of having options next year makes sense, but why go get Pierre if you aren't planning on winning in 2006? Just let Corey have another go at it if you aren't upgrading RF as well. So, what one year options are there in RF?

 

Don't know. That is why I would go with Lofton for a year CF or as I wrote in another post, give Patterson another shot. Hell, he has to be better than last year.

[stitchface]

If you're getting a stop-gap, do it with someone that can ease Pie into a starting Cf'er rather than having him go straight from AAA to the majors w/out any other decent options.

 

Why? If Pie earns a promotion with performance at AAA, why waste money on a platoon partner that Dusty will overuse (if he is still here). Its not like the Cubs are one player from the world series so why not let Pie go at it if he earned his spot? I can't agree with you at all on this one. A caddy for Pie is worthless if he proves he can play at AAA (in which case he should get a shot late next year anyway). I guess I don't see your point at all except that you like Michaels better than Pierre.

[UK1679666180]

Pierre is a rental, a rental that will put the Cubs in a vulnerable position for '07 as far as either locking up Pierre long-term or handing it to Pie w/out enough experience to judge if he's ready.

 

How would it be different with someone else in center? I think committing to keeping Pie in the minors all of next year is a good thing. Lets not Corey him. I don't understand your argument at all - all it seems to show is that Dusty should be replaced for failing to use his expanded roster to give young players a chance. The Cedeno argument is not a great one though because he got hurt.

 

Offer the same proposal to Philly for Michaels, get a better player, and he's under contract/arby eligible for '07. That puts the Cubs in a position to platoon Pie/Michaels, something that wouldn't happen if they traded for Pierre and did or did not sign him long-term.

 

I agree, Pie should get all of '06 at AAA and become a Sept. callup when the Iowa Cubs are done.

 

As far as Pierre and his upcoming FA and how the impacts Pie. There isn't a scenario where the FA negatively impacts Pie.

 

If you're getting a stop-gap, do it with someone that can ease Pie into a starting Cf'er rather than having him go straight from AAA to the majors w/out any other decent options.

 

You assume the Cubs wouldn't have any other options in place going in to 07 - that's some time from now. I agree with Poudre Moose on this one.

 

The Cubs would have another options, going thru FA for a CF'er or going with Pie on very limited ML experience. Now if they get a CF'er to platoon Pie with fine, but I doubt the odds would be high of that happening.

 

My goal for Pie is for him to have a productive '06 at AAA, platoon for '07, and become the everyday CF'er in '08.

[stitchface]

As long as it keeps Nefi from leading off I'm for it seriously, though, it wouldn't be unprecedented for Pierre to have a career year prior to FA. Might as well be for the Cubs...

 

Pierre

Neifi (to bunt him over)

Lee

Token Lefty in RF

Ramirez

[stitchface]

My goal for Pie is for him to have a productive '06 at AAA, platoon for '07, and become the everyday CF'er in '08.

 

Why waste a year stunting his development in a platoon?

[CardsFanInChiTown]

My goal for Pie is for him to have a productive '06 at AAA, platoon for '07, and become the everyday CF'er in '08.

 

Why waste a year stunting his development in a platoon?

 

Beat me to it.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

My goal for Pie is for him to have a productive '06 at AAA, platoon for '07, and become the everyday CF'er in '08.

 

Why waste a year stunting his development in a platoon?

 

Beat me to it.

 

He'll only be 22 for all of 2007, easing him into his role like that is the way I would do it, as long as the platoon partner is competent. Remember as a lefty he'll get the majority of the AB's in a platoon.

[stitchface]

My goal for Pie is for him to have a productive '06 at AAA, platoon for '07, and become the everyday CF'er in '08.

 

Why waste a year stunting his development in a platoon?

 

Beat me to it.

 

He'll only be 22 for all of 2007, easing him into his role like that is the way I would do it, as long as the platoon partner is competent. Remember as a lefty he'll get the majority of the AB's in a platoon.

 

Like Choi?