Cubs (Imanaga) vs Cardinals (Pallante): 5/29/26, 6:15pm

[Hortonhearsawho]

This one is on Craig. Left Shota in for way too long and then inexplicably keeps using Maton in close games.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

1 minute ago, CUBDOM4life said:

Maton could use a phantom IL stint. Sucks we still owe him next year too

Another one? Make it the 60 day this time

[Papa Cub]

Personally, I’m just facing a reality with this team:

- They have a ton of pitchers out to say the least, and the ones they have aren’t good. Brown has been a pleasant surprise, but aside from him the majority of them either are horsefeathers or average.

- Their hitting is so sporadic that you just have no idea what team you’re getting from game to game. So much inconsistency.

- Brewers have their number and have an overall better upper management and coaching staff. 
 

I see a team that is .500 at best. With The pitching they have no way they win the division or make playoffs. Just my opinion 🤷‍♂️

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

The competition for the third WC is so bad they can probably still sneak in

[Gjfificifjdej]

At this point bringing Maton into winnable games should be a fireable offence for Counsell. Unless the team is up 5+ runs, its pure malpractice to let him on the diamond. Incomprehensibly awful. 

[Gjfificifjdej]

6 minutes ago, Papa Cub said:

Personally, I’m just facing a reality with this team:

- They have a ton of pitchers out to say the least, and the ones they have aren’t good. Brown has been a pleasant surprise, but aside from him the majority of them either are horsefeathers or average.

- Their hitting is so sporadic that you just have no idea what team you’re getting from game to game. So much inconsistency.

- Brewers have their number and have an overall better upper management and coaching staff. 
 

I see a team that is .500 at best. With The pitching they have no way they win the division or make playoffs. Just my opinion 🤷‍♂️

Valid take. Fully healthy starters is probably a comfortable wildcard like last season, which also had streaky hitting, but running a rotation like this is unsurvivable. Nobody as bad as Shota or Taillon this season will ever be in a playoff rotation. 

[Stratos]

We have like 2 good pitchers.  Pathetic.

They're going to have to completely empty the farm to trade for enough pitchers to make this staff not suck.

 

[Geographyhater8888]

Only 22 times they’ve held a team to 3 runs or less and only 14 times in their last 44 games. Maybe they’d tread water a year ago when the offense was scoring at a 5.8 run/game clip from last season but not at 4.8.

Edited 11 hours ago by Geographyhater8888

[Wilson A2000]

I want Shaw to play over Bregman when he’s healthy

Edited 11 hours ago by Wilson A2000

[Dfan25]

I am starting to doubt this team makes the playoffs tbh . The offense isn’t good enough to cover the underwhelming pitching staff .  Craig please stop using Matón in any sort of close game , even when losing . He horsefeathers sucks 

 

The team really needed a full dominating year from Horton and Cabrera to pitch like a front rotation guy . 

[Geographyhater8888]

5 hours ago, Dfan25 said:

I am starting to doubt this team makes the playoffs tbh . The offense isn’t good enough to cover the underwhelming pitching staff .  Craig please stop using Matón in any sort of close game , even when losing . He horsefeathers sucks 

 

The team really needed a full dominating year from Horton and Cabrera to pitch like a front rotation guy . 

That’s just it, they can’t even tread water with the injuries to the pitching staff. How much ground they can afford to lose? We’re also without a 2025 Boyd or 24 Imanaga exceeding projections, Taillon is done, Imanaga is a liability,, Wicks would be in Iowa and Taillon would be DFAd if the rotation was at expected health.

There’s no margin for error with the offense scoring a run/game less at the 58 game mark from last season. 

Edited 6 hours ago by Geographyhater8888

[Rcal10]

11 hours ago, Hortonhearsawho said:

This one is on Craig. Left Shota in for way too long and then inexplicably keeps using Maton in close games.

 

11 hours ago, Gjfificifjdej said:

At this point bringing Maton into winnable games should be a fireable offence for Counsell. Unless the team is up 5+ runs, its pure malpractice to let him on the diamond. Incomprehensibly awful. 

I understand this frustration with Maton, but who did he have to bring in. Counsell doesn’t chase wins. He isn’t using his best guy when losing. Problem is he has one guy, Webb, who can be counted on right now. Thornton and Theilbar through over 20 pitches the game before. He used Roberts already. So who does he have? Rolison? He shouldn’t even be in the team.
Like it or not Maton has to get rjght for this team to go anywhere. As for leaving Shota in too long, again, what options does he have. Use another pen arm? When, exactly should he have been taken out since he left him in “way too long”? 3rd inning? 
I agree that Maton has been horrible. But right now the options are scarce in the pen. They have to use him and he has to get better. Maybe in 2 weeks Rea or Brown (I hope Rea) and they have another option.

[Geographyhater8888]

21 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

 

I understand this frustration with Maton, but who did he have to bring in. Counsell doesn’t chase wins. He isn’t using his best guy when losing. Problem is he has one guy, Webb, who can be counted on right now. Thornton and Theilbar through over 20 pitches the game before. He used Roberts already. So who does he have? Rolison? He shouldn’t even be in the team.
Like it or not Maton has to get rjght for this team to go anywhere. As for leaving Shota in too long, again, what options does he have. Use another pen arm? When, exactly should he have been taken out since he left him in “way too long”? 3rd inning? 
I agree that Maton has been horrible. But right now the options are scarce in the pen. They have to use him and he has to get better. Maybe in 2 weeks Rea or Brown (I hope Rea) and they have another option.

Palencia. He’s rarely been used since his injury with the lack of save opportunities. I understand the bind that Counsell is in and the win probability aspect of being down by a run in the 8th inning, but the rotation is so bad that at some point I’d like him to be more aggressive when There’s a chance to hold a 1 run deficit. Looking ahead to Sunday with Wicks on the mound is assuming the Cubs will actually have a lead in the 9th inning in a tight game. He’s terrible and that’s a bad assumption., 

 

Edited 10 hours ago by Geographyhater8888

[Gjfificifjdej]

35 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

 

I understand this frustration with Maton, but who did he have to bring in. Counsell doesn’t chase wins. He isn’t using his best guy when losing. Problem is he has one guy, Webb, who can be counted on right now. Thornton and Theilbar through over 20 pitches the game before. He used Roberts already. So who does he have? Rolison? He shouldn’t even be in the team.
Like it or not Maton has to get rjght for this team to go anywhere. As for leaving Shota in too long, again, what options does he have. Use another pen arm? When, exactly should he have been taken out since he left him in “way too long”? 3rd inning? 
I agree that Maton has been horrible. But right now the options are scarce in the pen. They have to use him and he has to get better. Maybe in 2 weeks Rea or Brown (I hope Rea) and they have another option.

There must’ve been a guy in the crowd they could have put in. Same result at worst. 

[Rcal10]

1 hour ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

Palencia. He’s rarely been used since his injury with the lack of save opportunities. I understand the bind that Counsell is in and the win probability aspect of being down by a run in the 8th inning, but the rotation is so bad that at some point I’d like him to be more aggressive when There’s a chance to hold a 1 run deficit. Looking ahead to Sunday with Wicks on the mound is assuming the Cubs will actually have a lead in the 9th inning in a tight game. He’s terrible and that’s a bad assumption., 

 

That is absolutely not going to happen. Palencia isn’t coming in a game in the 8th inning with the Cubs down a run. 

[Geographyhater8888]

13 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

That is absolutely not going to happen. Palencia isn’t coming in a game in the 8th inning with the Cubs down a run. 

Correct. Our best reliever is mostly used in low leverage spots during blowouts to prevent rust.

Edited 8 hours ago by Geographyhater8888

[Rcal10]

39 minutes ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

Correct. Our best reliever is mostly used in low leverage spots during blowouts to prevent rust.

Find a team who puts its closer in a game they are losing in the 8th inning. I do admit, I am worried about rust for Palencia when he does come in. But no manager is using a closer in the 8th inning to keep a game close. 

[muntjack]

There was a year ('07?) where Marmol was untouchable, clearly the best reliever on the team, and was used in the highest leverage situations regardless of when they occurred. 

 

I'm sure he wanted the paycheck that comes with saves,  and he was made the closer the following year.

The next time an uber-dominant reliever emerges, I would love to see them pay him like a closer and put him in that role.

[Geographyhater8888]

39 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Find a team who puts its closer in a game they are losing in the 8th inning. 

The Cubs. Palencia came in down 1-0 in the 8th inning Vs Texas. His last appearance was in the 7th inning down 12-1 vs Pittsburgh on Tuesday. So using him to hold a 1 run deficit on 3 days of rest with 1 save opportunity in the last 3 weeks isn’t exactly a bold strategy. 
 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Geographyhater8888

[Rcal10]

47 minutes ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

The Cubs. Palencia came in down 1-0 in the 8th inning Vs Texas. His last appearance was in the 7th inning down 12-1 vs Pittsburgh on Tuesday. So using him to hold a 1 run deficit on 3 days of rest with 1 save opportunity in the last 3 weeks isn’t exactly a bold strategy. 
 

 

How did he do in that inning, btw? Also, what happens if he throws 20+ pitches and then can’t be used in a save situation the. Ext day or two days in a row? Do you think Counsell would get criticized for misusing the pen? I certainly know he would. A manager can’t win in this situation. If a guy comes in and does the job, nothing is said. Only when a guy doesn’t get it done, do others come on and give “better” options. Also, without any knowledge of what they are suggesting would work. 

Edited 7 hours ago by Rcal10

[Geographyhater8888]

1 hour ago, Rcal10 said:

How did he do in that inning, btw? Also, what happens if he throws 20+ pitches and then can’t be used in a save situation the. Ext day or two days in a row? Do you think Counsell would get criticized for misusing the pen? I certainly know he would. A manager can’t win in this situation. If a guy comes in and does the job, nothing is said. Only when a guy doesn’t get it done, do others come on and give “better” options. Also, without any knowledge of what they are suggesting would work. 

He’s thrown 14 pitches in the last 8 days coming into last night. He’d be just fine. Vs the Cardinals middle of the order, it’s my opinion that Palencia is the better option there. It doesn’t mean that the Cubs lost because of that decision, it’s just an alternative to trotting out Maton who’s been bad for your best relief pitcher who’s covered in cob webs from lack of use and meaningful innings.

Edited 6 hours ago by Geographyhater8888

[Rcal10]

2 hours ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

He’s thrown 14 pitches in the last 8 days coming into last night. He’d be just fine. Vs the Cardinals middle of the order, it’s my opinion that Palencia is the better option there. It doesn’t mean that the Cubs lost because of that decision, it’s just an alternative to trotting out Maton who’s been bad for your best relief pitcher who’s covered in cob webs from lack of use and meaningful innings.

I don’t agree with Palencia there, but I know what you are saying. And I respect your opinion. But the fact is, the Cubs are going to need Maton this year. And he didn’t lose the game for them. Even if someone else, Palencia, Webb or Robison came in and didn’t give up a run someone would have had to pitch the 9th inning. IMO his only choices were Maton on Rolison. That being the choices I was fine with Maton.

I suppose thinking out of the box and not caring if you use a guy who you would rather use while winning a game he could have done with Webb or Palencia. But I don’t see that as a conventional play. And had that failed or if one of them not been available in a game they needed him, maybe not you, but others would have been all over him. 
Basically any decision a manager makes, even an obvious one, if it doesn’t work someone will complain about it and suggest Counsell is an idiot who lost the game for them. 

[Gjfificifjdej]

25 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I don’t agree with Palencia there, but I know what you are saying. And I respect your opinion. But the fact is, the Cubs are going to need Maton this year. And he didn’t lose the game for them. Even if someone else, Palencia, Webb or Robison came in and didn’t give up a run someone would have had to pitch the 9th inning. IMO his only choices were Maton on Rolison. That being the choices I was fine with Maton.

I suppose thinking out of the box and not caring if you use a guy who you would rather use while winning a game he could have done with Webb or Palencia. But I don’t see that as a conventional play. And had that failed or if one of them not been available in a game they needed him, maybe not you, but others would have been all over him. 
Basically any decision a manager makes, even an obvious one, if it doesn’t work someone will complain about it and suggest Counsell is an idiot who lost the game for them. 

Im willing to give Counsell a lot of slack given injuries have left him with zero major league starters, but putting Maton into a competitive game over literally any other option is just not acceptable or defensible. 

[squally1313]

1 hour ago, Gjfificifjdej said:

Im willing to give Counsell a lot of slack given injuries have left him with zero major league starters, but putting Maton into a competitive game over literally any other option is just not acceptable or defensible. 

The cubs had a 14% chance to win the game going into the bottom of the 8th. We’ve had stretches where we could bury a pitcher in the bullpen for a couple weeks because our starters are going deep or we had guys who could soak up multiple innings. These are not those times. 
 

there are probably valid criticisms of why we seem to end up with a neris/pressly/maton type reliever every year (yes, I know it’s not apples to apples and I’m oversimplifying). But if you’ve got no one going deep and a bunch of one inning relievers, even your 8th best reliever is going to get run in at least somewhat competitive games. These discussion is probably more ‘is he a top 8 or 10 reliever in the system’. Hes been brutal, do we have better? Genuine question, I don’t know. 

[Rcal10]

14 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

The cubs had a 14% chance to win the game going into the bottom of the 8th. We’ve had stretches where we could bury a pitcher in the bullpen for a couple weeks because our starters are going deep or we had guys who could soak up multiple innings. These are not those times. 
 

there are probably valid criticisms of why we seem to end up with a neris/pressly/maton type reliever every year (yes, I know it’s not apples to apples and I’m oversimplifying). But if you’ve got no one going deep and a bunch of one inning relievers, even your 8th best reliever is going to get run in at least somewhat competitive games. These discussion is probably more ‘is he a top 8 or 10 reliever in the system’. Hes been brutal, do we have better? Genuine question, I don’t know. 

Correct. I don’t know either. But I do know they signed him for 2 years and $24M. This isn’t someone they are going to just cut. As you said, not the same as Neris and Pressly, who only has that one year.

My guess is Wicks goes down when Boyd comes back. When Cabrera comes back I could see Rolison let go. If Bummer looks good in Iowa I think Thornton would be next to go. I doubt Maton isn’t on the team all year. Maybe they IL him. But I doubt they cut him.