Bears Week 14 at 49ers, 3:25 on FOX

[Derwood]

It's hard to believe that Caleb is on pace to get sacked MORE than any season Justin Fields played. How is the line this bad?

[Tryptamine]

Just now, Derwood said:

It's hard to believe that Caleb is on pace to get sacked MORE than any season Justin Fields played. How is the line this bad?

Don't get me wrong the line is, especially at LT, very bad, but at least 2 of those sacks yesterday were 100% on Caleb. So while they definitely suck, Caleb isn't helping the number out.

Edited December 9, 2024 by Tryptamine

[Derwood]

3 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Don't get me wrong the line is, especially at LT, very bad, but at least 2 of those sacks yesterday were 100% on Caleb. So while they definitely suck, Caleb isn't helping the number out.

Certainly true, and I turned the game off after SF went up 21-0, so I didn't see all of them.

Either way, a rookie QB is only going to be so good when he's fighting for his life every play

[Brian707]

They have to let Poles go after the season. I agree with all here, what quality coach is going to want to come here with a GM on thin ice?

 

 

[CubinNY]

5 minutes ago, Brian707 said:

They have to let Poles go after the season. I agree with all here, what quality coach is going to want to come here with a GM on thin ice?

 

 

Then they should have fired him with Flus. Keeping him around if he's on thin ice is dumb. 

[Soul]

28 minutes ago, Derwood said:

Certainly true, and I turned the game off after SF went up 21-0, so I didn't see all of them.

Either way, a rookie QB is only going to be so good when he's fighting for his life every play

Well you didn't miss anything after that.  It was more of the same.  There was nothing at all redeemable about the game.  Also, and I know this is somewhat unfair, but Thomas Brown stood there on the sidelines with a blank expression on his face.  Definitely the "I'm just a position coach not sure why I'm doing this" look.  I think we can dispense with any notion that he is a HC solution.  Shouldn't even be interviewed for the position after the season is over.  I don't care what "coaching tree" he's from.

[gflore34]

1 minute ago, Brian707 said:

They have to let Poles go after the season. I agree with all here, what quality coach is going to want to come here with a GM on thin ice?

 

 

Yes, he needs to be let go, what's ironic is it appears Poles got the hardest part correct - the QB.  Even an average GM will probably be able to come in and improve the OL and Dl, something Poles has struggled to right.

[Tryptamine]

Just now, gflore34 said:

Yes, he needs to be let go, what's ironic is it appears Poles got the hardest part correct - the QB.  Even an average GM will probably be able to come in and improve the OL and Dl, something Poles has struggled to right.

Considering he was the OL whisperer who supposedly didn't even need top picks to find Oline talent. Oops.

[BigSlick]

16 hours ago, Wilson A2000 said:

Ben Johnson is going to find a better opportunity than the Bears, isn’t he? He knows he won’t win anything with this organization and in this division for the foreseeable future. 

I mean every team thats bad and losing usually looks like a mess organizationally. There are a number of franchises I'd say are worse and less appealing than the Bears - The Panthers, The Jets probably, the Browns... and none of the teams that are looking for a new coach have a promising asset as tantalizing as Caleb Williams. So we have that.

On the other hand, even though we're probably in a better spot than the worst of the worst, the ownership is still really bad and who knows whats going on with the GM, who could possibly be fired next year. So that gums things up. 

[BigSlick]

If Poles wanted to fire Eberflus before this season and McCaskey overruled hiim and said he couldn't, I may actually join the meatballs in the belief that its impossible for the Bears to do anything until the McCaskey's sell the team.

As it is though, everything is unconfirmed. I've seen conflicting reports that Poles fought hard for Eberflus in the off-season, that Poles wanted Eberflus gone and was overruled, to etc etc. I have no idea what the true story is. 

[Brian707]

After the season they either fire Poles or extend him. The worse thing they could do is keep his contract as is heading into a new coaching hire. I am sure  Mother and George will go with option 3.

Edited December 9, 2024 by Brian707

[We Got The Whole 9]

1 hour ago, Derwood said:

It's hard to believe that Caleb is on pace to get sacked MORE than any season Justin Fields played. How is the line this bad?

I believe Caleb has been responsible for at least 20 of those.

[CubinNY]

12 minutes ago, BigSlick said:

I mean every team thats bad and losing usually looks like a mess organizationally. There are a number of franchises I'd say are worse and less appealing than the Bears - The Panthers, The Jets probably, the Browns... and none of the teams that are looking for a new coach have a promising asset as tantalizing as Caleb Williams. So we have that.

On the other hand, even though we're probably in a better spot than the worst of the worst, the ownership is still really bad and who knows whats going on with the GM, who could possibly be fired next year. So that gums things up. 

there is no probably about the Jets. I'd say the Jets and Raiders are the worst run franchise. 

[Derwood]

23 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

I believe Caleb has been responsible for at least 20 of those.

Same could be said for Fields

[Sammy Sofa]

40 minutes ago, BigSlick said:

I mean every team thats bad and losing usually looks like a mess organizationally. There are a number of franchises I'd say are worse and less appealing than the Bears - The Panthers, The Jets probably, the Browns...

Three is definitely A number.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Williams is significantly contributing to the sack problem.  He's at least half the issue.

No matter how bad the line gets beat, the QB can move away from the pressure and he can throw the ball before it gets there, and Williams has simply not been good at that. 

He's overcommitted to staying in the pocket, overconfident in his ability to narrowly escape NFL defenders, and I guess you can say his refusal to throw into muddy reads is a good thing but as he gets more experience there need to be a lot less reads that look muddy to him.

[Derwood]

Receivers rarely being open does not help. Mahomes is so good at avoiding sacks because when he scrambles, he always has 1 or 2 receivers inexplicably wide open for him to dump to. Bears receivers can't get open even when the pocket protection is good

[We Got The Whole 9]

I'm fully on the Poles has to go train. He had 2 offseasons to really build a robust line and depended almost solely on the draft and totally said horsefeathers a Center. His best FA signings were Edwards and Billings (who I guess is the glue that held them together. He also drafted a total project with Kiran and took a Punter instead of grabbing more line help. He really offset the gains he made with the Carolina trade. 

 

Sweat trade was offset by doing nothing on the other EDGE as well.

 

He's basically said, I know how to draft, leave me alone, and authored the most complete tear-down/rebuild we have seen, and now he is seeing what happens when 80% of your picks suck ass.

[UMFan83]

Quite a roller coaster for Caleb per PFF grading this year.  Looks like yesterday was his 3rd worst graded game of the season, worst since Week 2.

[jersey cubs fan]

All you bandwagoners just waking up to Poles’ failing now is weak. I was on this guy after his first offseason. He blew it. 
 

you can’t tear down a roster and refuse to add when you have cap space then suddenly assume you can fix it. 
 

mow you are kind of stuck with him. 

[Hairyducked Idiot]

6 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

All you bandwagoners just waking up to Poles’ failing now is weak. I was on this guy after his first offseason. He blew it. 
 

you can’t tear down a roster and refuse to add when you have cap space then suddenly assume you can fix it. 
 

mow you are kind of stuck with him. 

I've always hated his positional priorities.

We're just now getting to the point where we can judge his drafting.

Out of his first draft, we got an OK nickel corner, an OK run-focused safety and an extremely mediocre LT (yes, I know PFF loves him, that's a PFF problem).

His second draft netted us an ok RT and an OK DT. That's it.

[raw]

It all netted a franchise QB, though.  You can hate individual moves and general direction, but the 2022 teardown led to the 2023 trade that brought the Bears the 2024 franchise QB. 

I just don't know what getting rid of Poles does for this franchise. You get rid of the OC to give Caleb a better chance. You get rid of the HC to give Caleb a better chance. You get rid of the GM.....and you are in a situation where you have a GM tied to a guy he didn't draft. So if he tries to rebuild this team HIS way and Caleb doesn't shine through all of it, then you have a GM saying "well, this isn't MY quarterback and once we get my guy, we'll be well on our way".  Isn't that the situation you were just in with Poles? Isn't that the situation you were in with Pace inheriting Cutler?

You gotta let this thing play out with Poles. And one of my stubborn points is that I don't think you can hold Flus against him. All signs point to:

A) Flus wasn't 100% his hire. Remember the HC and GM searches were happening at the same time. They interviewed liked 9 coaches, 3 got 2nd interviews (Quinn, Caldwell, Flus) and 1 just happened to have the same agent as Poles and was hired on Poles' SECOND day on the job. Clearly not a full hiring process from Poles himself.

B) The rumors that Poles wanted Flus fired last offseason and couldn't. Half of the Bears fanbase wanted to trade the pick again and build around Fields. While that was the obvious anti-choice to most of us here, that would have been the easy choice for Poles. I see little reason to believe the guy who only had eyes for Caleb in this draft back in November, wanted to pair him with a defensive guy.

This is not to absolve Poles of all. The record is the record. The deficiencies on this team have been the same since he took over, except for WR, and hopefully QB. But I fully believe he now knows he can't half-ass the trenches and will do what it takes, after all, his career is tied to Caleb Williams. I believe he will do everything he can for him to succeed. 

[gflore34]

I, to, want Poles removed however, given the reasoning above, that's more of hot-take on my part.  Poles has the hard part done, finding a QB, fixing the trenches shouldn't be impossible.  It can be done in an off season, other average to below-average GM's have managed such a task.  So, it's certainly possible that Poles could accomplish the same.  It's all there for the Bears, extend Poles, do whatever it takes to convince Ben Johnson, Poles takes care of the offensive and defensive lines, playoffs then become a real possibility.

[jersey cubs fan]

2 hours ago, raw said:

It all netted a franchise QB, though.  You can hate individual moves and general direction, but the 2022 teardown led to the 2023 trade that brought the Bears the 2024 franchise QB. 

I just don't know what getting rid of Poles does for this franchise. You get rid of the OC to give Caleb a better chance. You get rid of the HC to give Caleb a better chance. You get rid of the GM.....and you are in a situation where you have a GM tied to a guy he didn't draft. So if he tries to rebuild this team HIS way and Caleb doesn't shine through all of it, then you have a GM saying "well, this isn't MY quarterback and once we get my guy, we'll be well on our way".  Isn't that the situation you were just in with Poles? Isn't that the situation you were in with Pace inheriting Cutler?

You gotta let this thing play out with Poles. And one of my stubborn points is that I don't think you can hold Flus against him. All signs point to:

A) Flus wasn't 100% his hire. Remember the HC and GM searches were happening at the same time. They interviewed liked 9 coaches, 3 got 2nd interviews (Quinn, Caldwell, Flus) and 1 just happened to have the same agent as Poles and was hired on Poles' SECOND day on the job. Clearly not a full hiring process from Poles himself.

B) The rumors that Poles wanted Flus fired last offseason and couldn't. Half of the Bears fanbase wanted to trade the pick again and build around Fields. While that was the obvious anti-choice to most of us here, that would have been the easy choice for Poles. I see little reason to believe the guy who only had eyes for Caleb in this draft back in November, wanted to pair him with a defensive guy.

This is not to absolve Poles of all. The record is the record. The deficiencies on this team have been the same since he took over, except for WR, and hopefully QB. But I fully believe he now knows he can't half-ass the trenches and will do what it takes, after all, his career is tied to Caleb Williams. I believe he will do everything he can for him to succeed. 

I don’t disagree, thus my “you are kind of stuck with him” comment above. 
 

A franchise reset at this point won’t help. Poles is going to waste Caleb’s rookie contract because he’s incapable of building a winning roster. 
 

The one option you really have to circumvent that problem is get rid of Poles and elevate Ian Cunningham. But he very well might not take that job under those circumstances. 

[gflore34]

35 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

I don’t disagree, thus my “you are kind of stuck with him” comment above. 
 

A franchise reset at this point won’t help. Poles is going to waste Caleb’s rookie contract because he’s incapable of building a winning roster. 
 

The one option you really have to circumvent that problem is get rid of Poles and elevate Ian Cunningham. But he very well might not take that job under those circumstances. 

It's not rocket surgery - 1. Improve run and pass blocking 2. Add a downhill power RB 3. Add a DE who can get to the QB - I believe even Poles is capable of figuring this out.