Spring Training Chit Chats

[Rcal10]

So can we get back to baseball. I read the only team showing interest in Bellinger is the Cubs. (Nightingale- so take it for what it is worth). If that is the case I understand why the Cubs are holding at whatever they discussed, or waiting for Boras to come down. But this could still shape up to be a decent off season if they do get Bellinger and more importantly Morel can play 3rd. Bellinger helps if Busch struggles. Either PCA can come up or Tauchman can play center. DH is depending on who they decided was the best option that day. (This is where you might see some Smith or Peralta AB) But even better is if Busch plays well and PCA plays well enough to have to be put on the mlb roster. DH can mix between Bellinger, Busch, Happ and Suzuki while everyone stays in the line up. (This would be when Peralta and/or Smith -whichever makes the team- is released) When a rough lefty goes they can put Madrigal at 3rd, DH Morel and get AB for wisdom. Sit a few lefties. To me the key to this team in 24’ (assuming they get Bellinger) is Morel handling 3rd. And I know that is far from a sure thing. But if he does it gives them the chance to have a very solid line up.

Edited February 21, 2024 by Rcal10

[CubinNY]

2 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

So can we get back to baseball. I read the only team showing interest in Bellinger is the Cubs. (Nightingale- so take it for what it is worth). If that is the case I understand why the Cubs are holding at whatever they discussed, or waiting for Boras to come down. But this could still shape up to be a decent off season if they do get Bellinger and more importantly Morel can play 3rd. Bellinger helps if Busch struggles. Either PCA can come up or Tauchman can play center. DH is depending on who they decided was the best option that day. (This is where you might see some Smith or Peralta AB) But even better is if Busch plays well and PCA plays well enough to have to be put on the mlb roster. DH can mix between Bellinger, Busch, Happ and Suzuki while everyone stays in the line up. (This would be when Peralta and/or Smith -whichever makes the team- is released) When a rough lefty goes they can put Madrigal at 3rd, DH Morel and get AB for wisdom. Sit a few lefties. To me the key to this team in 24’ (assuming they get Bellinger) is Morel handling 3rd. And I know that is far from a sure thing. But if he does it gives them the chance to have a very solid line up.

I know they are asking for a huge contract, but it almost does not make sense that no other team is interested in Bellinger. I suppose maybe the Cubs are the only team interested in getting near the demands or something. But it seems like a lot of teams would be interested in a shorter contract. 

 

[Rcal10]

3 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

I know they are asking for a huge contract, but it almost does not make sense that no other team is interested in Bellinger. I suppose maybe the Cubs are the only team interested in getting near the demands or something. But it seems like a lot of teams would be interested in a shorter contract. 

 

Like I said, Nightengale is the one reporting it. So who knows. He does make sense for the Cubs, however. More so if Morel can play 3rd. If/when PCA does come up, Bellinger is no longer a centerfielder. But for me, anyway, there is still a lot of value in him being able to play both corners and first. 

[Michael Busch Light]

10 hours ago, Derwood said:

*says a bunch of stupid shiit*

*gets called out for it*

"WELL I GUESS I'M NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE OPINIONS AROUND HERE!!!"

*derp*

He totally bought the Trump shoes 

[Michael Busch Light]

18 hours ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

I'm guilty of this but we are too sympathetic to Jed. He is given a budget approx 20-25% higher than any other team in the division and hasn't won a proper division title in 5 years. He's mostly done well in the last few drafts and trades but he's chosen to barely fish in the deep waters and it's certainly cost them a lot of elite talent.

No.  Jed is very risk averse.  If he doesn’t win the division this year he needs to go.   

[Rcal10]

11 minutes ago, Michael Busch Light said:

No.  Jed is very risk averse.  If he doesn’t win the division this year he needs to go.   

I doubt that happens. I think TR is very happy with the way Jed runs the team. But even if he did go, Hawkins would replace him. He seems to be the same guy. TR is not ever going to put a guy like Theo back in. Or, I should say a guy like Theo would never take this job again. 

[CubinNY]

1 minute ago, Rcal10 said:

I doubt that happens. I think TR is very happy with the way Jed runs the team. But even if he did go, Hawkins would replace him. He seems to be the same guy. TR is not ever going to put a guy like Theo back in. Or, I should say a guy like Theo would never take this job again. 

Moving forward, the Ricketts way of doing business is going to be the predominant model if it isn't already. The Red Sox are taking the same approach. 

Truth be told, it's not a bad model if you have the right people in place to make it work. What could be better than a winning team that makes a ton of money for ownership? 

I don't know that Jed is the right guy, but if the consensus about the farm is accurate, he may be. I don't know that the Ricketts are smart enough to know though. I don't think they much care about winning as long as the money is flowing. I suppose if they go another year or two hovering around .500 he may get some heat, but I doubt it. 

[sneakypower]

8 hours ago, Irrelevant Dude said:

North Shore Adult Diapers, here's your chance to take your marketing campaign to the next level.

 

[Rcal10]

10 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

Moving forward, the Ricketts way of doing business is going to be the predominant model if it isn't already. The Red Sox are taking the same approach. 

Truth be told, it's not a bad model if you have the right people in place to make it work. What could be better than a winning team that makes a ton of money for ownership? 

I don't know that Jed is the right guy, but if the consensus about the farm is accurate, he may be. I don't know that the Ricketts are smart enough to know though. I don't think they much care about winning as long as the money is flowing. I suppose if they go another year or two hovering around .500 he may get some heat, but I doubt it. 

I agree. I think Jed gets a little longer leash because of the farm system. And he is doing it TR’s way. I know Dipoto took a lot of grief for suggesting a winning percentage of .540 over a 10 year span was his goal. But really I think that is exactly what the Cubs are trying to do. Be good enough to compete every year and some years actually win 90+. The more times you get in the playoffs the better your odds of actually winning the WS in one of those years. 

[Brian707]

1 hour ago, Rcal10 said:

. The more times you get in the playoffs the better your odds of actually winning the WS in one of those years. 

With the new playoff format and I know its a small sample size, you just need to get in and get enough spins at the roulette wheel. I guess they look at a team like Arizona last year or Philly in 2022.

[Rcal10]

3 minutes ago, Brian707 said:

With the new playoff format and I know its a small sample size, you just need to get in and get enough spins at the roulette wheel. I guess they look at a team like Arizona last year or Philly in 2022.

Yep, not exactly building a dynasty, or building a super team, but that is baseball now. 

[PackLandVA]

33 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Yep, not exactly building a dynasty, or building a super team, but that is baseball now. 

Only being good enough to NOT miss the playoffs is the expectation for a lot of teams.  

[LBiittner]

Jed is keen on participation trophies.

[BigbadB]

7 minutes ago, PackLandVA said:

Only being good enough to NOT miss the playoffs is the expectation for a lot of teams.  

This is probably going to continue to be the model when you have teams doing what the Dodgers are doing now. There are 30 teams and only one can win the World Series each year, and no matter how much you do to improve your team, it still won't be as much as what the Dodgers do. Hell, the Mets and Padres just went out there and tried to buy a World Series over the last handful of years and didn't do squat. 

Spending money doesn't guarantee you anything. 

[Stratos]

2 hours ago, CubinNY said:

Moving forward, the Ricketts way of doing business is going to be the predominant model if it isn't already. The Red Sox are taking the same approach. 

Truth be told, it's not a bad model if you have the right people in place to make it work. What could be better than a winning team that makes a ton of money for ownership? 

I don't know that Jed is the right guy, but if the consensus about the farm is accurate, he may be. I don't know that the Ricketts are smart enough to know though. I don't think they much care about winning as long as the money is flowing. I suppose if they go another year or two hovering around .500 he may get some heat, but I doubt it. 

I think the goal with the new playoff format with the 12 teams is to be good enough to get into the playoffs every year.   The Dodgers win 100 games and get bounced and the Dbacks win 84 and make the WS.  They don't see the business value of spending to win the extra 10+ games if the playoffs are so random and the Dodgers only have 1 WS the last decade.

As a business I understand what the Cubs want to do, it just isn't very fun as a fan.  I think the league needs to figure out how to incentivize winning again and make the playoffs less random.

[Jason Ross]

11 minutes ago, Stratos said:

I think the goal with the new playoff format with the 12 teams is to be good enough to get into the playoffs every year.   The Dodgers win 100 games and get bounced and the Dbacks win 84 and make the WS.  They don't see the business value of spending to win the extra 10+ games if the playoffs are so random and the Dodgers only have 1 WS the last decade.

As a business I understand what the Cubs want to do, it just isn't very fun as a fan.  I think the league needs to figure out how to incentivize winning again and make the playoffs less random.

The cat is kind of out of the bag already, on the last front. The more teams you add to the playoffs, the more you create randomness. Arizona doesn't get a chance to win the World Series if there isn't further expansion to the playoffs. They can create artificial ways to decrease randomness a bit, like "ghost-wins" where a team starts up a series 1-0 like has been suggested, but even then, randomness will continue to prevail in many cases. 

The league has put profit above sport. And we can debate how much that should or shouldn't be the case if we want, but that's not really my goal here; mainly just to suggest that I don't think there's a solution here. The owners (and rulers) of the league won't be able to put the toothpaste of profit back in the tube and give up revenue streams (more playoff games) and because of that, this is the world we will live in.

[Bertz]

1 hour ago, Stratos said:

I think the goal with the new playoff format with the 12 teams is to be good enough to get into the playoffs every year.   The Dodgers win 100 games and get bounced and the Dbacks win 84 and make the WS.  They don't see the business value of spending to win the extra 10+ games if the playoffs are so random and the Dodgers only have 1 WS the last decade.

As a business I understand what the Cubs want to do, it just isn't very fun as a fan.  I think the league needs to figure out how to incentivize winning again and make the playoffs less random.

I would push back on this a bit.  Despite all the whining about rust there's major major value in getting the bye, and we have seen teams operate accordingly (e.g. the Braves continuing to pile on this winter).  There's not much value in a team like the Cubs going from the 5 seed to the three seed, but there is more value at the top end of the league and of course the middle class of the league that wants to grab that 5/6 seed.

[Stratos]

5 hours ago, Bertz said:

I would push back on this a bit.  Despite all the whining about rust there's major major value in getting the bye, and we have seen teams operate accordingly (e.g. the Braves continuing to pile on this winter).  There's not much value in a team like the Cubs going from the 5 seed to the three seed, but there is more value at the top end of the league and of course the middle class of the league that wants to grab that 5/6 seed.

There's value in the bye i agree, but then the division series is best out of 5.  I have always thought they should have the division series as best out of 7, and maybe make the wild card series best out of 5.  Playing 162 and then getting bounced after 3 losses is ridiculous.  The hot teams will still play better than the teams with the best roster and most season wins, but that will never change.

[Post Count Padder]

I know they hired Boras because they wanted to get PAID, but I wonder if the "Big 4" are starting to regret it or are overly frustrated with negotiations now that Spring Training has started. I can see them being annoyed to not be in camp already and getting acclimated. Even if, say, Bellinger signs somewhere else next week, he'll be a little behind schedule.

[Bertz]

36 minutes ago, Post Count Padder said:

I know they hired Boras because they wanted to get PAID, but I wonder if the "Big 4" are starting to regret it or are overly frustrated with negotiations now that Spring Training has started. I can see them being annoyed to not be in camp already and getting acclimated. Even if, say, Bellinger signs somewhere else next week, he'll be a little behind schedule.

Yeah I think, especially since one of the logical ways to bridge a big gap is to go the short term deal with opt outs path, they're playing a real dangerous game.  I think, Bryce Harper aside, just about all the guys who have signed super late have struggled that season. 

And then spring training is too long, but not for starting pitcher.  The hitters can hold off for the first week of March, but if I'm the pitchers I want to be in camp by next week to make sure I don't torch my 2024. 

I think, especially with how all of these guys' markets are interconnected, at least one of them ends up pretty boned.  I'd be shocked if JDM isn't already boned.  Like it's going to make a major injury or two to bail Boras out here.

[Rob]

1 hour ago, Post Count Padder said:

I know they hired Boras because they wanted to get PAID, but I wonder if the "Big 4" are starting to regret it or are overly frustrated with negotiations now that Spring Training has started. I can see them being annoyed to not be in camp already and getting acclimated. Even if, say, Bellinger signs somewhere else next week, he'll be a little behind schedule.

Maybe. But Boras isn't new to this. He almost certainly told them from the beginning that this will likely drag into spring training. Their expectations have likely been set appropriately.

[s2obed]

1 hour ago, Post Count Padder said:

I know they hired Boras because they wanted to get PAID, but I wonder if the "Big 4" are starting to regret it or are overly frustrated with negotiations now that Spring Training has started. I can see them being annoyed to not be in camp already and getting acclimated. Even if, say, Bellinger signs somewhere else next week, he'll be a little behind schedule.

It’s not like the Boras 4 are just sitting at home. I’m guessing these guys are working out everyday, doing BP, have a pitching schedule of their own, etc. 

[Rob]

1 minute ago, s2obed said:

It’s not like the Boras 4 are just sitting at home. I’m guessing these guys are working out everyday, doing BP, have a pitching schedule of their own, etc. 

A few years back, I seem to recall a story about Boras clients having their own camp for that stuff.

[Irrelevant Dude]

20 minutes ago, Rob said:

A few years back, I seem to recall a story about Boras clients having their own camp for that stuff.

Maybe they should go on a barnstorming tour and just forget about the season entirely.

[Rcal10]

22 minutes ago, Rob said:

A few years back, I seem to recall a story about Boras clients having their own camp for that stuff.

That was the year Arrieta signed with the Phillies. That didn’t work out too well for them Phillies.