Bagent exposure in primetime, Bears are 10 point dogs to Chargers

[jersey cubs fan]

9.5 points in some places, but Vegas expects Mack to make Bagent’s second act difficult. 
The Chargers have lost three games to good teams and a 4th to a weak Titans team. They aren’t barn burners, but they don’t suck. 

as always I expect a competent veteran QB to take care of business against this defense. 
 

the Bears in primetime or national games typically either results in a shocking win against a terrible team in disguise as not that bad, until they lose to the Bears (Commanders/Patriots) or an ugly pathetic loss (packers, Chiefs, Commanders last year).

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Yesterday was a perfect case study for showing how Fields was dragging everyone else down.  The offensive line stopped bleeding sacks, a variety of WRs got targets, plays were being adjusted and checked at the line appropriately.

I keep coming back to this video and the play at 8:07

Where fields lets a pitch go to a rb into two unblocked run blitzers instead of either checking at the line or pulling and running the alternate execution baked into play.  

How many times did that happen yesterday?  Few if not zero.  Bagent consistently put the rest of the offense in a position of succeed.

Now, all that said, Bagent only had to make one throw over 15 yards and had to be subbed out for the hail mary. That's not sustainable.  Getting the lead and nursing it home was a dream scenario for him because he was never forced to risk any more 20-yard air punts.

 

Defense continues to look kinda ok since the Denver game.

This team has the potential to really screw up their draft position.  I don't think we beat many good teams, but there's plenty of bad teams left on the schedule.

 

 

 

[Derwood]

There's a good chance that Justin Fields is just bad

[raw]

I feel like everyone has chalked this up as a loss on paper since the schedule came out. But I just simply can't assume anything with the Chargers ever. They SHOULD win this game, but they should have won a playoff game where they had a 30 point lead at halftime or whatever. 

The Chargers are NOT that good. The Bears are clearly worse, though. I feel like a 2nd Bagent start will be not as successful. In theory, him getting rid of the ball quickly should help against a good pass rush. But I feel like if Fields plays, he can take advantage of a really bad pass defense.....assuming he pulls the trigger, when he's not running for his life. And that pass D is bad down the field. 8.8 yards per attempt, 9.01 air yards per attempt, 12.8 per completion and a 105.6 QB rating against. All but that rating against are the worst in the league. The Chargers have been a Broncos level pass defense this year. To be fair though, they have played 1/2 their games vs KC, Miami and Minnesota w/ a healthy Jefferson.

[UMFan83]

33 minutes ago, raw said:

I feel like everyone has chalked this up as a loss on paper since the schedule came out. But I just simply can't assume anything with the Chargers ever. They SHOULD win this game, but they should have won a playoff game where they had a 30 point lead at halftime or whatever. 

The Chargers are NOT that good. The Bears are clearly worse, though. I feel like a 2nd Bagent start will be not as successful. In theory, him getting rid of the ball quickly should help against a good pass rush. But I feel like if Fields plays, he can take advantage of a really bad pass defense.....assuming he pulls the trigger, when he's not running for his life. And that pass D is bad down the field. 8.8 yards per attempt, 9.01 air yards per attempt, 12.8 per completion and a 105.6 QB rating against. All but that rating against are the worst in the league. The Chargers have been a Broncos level pass defense this year. To be fair though, they have played 1/2 their games vs KC, Miami and Minnesota w/ a healthy Jefferson.

Have they said anything about Fields status?  I just assumed he's out for at least 2 more weeks.  If he plays if could be a disaster if he's having trouble gripping the football.

Assuming Bagent plays it will be interesting to see how the game plans for both teams are.  Getsy probably cant expect to have the same game plan as yesterday and be successful now that teams have some tape on it.  He's going to have to have Bagent throw more downfield, even if just mixed in with the dinks and dunks.

[raw]

19 minutes ago, UMFan83 said:

Have they said anything about Fields status?  I just assumed he's out for at least 2 more weeks.  If he plays if could be a disaster if he's having trouble gripping the football.

Assuming Bagent plays it will be interesting to see how the game plans for both teams are.  Getsy probably cant expect to have the same game plan as yesterday and be successful now that teams have some tape on it.  He's going to have to have Bagent throw more downfield, even if just mixed in with the dinks and dunks.

Eberflus said today, no change. So, he's doubtful and probably not going to play. I'm sure he'll try to suit up toward the end of the week. Grip is coming back, but the concern is the zip on his passes with that thumb.

[Brian707]

Bears can cover 9 points. Chargers 24, Bears 16

[CubinNY]

"Hi, Rocky from Joliet here, first time, long time. dis Bagnet kid looks like a diamond in the ruff. He's no bum off the bench. He should be starting no questions asked when Fields comes back."

[raw]

Bagent is exactly what you want. He's Gardner Minshew. He's a guy you want in a pinch that is the cliche "plays within himself" QB that gets rid of the ball. I love that he's got a completely different game than Fields, but he isn't a complete talentless hack like Peterman or Chase Daniel. I think it makes it harder for teams to adjust on the fly like this with 6 days of preparation. But with the extra tape on him, I'd imagine it'll be much tougher for him this weekend. If it's not....then Rocky may be onto something.

[CubinNY]

I think things come back down to earth after this game and the fans turn their attention to "Who's the guy in college" conversations. 

[We Got The Whole 9]

4 hours ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

Yesterday was a perfect case study for showing how Fields was dragging everyone else down.  The offensive line stopped bleeding sacks, a variety of WRs got targets, plays were being adjusted and checked at the line appropriately.

I keep coming back to this video and the play at 8:07

Where fields lets a pitch go to a rb into two unblocked run blitzers instead of either checking at the line or pulling and running the alternate execution baked into play.  

How many times did that happen yesterday?  Few if not zero.  Bagent consistently put the rest of the offense in a position of succeed.

Now, all that said, Bagent only had to make one throw over 15 yards and had to be subbed out for the hail mary. That's not sustainable.  Getting the lead and nursing it home was a dream scenario for him because he was never forced to risk any more 20-yard air punts.

 

Defense continues to look kinda ok since the Denver game.

This team has the potential to really screw up their draft position.  I don't think we beat many good teams, but there's plenty of bad teams left on the schedule.

 

 

 

Justin's lack of pre-snap anything has actually been a criticism I held in my back pocket simply because we've only had like 2 QBs who could orchestrate an offense like that in the last 20 years and I'm just so used to not seeing it. 

 

The things that Fields doesn't do are really apalling. 

[Outshined_One]

11 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

"Hi, Rocky from Joliet here, first time, long time. dis Bagnet kid looks like a diamond in the ruff. He's no bum off the bench. He should be starting no questions asked when Fields comes back."

Pretty much spot on, but it needs (1) how old Rocky was when the Bears won in '86, (2) dog whistles regarding Fields' and Bagent's work habits and motivations, and (3) a completely unrealistic and off the wall trade proposal ("Can we trade Fields fer dat Atlanta tight end?") to make it 100% accurate.

I also would accept "Bob from Elmwood Park" or "Fred in Antioch" as acceptable caller names.

[The_Achiever]

4 hours ago, Derwood said:

There's a good chance that Justin Fields is just bad

It sucks that I'm starting to feel this way; when at the same time Caleb Williams and Drake Maye aren't really doing themselves any favors either.  

It's really not good.  

[gflore34]

Not expecting a win, just would like the Bears to not, as they've so often done on Sunday night games, completely crap the bed.  It's probably asking too much.

[gflore34]

48 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

Justin's lack of pre-snap anything has actually been a criticism I held in my back pocket simply because we've only had like 2 QBs who could orchestrate an offense like that in the last 20 years and I'm just so used to not seeing it. 

 

The things that Fields doesn't do are really apalling. 

I don't get it either, are things like these harder to see on the line?  Because, to most anyone it's very clear there's two un-blocked defenders and it's probably not a good idea to go with the running play right at them.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Getting an early lead and milking clock is the dream scenario for Bagent.  Having to come from behind or play in any sort of shootout will be much tougher. 

[raw]

2 hours ago, The_Achiever said:

It sucks that I'm starting to feel this way; when at the same time Caleb Williams and Drake Maye aren't really doing themselves any favors either.  

It's really not good.  

You're like the 2nd or 3rd person to say this.  What are they doing/not doing that you want to see? 

I feel like ya'll are expecting perfect prospects, which don't exist. Or at least expecting some sign from above that this prospect can't miss or something.

 

[minnesotacubsfan]

18 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

Getting an early lead and milking clock is the dream scenario for Bagent.  Having to come from behind or play in any sort of shootout will be much tougher. 

a shootout w/Bagent would be telling, to say the least. its what I would prefer

Edited October 23, 2023 by minnesotacubsfan

[Tryptamine]

9 minutes ago, raw said:

You're like the 2nd or 3rd person to say this.  What are they doing/not doing that you want to see? 

I feel like ya'll are expecting perfect prospects, which don't exist. Or at least expecting some sign from above that this prospect can't miss or something.

 

It's the hype that surrounds them. Last year I kept hearing people say pass on Stroud and Young, Williams and Maye would both have gone ahead of them. Now there are people putting Williams in the Andrew Luck tier of prospect.   I don't see Williams/Maye as much, if any, different than Young/Stroud. They look like the usual #1 and #2 QB in your average draft.

[UMFan83]

Definitely in favor of this

[We Got The Whole 9]

Yeah letting Jaylon walk would be beyond idiotic. Spotrac projects a modest contract anyway. Get it done.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

This looks a lot better than I expected.  I'm sorry, but I don't hate it. I really don't hate it. 

Obviously, you can't be a franchise QB if you can't throw more than 16 yards past the LOS, which he literally did not do all game.  And which he utterly failed at twice in the Vikings game.  And apparently it's so bad they have to bring in Captain Clipboard to throw his hail marys.  This sort of performance *only* works when your defense is having a good game and you're nursing a lead, which won't always be the case.

But if you just look at the throws he actually made on Sunday, I don't see a weak arm. He's got plenty of zip, he's not letting defenders close by throwing muffins.  

If you told me this was a former second-round pick with two years in the league, I'd believe it.  The execution on quick throws is immaculate, the ball placement is *really* good, the ability to work through his progressions is solid (he did turn down a couple of deeper throws that I think could have been made, but nobody's perfect).  Pause the video at 5:55 to see him already in his throwing motion while the receiver still has his back to him, the kind of anticipation throw we've been begging for.

He's completely unafraid to throw balls to a receiver's leverage even if the defender is right on their back, the elusive "NFL open."  Honestly I wouldn't hate it if he dialed that back a bit, there was one or two that he got in there but seemed awfully risky.

And he was completely fearless about calling checks and modifying plays at the line, and he was usually right when he did it.  

Edited October 24, 2023 by Hairyducked Idiot

[Hairyducked Idiot]

2 hours ago, Tryptamine said:

It's the hype that surrounds them. Last year I kept hearing people say pass on Stroud and Young, Williams and Maye would both have gone ahead of them. Now there are people putting Williams in the Andrew Luck tier of prospect.   I don't see Williams/Maye as much, if any, different than Young/Stroud. They look like the usual #1 and #2 QB in your average draft.

People are burnt out from Trubisky/Fields.  It's frustrating and scary to be going through this process *yet again* and knowing that the bust rate at the position is high.  It would be amazing to have an Elway/Manning/Luck level prospect, but we don't, so we're scouting scared as a fanbase.

In the last 15 years,, the QBs taken 1 overall were Stafford, Bradford, Newton, Luck, Bortles, Winston, Goff, Mayfield, Murray, Burrow, Lawrence, Young.

That's a *good* list on average, but it's not a list that makes you think "OK it's definitely our turn to have a Mahomes/Brady/Manning/Rodgers/Brees type."

[jumbo]

Bortles was #3, I think, but I completely understand and agree with your point. Even the "can't miss" #1 prospects miss sometimes. I always think back to Manning/Leaf draft and how the perception was that they were neck and neck for whowould go #1. I wasn't that plugged in back then, but it if was really a coin flip that's the ultimate proof that nobody knows. 

[UMFan83]

49 minutes ago, jumbo said:

Bortles was #3, I think, but I completely understand and agree with your point. Even the "can't miss" #1 prospects miss sometimes. I always think back to Manning/Leaf draft and how the perception was that they were neck and neck for whowould go #1. I wasn't that plugged in back then, but it if was really a coin flip that's the ultimate proof that nobody knows. 

People were gushing over the Lawrence/Wilson/Lance/Fields class too IIRC and so far only Lawrence looks like a long term starter, and even he has been a bit underwhelming.  Quality starter but not sure if he's a HOF caliber QB.