Cubs offseason chit chat...

[CubinNY]

17 minutes ago, Bertz said:

That feels pretty fair, and BBTV thinks it's actually a slight overpay.  I don't love Moncada but I'd do it to get Cease in the door.

One additional benefit of dealing with the Sox, and this applies to the Angels too, is they're so bereft of talent you might be able to get away with a quantity over quality trade, as evidenced by the Bummer deal.

I want Eloy back too. 

[Stratos]

1 hour ago, Cuzi said:

I wish I knew why people think a team is going to trade their best player, at the most premium position on the diamond, with 2 years of control for a utility player that potentially can't play a defensive position, a long reliever, and an unknown prospect. You aren't getting Bichette for scraps.

Then offer something else.   Morel + Brown.  If Morel played middle infield a full season I think his WAR would be somewhere in the 3's.

[Cuzi]

9 minutes ago, Stratos said:

Then offer something else.   Morel + Brown.  If Morel played middle infield a full season I think his WAR would be somewhere in the 3's.

You must be under the assumption that Morel would automatically increase his WAR by playing defense, as if he is a positive defender... based on what?

Morel isn't half the player Bichette is. Morel just has more power. Stop thinking a team that's trying to contend with Bichette being their best player, is going to trade that player to get worse for a prospect.

[17 Seconds]

17 minutes ago, Cuzi said:

You must be under the assumption that Morel would automatically increase his WAR by playing defense, as if he is a positive defender... based on what?

do you know how positional value works?

[Cuzi]

25 minutes ago, 17 Seconds said:

do you know how positional value works?

Do you know how bad defense hurts an accumulative stat? Take a gander at Jordan Walker if you dont.

[Rcal10]

1 hour ago, ToolDRT said:

I don’t know, Moncada is pretty expensive for how meh-to-sucky he’s been. If Ohtani doesn’t work I’d rather just go all in on Yamamoto and trade for a 3rd baseman. 

I don’t know. I doubt they get Yamamoto. Maybe they get the lefty from Japan. Moncada is a bit pricey, but that is the reason they can get Cease for a lower trade value. I think Moncada is worth a one year risk. Next year is a team option. So if he sucks you let him go. I think there is still room for Ohtani and another solid pitcher. Let’s be real here, Cubs are never going to get Yamamoto and Ohtani. Maybe instead of Hoskins they go with Belt. Save a little money there too. 

[17 Seconds]

18 minutes ago, Cuzi said:

Do you know how bad defense hurts an accumulative stat? Take a gander at Jordan Walker if you dont.

a bad middle infielder would still be more valuable than someone who can't play it at all. but it doesn't really matter, because morel can't 

[Cuzi]

11 minutes ago, 17 Seconds said:

a bad middle infielder would still be more valuable than someone who can't play it at all. but it doesn't really matter, because morel can't 

Morel can't play it at all? I'm positive Morel could play a bad 3B. If your argument is that positional value alone is going to increase his worth then the Cubs would have him playing 3B, but they dont. They actively choose to avoid giving him the opportunity to play 3B because he's more valuable by playing as little defense as possible.

[ToolDRT]

26 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I don’t know. I doubt they get Yamamoto. Maybe they get the lefty from Japan. Moncada is a bit pricey, but that is the reason they can get Cease for a lower trade value. I think Moncada is worth a one year risk. Next year is a team option. So if he sucks you let him go. I think there is still room for Ohtani and another solid pitcher. Let’s be real here, Cubs are never going to get Yamamoto and Ohtani. Maybe instead of Hoskins they go with Belt. Save a little money there too. 

Yeah, what I meant was I don’t really want Moncada if Ohtani happens. He feels like a huge waste of what will be limited resources at that point. Assuming, Ohtani doesn’t happen, I’d love to do all in on Yamamoto due to him being a money purchase and not involving prospects at all. 
 

Im just having a hard time convincing myself to throw the money away on Moncada for the year. Also, because I feel like the Sox see Cease as one of their bigger pieces and I’m not sure they’ll want to anchor his trade value with a bad contract. 

[WhyCantWeWin]

Thank God the Cardinals signed Gibson. Was afraid he was Hoyers #1 target

[ToolDRT]

1 minute ago, WhyCantWeWin said:

Thank God the Cardinals signed Gibson. Was afraid he was Hoyers #1 target

Cards fans are not liking the last two days of their off-season 😬

[Bertz]

Just now, ToolDRT said:

Yeah, what I meant was I don’t really want Moncada if Ohtani happens. He feels like a huge waste of what will be limited resources at that point. Assuming, Ohtani doesn’t happen, I’d love to do all in on Yamamoto due to him being a money purchase and not involving prospects at all. 
 

Im just having a hard time convincing myself to throw the money away on Moncada for the year. Also, because I feel like the Sox see Cease as one of their bigger pieces and I’m not sure they’ll want to anchor his trade value with a bad contract. 

Yeah I was just noodling with a Moncada/Cease trade and yeah it doesn't work with an Ohtani or Soto offseason.  You end up having to do one of the following:

- sign someone kind of sad like Garret Cooper or Donovan Solano to start at 1B

- Trade away so much pitching depth that Drew Smyly is back to being like the 5th or 6th starter 

- Really take a sledgehammer to the farm system

That said if Pete Alonso or Cody Bellinger are the big bat it might work since they make ~$10M less than Soto and ~$25M less than Ohtani 

[mul21]

Just now, ToolDRT said:

Cards fans are not liking the last two days of their off-season 😬

Nor should they.  Those are bottom of the barrel signings that will fill out the back of a rotation that has nothing but 4s and 5s already in it.  I'd be pissed if I was a fan.

[Rob]

1 minute ago, WhyCantWeWin said:

Thank God the Cardinals signed Gibson. Was afraid he was Hoyers #1 target

I like Gibson. There's nothing sexy about his production, but he's stayed healthy and productive for a long time. He's no better than a quality #4 on a good pitching staff, but that's got real value.

He's always given me Jeff Suppan vibes. I guess now I know why.

[Bertz]

In a vacuum that's a nifty deal for Gibson.  Outside of a vacuum though their offseason increasingly looks like it will end up being Sonny Gray, Gibson, Lynn, and whatever Tyler O'Neil brings back in trade.  Not very inspiring when the Brewers are vulnerable and to this point the Cubs haven't done jack

[Jason Ross]

Another year and I'd be really into Kyle Gibson. I like that gamble infinitely more than Lance Lynn. But I'll live without him on the Cubs with what they need right now.

[ToolDRT]

 

[Jason Ross]

8 minutes ago, ToolDRT said:

 

Good for Banner. 

[Tryptamine]

So right now the Cardinal Rotation includes

Kyle Gibson: 36 years old

Miles Mikolas: 35 years old

Lance Lynn: 36 years old

Steven Matz: 32 years old

Well, they certainly have the well seasoned veteran part of the market cornered.

[Rcal10]

48 minutes ago, Bertz said:

Yeah I was just noodling with a Moncada/Cease trade and yeah it doesn't work with an Ohtani or Soto offseason.  You end up having to do one of the following:

- sign someone kind of sad like Garret Cooper or Donovan Solano to start at 1B

- Trade away so much pitching depth that Drew Smyly is back to being like the 5th or 6th starter 

- Really take a sledgehammer to the farm system

That said if Pete Alonso or Cody Bellinger are the big bat it might work since they make ~$10M less than Soto and ~$25M less than Ohtani 

I guess they can trade for Cease without Moncada if they want to give up Morel and maybe either Cassie or Alcantara. They would still be able to make whatever other moves they need as well, including either Ohtani or Soto. 
 

[chibears55]

21 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

So right now the Cardinal Rotation includes

Kyle Gibson: 36 years old

Miles Mikolas: 35 years old

Lance Lynn: 36 years old

Steven Matz: 32 years old

Well, they certainly have the well seasoned veteran part of the market cornered.

With this rotation for the Cardinals,  The Brewers doing a semi rebuild,  and the Reds and Pirates being the Reds and Pirates, The Cubs have a big opportunity to run that division for a couple seasons by making the right moves.

[Bertz]

33 minutes ago, ToolDRT said:

 

I didn't realize he wasn't already an AGM.  Guys who regularly chat with the media are usually already at that AGM level.  I guess the fact that he's already so visible is a nod to how much the FO thinks of him.

We probably also see this promotion paired with hiring someone from the outside as well.  I also saw in the Athletic this AM that Hottovy has been doing more front office-y type work this winter.  Very much feels like backfilling for Breslow is a team effort, which makes sense. 

[Thusly Boned]

19 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

So right now the Cardinal Rotation includes

Kyle Gibson: 36 years old

Miles Mikolas: 35 years old

Lance Lynn: 36 years old

Steven Matz: 32 years old

Well, they certainly have the well seasoned veteran part of the market cornered.

Yeah, it's not looking good for them. I see a lot of their fans saying things like "this is fine if we get Yamamoto/Snell", but that's just pure copium; they're not getting either of those guys. 

I see Mozeliak going after Gray/Montgomery and calling it a rotation at that point. Snell would be a reach, Yamamoto I don't see as even being a remote possibility for them. Maybe they trade for Cease, but their realistic TOR options are few. They're not swimming in the deep end of the pool.

 

[Tryptamine]

1 minute ago, XZero77 said:

Yeah, it's not looking good for them. I see a lot of their fans saying things like "this is fine if we get Yamamoto/Snell", but that's just pure copium; they're not getting either of those guys. 

I see Mozeliak going after Gray/Montgomery and calling it a rotation at that point. Snell would be a reach, Yamamoto I don't see as even being a remote possibility for them. Maybe they trade for Cease, but their realistic TOR options are few. They're not swimming in the deep end of the pool.

 

I'm really hoping they grab Wade Miley so they can make a run at oldest starting rotation ever.

[17 Seconds]

1 hour ago, Cuzi said:

Morel can't play it at all? I'm positive Morel could play a bad 3B. If your argument is that positional value alone is going to increase his worth then the Cubs would have him playing 3B, but they dont. They actively choose to avoid giving him the opportunity to play 3B because he's more valuable by playing as little defense as possible.

3b is not middle infield, which we were clearly talking about