2014 Hall of Fame voting

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

So, if you're a voter that votes for Mark Mcguire, why would you not vote for Sammy Sosa? I'm not arguing that they've been equal players, but if you are ok with Mcguire, clearly the PED issue doesn't preclude you from voting someone into the HoF. And given that, what is the case for Sammy to be excluded?

 

Must have something against corkers.

[jersey cubs fan]

So, if you're a voter that votes for Mark Mcguire, why would you not vote for Sammy Sosa? I'm not arguing that they've been equal players, but if you are ok with Mcguire, clearly the PED issue doesn't preclude you from voting someone into the HoF. And given that, what is the case for Sammy to be excluded?

 

And yet there's a 16% gap.

 

He wasn't nearly as good as McGuire.

[Banedon]

So, if you're a voter that votes for Mark Mcguire, why would you not vote for Sammy Sosa? I'm not arguing that they've been equal players, but if you are ok with Mcguire, clearly the PED issue doesn't preclude you from voting someone into the HoF. And given that, what is the case for Sammy to be excluded?

 

And yet there's a 16% gap.

 

He wasn't nearly as good as McGuire.

 

Yes, I understand that. But he was clearly good enough to be in without the PED considerations.

 

Must have something against corkers.

 

I guess one form of cheating is more acceptable than another.

[bukie]

Seems only fitting that the official BBWAA email is bbwaa@aol.com

[SouthSideRyan]

It's McGwire

 

More alarming are people who voted for Bonds and not Clemens or vice versa

[Cubswin11]

Regarding Morris and guys voting him in mostly for his WS game. Doesn't the HOF have an area dedicated to individual performances/games/moments even for non HOF guys? I would imagine they acknowledge that game/performance in the area, isn't that enough for Morris?

 

I don't know because I never have, nor will I, ever step foot in the HOF.

[Formerly Snayke]

This was a good, but infuriating read. MLB should really just take the power of voting out of the hands of writers. I don't care that there's no place that will display a proper bust of Barry Bonds or Mark McGwire, but I care deeply that self-righteous blowhards like Tom Verducci get shut out of the process.

[UMFan83]

So, if you're a voter that votes for Mark Mcguire, why would you not vote for Sammy Sosa? I'm not arguing that they've been equal players, but if you are ok with Mcguire, clearly the PED issue doesn't preclude you from voting someone into the HoF. And given that, what is the case for Sammy to be excluded?

 

And yet there's a 16% gap.

 

He wasn't nearly as good as McGuire.

 

McGwire had a 5.2 WAR as a skinny rookie. HOF voters that vote for him probably subscribe to the "HOFer without steroids" theory. Sosa was a good, sometimes very good player who suddenly exploded into a superstar for 5-6 year period.

 

Also I think those that vote for McGwire probably took the fact that he basically owned up to his steroid use, while Sosa still refuses to admit he did anything wrong. He lost all credibility to deny cheating when he 1) got caught with a corked bat, 2) explained in extremely broken english that he accidently grabbed a batting practice bat 3) used more extremely broken english to not incriminate himself while being questioned about steroid use in congress and 4) was named in a report as someone who tested positive for steroids. It's a stupid reason why, but I definitely think thats the general thought process.

 

Also, the numbers show McGwire was clearly the superior player, although just looking at the numbers and nothing else they both have HOF worthy numbers.

[sweetpeteman]

This was a good, but infuriating read. MLB should really just take the power of voting out of the hands of writers. I don't care that there's no place that will display a proper bust of Barry Bonds or Mark McGwire, but I care deeply that self-righteous blowhards like Tom Verducci get shut out of the process.

 

 

 

MLB can't take the voting, as it doesn't control it in the first place. The National Baseball Hall of Fame is a separate entity.

[ConstableRabbit]

So, if you're a voter that votes for Mark Mcguire, why would you not vote for Sammy Sosa? I'm not arguing that they've been equal players, but if you are ok with Mcguire, clearly the PED issue doesn't preclude you from voting someone into the HoF. And given that, what is the case for Sammy to be excluded?

 

And yet there's a 16% gap.

 

He wasn't nearly as good as McGuire.

 

McGwire had a 5.2 WAR as a skinny rookie. HOF voters that vote for him probably subscribe to the "HOFer without steroids" theory. Sosa was a good, sometimes very good player who suddenly exploded into a superstar for 5-6 year period.

 

Also I think those that vote for McGwire probably took the fact that he basically owned up to his steroid use, while Sosa still refuses to admit he did anything wrong. He lost all credibility to deny cheating when he 1) got caught with a corked bat, 2) explained in extremely broken english that he accidently grabbed a batting practice bat 3) used more extremely broken english to not incriminate himself while being questioned about steroid use in congress and 4) was named in a report as someone who tested positive for steroids. It's a stupid reason why, but I definitely think thats the general thought process.

 

Also, the numbers show McGwire was clearly the superior player, although just looking at the numbers and nothing else they both have HOF worthy numbers.

 

The knock on Sosa using an interpreter always really bugged me. There's an immense difference from the English used to say "Beisbol ha been bery bery good to me" and the language skills required to testify before Congress. The man probably spoke more Spanish than English in any given year -- give him a break!

[Guest]

Sorry, this might be bad to admit as a Cubs fan, but I love Frank Thomas. Glad he made it in.

Frank Thomas was awesome. No need to be ashamed.

 

Exactly.

 

His beer? Not so good.

[Banedon]

I was trying to find out why Maddux didn't make the All Star Team in 1993, in the middle of his streak of 4 straight Cy's, and I found the answer in this article: http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1993-07-14/sports/1993195151_1_gaston-lefty-odoul-maddux

 

Bobby Cox didn't want to select Maddux because he'd already pitched on Sunday.

 

But the best thing about that article is that Ken Rosenthal is upset that Cox picked Smoltz (7-7) and would've picked Maddux (8-8) over three 10 game winners...Bill Swift, Chris Hammond, and Tommy Greene....who???

[OleMissCub]

This is random, but Kirby Puckett got in on first ballot and was basically given an "injury discount". Mattingly never got higher than 28% and also had his career cut short with injury.

 

Puckett: 10 All Stars, 6 GG, 2304 hits, 1085 RBI, .318/.360/.477, 124 OPS+

Mattingly: 6 All Stars, 9 GG, 2153 hits, 1099 RBI, .307/.358/.471, 127 OPS+

 

I suppose Puckett's position has a huge deal to do with the disparity for votes. Also being a WS winner and hero helped.

[imb]

What annoys me is voting in LaRussa, who watched over Canseco and McGwire, and then treating McGwire like a [expletive] terrorist. I'm sure someone has written that column, and I want to read it.

[Formerly Snayke]

MLB can't take the voting, as it doesn't control it in the first place. The National Baseball Hall of Fame is a separate entity.

 

Bummer. I just heard Ray Ratto say that Mark McGwire didn't have enough elite seasons, even though he has OPS+'s of 164, 144, 176, 200, 196, 170, 216 and 176. He hit 39 home runs in 104 games in 1995. I get that he was on steroids, but how in the world is that not elite enough for pudgy sportswriters? When it comes to McGwire and Palmeiro, writers are moving the goalposts on why they won't give them votes. It was about steroids; now it's about saying they didn't play at a Hall of Fame level.

[TruffleShuffle]

What annoys me is voting in LaRussa, who watched over Canseco and McGwire, and then treating McGwire like a [expletive] terrorist. I'm sure someone has written that column, and I want to read it.

 

great point.

[bukie]

What annoys me is voting in LaRussa, who watched over Canseco and McGwire, and then treating McGwire like a [expletive] terrorist. I'm sure someone has written that column, and I want to read it.

Not to mention they were all voted in unanimously.

[jersey cubs fan]

What annoys me is voting in LaRussa, who watched over Canseco and McGwire, and then treating McGwire like a [expletive] terrorist. I'm sure someone has written that column, and I want to read it.

Not to mention they were all voted in unanimously.

 

By a completely different group of people (16 total).

[bukie]

What annoys me is voting in LaRussa, who watched over Canseco and McGwire, and then treating McGwire like a [expletive] terrorist. I'm sure someone has written that column, and I want to read it.

Not to mention they were all voted in unanimously.

 

By a completely different group of people (16 total).

And yet is still a lame double standard.

[SouthSideRyan]

What annoys me is voting in LaRussa, who watched over Canseco and McGwire, and then treating McGwire like a [expletive] terrorist. I'm sure someone has written that column, and I want to read it.

 

Olbermann touched on it when he was first elected, more under the narrative of Marvin Miller being denied again, but it was still a decent piece.

 

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=10125463

 

ETA and if you want a hackpiece on it, here's Reilly

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10116177/rick-reilly-torre-la-russa-cox

[davell]

http://m.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/greg-maddux-a-hall-of-fame-approach-that-carried-an-average-arm-to-cooperstown/2014/01/07/fdd7ae82-77d3-11e3-af7f-13bf0e9965f6_story.html

 

http://deadspin.com/heres-an-awesome-story-about-greg-maddux-1497441759?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

 

Two excellent Maddux pieces.

[UK1679666180]

This is random, but Kirby Puckett got in on first ballot and was basically given an "injury discount". Mattingly never got higher than 28% and also had his career cut short with injury.

 

Puckett: 10 All Stars, 6 GG, 2304 hits, 1085 RBI, .318/.360/.477, 124 OPS+

Mattingly: 6 All Stars, 9 GG, 2153 hits, 1099 RBI, .307/.358/.471, 127 OPS+

 

I suppose Puckett's position has a huge deal to do with the disparity for votes. Also being a WS winner and hero helped.

 

Perceived as more of a loveable guy until his one incident, declining health before he passed, you mentioned the position, more post-season success.

 

Im glad in a way that Mattingly didnt get in based on the size of the market he played in.

[UK1679666180]

This is random, but Kirby Puckett got in on first ballot and was basically given an "injury discount". Mattingly never got higher than 28% and also had his career cut short with injury.

 

Puckett: 10 All Stars, 6 GG, 2304 hits, 1085 RBI, .318/.360/.477, 124 OPS+

Mattingly: 6 All Stars, 9 GG, 2153 hits, 1099 RBI, .307/.358/.471, 127 OPS+

 

I suppose Puckett's position has a huge deal to do with the disparity for votes. Also being a WS winner and hero helped.

 

Perceived as more of a loveable guy until his one incident, declining health before he passed, you mentioned the position, more post-season success.

 

Im glad in a way that Mattingly didnt get in based on the size of the market he played in.

[imb]

When they played together on the Cubs, Mark Grace once noticed Maddux walking around the pitching mound in a very strained, uncomfortable manner. Fearing his teammate was hurt, Grace approached the mound, only to find Maddux in an state of obvious physical excitement, the kind normally reserved for passionate endeavors.

 

"Man, you really do love to pitch," Grace marveled.

 

It's the best story I've ever heard from Grace. And that's saying something.

[OleMissCub]

When they played together on the Cubs, Mark Grace once noticed Maddux walking around the pitching mound in a very strained, uncomfortable manner. Fearing his teammate was hurt, Grace approached the mound, only to find Maddux in an state of obvious physical excitement, the kind normally reserved for passionate endeavors.

 

"Man, you really do love to pitch," Grace marveled.

 

It's the best story I've ever heard from Grace. And that's saying something.

 

That's beautiful