2014 Hall of Fame voting

[mul21]

About those 16 that didn't vote for Maddux...We know that one ballot was blank and that another guy made a horrifyingly stupid case for why he didn't vote for Maddux because he played in the roid era, but I'd love to know about the other 14. I mean, I don't think it's possible to make a case that Maddux isn't a Hall of Famer. If they want to claim that LeBatard has besmirched the BBWAA, then the BBWAA needs to call out everyone who didn't vote for Maddux and have them make a case for why he isn't a Hall of Famer because they are really just being trolls by not voting for him and being a troll isn't "honorable" either.

I remember a month or so ago there was a theory that there definitely would be a fair amount of guys who wouldn't vote for him knowing he was a lock to get in and they would use his vote on someone else they thought might have a hard time even staying on the ballot for next year, let alone get elected this year, they think is worthy. I get that line of thought, I guess.

 

That's the only acceptable line of thinking that gets Maddux left off a ballot. I'm willing to bet that not even close to all 14 of those ballots had 10 guys voted for on them though.

[SouthSideRyan]

About those 16 that didn't vote for Maddux...We know that one ballot was blank and that another guy made a horrifyingly stupid case for why he didn't vote for Maddux because he played in the roid era, but I'd love to know about the other 14. I mean, I don't think it's possible to make a case that Maddux isn't a Hall of Famer. If they want to claim that LeBatard has besmirched the BBWAA, then the BBWAA needs to call out everyone who didn't vote for Maddux and have them make a case for why he isn't a Hall of Famer because they are really just being trolls by not voting for him and being a troll isn't "honorable" either.

I remember a month or so ago there was a theory that there definitely would be a fair amount of guys who wouldn't vote for him knowing he was a lock to get in and they would use his vote on someone else they thought might have a hard time even staying on the ballot for next year, let alone get elected this year, they think is worthy. I get that line of thought, I guess.

 

I'd expect that strategic voting from the guys with public ballots not the 110 year old fossils who were private

[bukie]

About those 16 that didn't vote for Maddux...We know that one ballot was blank and that another guy made a horrifyingly stupid case for why he didn't vote for Maddux because he played in the roid era, but I'd love to know about the other 14. I mean, I don't think it's possible to make a case that Maddux isn't a Hall of Famer. If they want to claim that LeBatard has besmirched the BBWAA, then the BBWAA needs to call out everyone who didn't vote for Maddux and have them make a case for why he isn't a Hall of Famer because they are really just being trolls by not voting for him and being a troll isn't "honorable" either.

I remember a month or so ago there was a theory that there definitely would be a fair amount of guys who wouldn't vote for him knowing he was a lock to get in and they would use his vote on someone else they thought might have a hard time even staying on the ballot for next year, let alone get elected this year, they think is worthy. I get that line of thought, I guess.

 

I'd expect that strategic voting from the guys with public ballots not the 110 year old fossils who were private

You can hardly blame those people for not making their vote public though. How are they supposed to do that without a computer, or electricity?

[rocket]

Lawrence Rocca voted for Raines (yay), Trammell (yay), Morris (eh), and Nomo (WTF).

 

He did not vote for Greg Maddux, Frank Thomas, Tom Glavine, or anyone else.

 

http://bbwaa.com/14-hof-ballots/

 

Explain that one

[bukie]

Lawrence Rocca voted for Raines (yay), Trammell (yay), Morris (eh), and Nomo (WTF).

 

He did not vote for Greg Maddux, Frank Thomas, Tom Glavine, or anyone else.

 

http://bbwaa.com/14-hof-ballots/

 

Explain that one

They didn't have steroids in the 80s or in Japan.

[bhogg]

No player did more on cocaine, and kept his performance at a HoF level, than Tim Raines. God bless him.

 

I'll always support him for the hall.

[SouthSideRyan]

Lawrence Rocca voted for Raines (yay), Trammell (yay), Morris (eh), and Nomo (WTF).

 

He did not vote for Greg Maddux, Frank Thomas, Tom Glavine, or anyone else.

 

http://bbwaa.com/14-hof-ballots/

 

Explain that one

 

Will this do?

 

http://books.google.com/books/about/Nomo_in_America.html?id=oZnnkQEACAAJ

[OleMissCub]

Lawrence Rocca voted for Raines (yay), Trammell (yay), Morris (eh), and Nomo (WTF).

 

He did not vote for Greg Maddux, Frank Thomas, Tom Glavine, or anyone else.

 

http://bbwaa.com/14-hof-ballots/

 

Explain that one

 

Will this do?

 

http://books.google.com/books/about/Nomo_in_America.html?id=oZnnkQEACAAJ

 

Once again, voters making it about themselves. Guys like that should lose their vote.

[bukie]

Awful ballots, from Awful Announcing: http://www.awfulannouncing.com/2014/january/2014-s-worst-baseball-hall-of-fame-ballots.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[ConstableRabbit]

God, Awful Announcing really needs to hire a damn UI expert. Their text walls + cluttered site design make it really tough to continue reading, good content be damned.

[Clem Fandango]

God, Awful Announcing really needs to hire a damn UI expert. Their text walls + cluttered site design make it really tough to continue reading, good content be damned.

 

Heh, I know exactly what Wordpress theme they're using. It's ollllld

 

http://www.yootheme.com/blog/2011/10/31/big-easy-theme

[Clem Fandango]

http://www.kenstewartphoto.net/dowling_drivel_blog/?p=4208

 

Craig Biggio, the Houston Astro second baseman, fell two votes short. One of those could have been mine. I refuse to vote for a guy who cheats, as Biggio did with all that armor on his arm, so he could get hit with pitches and trot to first base as a result. He made no attempt to avoid getting hit and actually stuck that arm out further, inducing the ball to smack him.

 

Some notes from the comments at Reddit:

 

1) He's not a writer. He's a cartoonist. He's not even a BBWAA badge holder, but an honorary member.

2) He overlooked Frank Thomas. Why? In part because "Maybe it’s because I seldom saw the American League after moving to a National League city."

3) He voted for Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, and Mark McGwire, even though they all used PEDs, because "those guys had the numbers long before they juiced."

4) He voted for Barry Bonds even though he wore the same body armor as Biggio.

[Guest]

I stopped reading at "Chicago Flubbies".

[SouthSideRyan]

 

1) He's not a writer. He's a cartoonist. He's not even a BBWAA badge holder, but an honorary member.

 

There are scads of these guys. Last year at btf they noted there were like 3 guys voting that hadn't written about baseball in 20 years and write for a [expletive] golf website

[OleMissCub]

2) He overlooked Frank Thomas. Why? In part because "Maybe it’s because I seldom saw the American League after moving to a National League city."

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/RaidersoftheLostArk_zps0abb68d5.gif

[Soul]

I love how he speculates about his own motivations from the third prison, kind of like someone who's had a psychotic episode.

[TruffleShuffle]

mcgwire had like 100 home runs before he started juicing.

[Cubswin11]

Jesus Christ, Shaughnessy.

 

I’ve been voting since 1986 and I truly miss the good old days when we argued about home runs, batting averages, ERAs, World Series performances, All-Star Games, and a player’s dominance at his position in his era. Things were so much simpler then. Saying yes to Ron Santo or no to Jim Kaat was a serious baseball debate. This was before PEDs and WAR and ALDS and Deadspin buying a Hall of Fame ballot. Now there is so much to consider, it makes one’s head explode.

[Sammy Sofa]

Wait...the ALDS? How the hell does that complicate things?

[jersey cubs fan]

Wait...the ALDS? How the hell does that complicate things?

 

Modern era guys have playoff numbers that dwarf their predecessors, since they play so many more games, and more guys can get in.

 

 

It blurs the "he was a clutch playoff performer" argument that dolts like this like to use.

[Sammy Sofa]

Wait...the ALDS? How the hell does that complicate things?

 

Modern era guys have playoff numbers that dwarf their predecessors, since they play so many more games, and more guys can get in.

 

 

It blurs the "he was a clutch playoff performer" argument that dolts like this like to use.

 

I keep willfully forgetting "he doesn't perform in the playoffs" because it's such a stupid thing.

[jersey cubs fan]

http://deadspin.com/voting-for-a-hall-of-fame-isnt-that-hard-1500249225

 

it's a tough job

[Cubswin11]

Wait...the ALDS? How the hell does that complicate things?

Or that he makes the notion that PEDs weren't around in 1986 or the years surrounding it.

[OleMissCub]

Cool piece from Posnanski about how the HOF would look if we were still inducting players according to the historical norms, which would be about 1.25-2% of all players born in each decade.

 

http://joeposnanski.com/joeblogs/the-new-hall/#more-1396

 

Dave says that from 1961 to 1970, 2,656 Major League players were born. That’s a lot more than any previous decade because of expansion. If you take the top 1.25% of those players, that would make 33 players who deserve to be in the Hall of Famer. That doesn’t sound unreasonable. But, when you dig a little deeper into it, you find: That’s WAY more than the current momentum.

 

Here, as Dave says, are the players born in the decade who are in the Hall of Fame.

1. Barry Larkin

2. Roberto Alomar

 

OK, a couple of excellent middle infielders. OK. Now, here are the players who will unquestionably get elected … on the first ballot, I would think:

 

3. Greg Maddux

4. Tom Glavine

5. Frank Thomas

6. Randy Johnson

7. Ken Griffey

8. John Smoltz

9. Mariano Rivera

 

And here are players I think will get elected:

10. Craig Biggio (maybe even this year)

11. Jeff Bagwell

12. Mike Piazza

13. Jim Thome

14. Trevor Hoffman

 

Um, We are still not even halfway to the 33 players who, by the Hall’s historical standard, should be Hall of Famers. So, let’s list some players who could get elected, you know, with some momentum:

15. Curt Schilling

16. Mike Mussina

17. Omar Vizquel. It’s possible that Omar will have an easier time of it than this, I’m just projecting.

 

Wow, barely halfway. How about some players who will need some help, but have some strong supporters:

18. Edgar Martinez

19. Larry Walker

20. Fred McGriff

 

Whew, were still not even close to 33. Well, of course, you notice we haven’t yet included the players connected with PEDs. We won’t rehash the arguments here, but will just list them off — all six, I think, had Hall of Fame careers:

22. Barry Bonds

22. Roger Clemens

23. Mark McGwire

24. Gary Sheffield

25. Sammy Sosa

26. Rafael Palmeiro

 

And you know what? We’re STILL not especially close to the 1.25% that is the traditional standard for the Baseball Hall of Fame.

 

Who else could we add here?

 

27. Jeff Kent

 

There are much bigger Kent fans than me out there, so I probably should have listed him earlier. He did hit 377 home runs, which is by far the most ever for a second baseman. And he won an MVP award. He also had eight seasons with 100-plus RBIs, which is another record for second basemen. On second thought, he’ll probably have a growing cadre of supporters — he might belong with the McGriff group.

 

28. Kevin Brown

 

Nobody particularly seemed to like Kevin Brown, so there wasn’t much fuss when he disappeared from the ballot. But he pitched more than 3,200 innings with a 127 ERA+. There were 20 players born before 1960 who threw at least 2,000 innings with an ERA+ of 125 or better. All but one — Tommy Bridges, who threw fewer innings than Brown and was not as effective — are in the Hall of Fame.

 

Um, OK, five more to go. Now what?

 

29. Kenny Lofton

 

He fell off the ballot after his first year, but Lofton was a Gold Glove centerfielder who just about hit .300, stole more than 600 bases and scored more than 1,500 runs. The only players born before 1960 to score 1,500 runs and not make the Hall of Fame are Pete Rose and Tim Raines. And Raines is pushing his way up the charts.

 

30. Jim Edmonds

 

His career was short, so he didn’t get 2,000 hits or 400 home runs, but he was an extraordinary center fielder who got on base, hit with power, Duke Snider is one of his Baseball Reference comps. I think he was one of the top 1.25% players of his time.

 

We’re STILL not there. Who else?

 

31. David Cone

 

What you find here, on the bottom end, are great players who had serious flaws. Cone’s flaw was the shortness of his career. His failure to win 200 games cut him off as a BBWAA Hall candidate, but he was a great pitcher. He he won a Cy Young Award and was a viable candidate three or four other times. He pitched in four World Series. His 121 ERA+ is certainly in Hall of Fame territory.

 

32. Don Mattingly

 

He still has many fans despite a very short career. There was a three or four year span when many people thought Mattingly was the best player in baseball. He probably was not — he never even finished Top 5 in WAR — but he was a high-average, Gold Glove first baseman who cranked doubles and homers and almost never struck out. He was a bleepin’ ballplayer.

 

Still one more spot? Well, you might consider John Olerud, Will Clark, Robin Ventura, Bernie Williams, Bret Saberhagen, You say: Oh come on, those guys weren’t Hall of Famers. But this is the point: Historically, they were — or they were right on the brink. If you go back to those players before 1910 — when more than 2% of the players were elected — you would still have to find TWENTY more players for the Hall. You would start talking about Kevin Appier and Chuck Finley, Matt Williams and Darryl Strawberry, Steve Finley and Jamie Moyer, Mark Langston, Jimmy Key and David Justice.

[TruffleShuffle]

Jesus Christ, Shaughnessy.

 

I’ve been voting since 1986 and I truly miss the good old days when we argued about home runs, batting averages, ERAs, World Series performances, All-Star Games, and a player’s dominance at his position in his era. Things were so much simpler then. Saying yes to Ron Santo or no to Jim Kaat was a serious baseball debate. This was before PEDs and WAR and ALDS and Deadspin buying a Hall of Fame ballot. Now there is so much to consider, it makes one’s head explode.

 

i've been trying to decide if shaughnessy or clarence thomas is a bigger disgrace to my alma mater.