Cashner and Na traded for Rizzo and Cates

[SouthSideRyan]

The hitting version of a pitcher with a million dollar arm and ten cent head.

[toonsterwu]

I'm just decidedly lukewarm on Rizzo, as I think he's a bit over-hyped and I question if he's this elite corner slugger some are making him out to be this off-season.

 

He doesn't have to be elite to have this trade work out wonderfully.

 

That's true. Just has to be a solid starting caliber first baseman and this trade works out well overall.

[imb]

fielder is going to sign with seattle in about 9 minutes

[toonsterwu]

LOVE LOVE LOVE this trade.

 

I honestly thought that, with the way some of the rumors had been presented earlier, that Rizzo would have costed us a lot more than this.

 

Really? We just gave up a high upside upper level arm. Granted, Cashner had big concerns to deal with off of injury, but that's a pretty steep price to pay in a deal these days overall, with how teams protect young pitchers with upside. You could make the case that Cashner was the highest valued asset in the deal, thus they had to toss Cates in, who I think is the clear 3rd highest valued asset in the deal, with us throwing a throw in in.

 

Only because pitching is overvalued.

 

Completely agree. I think it's gotten to the point where it's a bit ridiculous. I remember a San Diego/Oakland trade a few years back (I think for Scott Hairston) where they got three arms and it was considered a win, but to the best of my recollection, all three prospect arms were fairly average.

 

But even though it is over-valued, it is the environment we are in these days.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

His super-awesome AAA numbers came with a .369 BABIP, and his terrible MLB ones came with a .210 BABIP.

 

He has some power, he can take a walk, and he plays good defense. I don't think he's going to be a superstar, but he should project to be a pretty good player long-term.

[toonsterwu]

Where does Rizzo rank in top prospect lists? I know BA has him as the #1 Padres prospect, but have there been any top 100 lists released recently?

 

I imagine the majority will have Rizzo ahead of BJax. Personally, I'm not sold that Rizzo's bat is that much better than BJax's bat to offset for the positional value BJax has over him (although Rizzo is a slick fielder at first), so personally, I'll still have BJax ahead.

 

what do you see from Rizzo's bat that you don't like? Just taking a quick glance at his slash stats, it looks like he's hit wherever he's been accept his admittedly disappointing 118 ABs in the majors this year.

 

There were a lot of folks that voiced concerns on his swing this year, and even in the minors, suggesting that it was long and couldn't catch up with inside fastballs. to be fair, a lot of corner sluggers have had this issue and still been capable starters.

Edited January 6, 2012 by toonsterwu

[rrudd2]

His super-awesome AAA numbers came with a .369 BABIP, and his terrible MLB ones came with a .210 BABIP.

 

He has some power, he can take a walk, and he plays good defense. I don't think he's going to be a superstar, but he should project to be a pretty good player long-term.

 

Sounds like Mark Grace.....

[Little Slide Rooter]

With the uncertain state of our existing and recently departed starting pitchers, I'd thought that Cashner was a shoe in for the 2013 rotation. Guess not. In fact, nobody is. Beyond 2012:

 

Zambrano

Cashner

Dempster

Garza: I'd give him 50/50 at this point

Travis Wood is a pretty safe bet to be in the rotation somwhere.

Trey McNutt should get serious consideration with a strong 2012 in the minors

Volstad, Wells, and Sonnenstine are all options, but if anything, 1 of the 3 will be.

 

Next offseason, we'll have a lot of money to play with, and depending on who makes it to free agency, there will be some dandy options.

 

If we did sign Cespedes and gave him LF, and assuming that Stewart or Vitters can hold down 3rd base our only real need for the next offseason would be starting pitching, and we should have enough money for 2 top shelf guys assuming they're available.

[Guest]

I used to be a prospect-whore, but I've never heard of Na. Heard of Ha, but not Na.

 

Smallish CF that the Cubs paid a lot for (above 700 K I believe). Arguably the best CF in the system, but bat is squadoosh right now.

 

$750k, same bonus as Hak-Ju Lee.

[SouthSideRyan]

Yeah...McNutt isn't ahead of crappy Volstad on the depth chart.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

His super-awesome AAA numbers came with a .369 BABIP, and his terrible MLB ones came with a .210 BABIP.

 

He has some power, he can take a walk, and he plays good defense. I don't think he's going to be a superstar, but he should project to be a pretty good player long-term.

 

Sounds like Mark Grace.....

 

I said he has some power.

[A New Era]

How is he with the glove? Anyone familiar with his defense? Ive heard above average.

 

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=16883961&c_id=chc

 

you won't see Fielder do that. Mostly because he'd bust his gut if he did.

[SouthSideRyan]

His super-awesome AAA numbers came with a .369 BABIP, and his terrible MLB ones came with a .210 BABIP.

 

He has some power, he can take a walk, and he plays good defense. I don't think he's going to be a superstar, but he should project to be a pretty good player long-term.

 

Sounds like Mark Grace.....

 

He's undoubtedly less of a raging douchebag.

[toonsterwu]

Love this trade. Now, I'm neither a scout nor do I follow the minor leagues as closely as some on this board. So, if one wanted to say I was out of my depth and my opinion was next to worthless on this issue, one would not inherently be wrong.

 

That said, without a personal scouting report on either player, I love the logic of this trade. The Cubs just traded a pitcher coming off an injury (with questions about his ability to become a full-fledged MLB starter?) for a similarly ranked, younger first baseman (which is a desperate, desperate, position of need). The Cubs management is also obviously very familiar, and very high, on the first baseman.

 

the logic is fine with the deal. I don't think anyone can knock the logic of the deal. I just hope Rizzo becomes this full-fledged corner slugger and stud all around bat that people are making him out to be this year (elsewhere, haven't really paid attention to what the majority think on rizzo here).

 

You seem convinced that Rizzo has to become Adrian Gonzalez for this to be a good deal. That's not even close to being the case.

 

Nah, I stated below that I know that's not the case. It's a logical deal even if Rizzo flops badly, and it's a good deal if he's a decent starter (I think, I haven't really considered the valuation aspect seriously). As I said, I lean towards the positive side anyways. I'm just lukewarm on Rizzo.

[toonsterwu]

How is he with the glove? Anyone familiar with his defense? Ive heard above average.

 

supposed to be more than above average I think. I think some folks consider him a plus guy at first.

[waffle]

Very surprised. That is quite a bit cheaper than I would have thought, and I liked Cash.

 

People will moan regardless, but to me this is potentially a really impressive trade.

[toonsterwu]

My good friend that's a huge Pads fan and tends to follow the minors closely was of the opinion that while Rizzo was great, his swing was way too long and needed to be altered. Take that for what it's worth.

 

Nothing? Got it.

 

 

"Swing is too long" is universal fan code for "He didn't hit well in his cup of coffee."

 

Actually, that's fairly true sometimes. And we have to give the kid time to adjust. And many sluggers have had long swings and been fine.

[bukie]

His super-awesome AAA numbers came with a .369 BABIP, and his terrible MLB ones came with a .210 BABIP.

 

He has some power, he can take a walk, and he plays good defense. I don't think he's going to be a superstar, but he should project to be a pretty good player long-term.

 

Sounds like Mark Grace.....

Mark Grace with more power...possibly.

[jersey cubs fan]

People will moan regardless,

 

I haven't heard that

[toonsterwu]

fielder is going to sign with seattle in about 9 minutes

 

I'd bet on the Nats still. Don't think Seattle has the dough, or the willingness to pony up said dough, to make the move. Although if the Mariners do, a ton of people will call to see if they would move Smoak.

[Brian]

I'm sure this was brought up in the middle pages of this thread but Theo & Jed really like to pass Rizzo around

 

Theo drafts him, trades him to Jed, Byrnes inherits him and then trades him to Theo/Jed

[bukie]

I'm sure this was brought up in the middle pages of this thread but Theo & Jed really like to pass Rizzo around

 

Theo drafts him, trades him to Jed, Byrnes inherits him and then trades him to Theo/Jed

Actually, it's the third time Hoyer has acquired Rizzo. He was in the Boston organization when they drafted Rizzo.

[toonsterwu]

Very surprised. That is quite a bit cheaper than I would have thought, and I liked Cash.

 

People will moan regardless, but to me this is potentially a really impressive trade.

 

I don't think anyone is moaning. I sound like the most lukewarm person on the deal, and I like it.

[Irrelevant Dude]

If we did sign Cespedes and gave him LF, and assuming that Stewart or Vitters can hold down 3rd base our only real need for the next offseason would be starting pitching, and we should have enough money for 2 top shelf guys assuming they're available.

Who is playing 2B?

[Elrhino]

Any predictions on the next trade? I think Byrd will be dealt next.