Cashner and Na traded for Rizzo and Cates

[dew1679666265]

I did read all of it. I'm just not sure why not being sold on him being an elite superstar justifies not being ecstatic over the trade.

 

I'm not sure anyone here expects him to be that.

 

Because I really like Cashner's upside potential, despite his significant injury risk. I think it's a very good trade, but one where we certainly gave up a very good pitcher in the process. There's nothing wrong with that, but for me to be ecstatic over a trade I need to feel like it was a complete steal. I don't feel that way - more that it was a very good trade for both sides.

[dew1679666265]

Just because I think Rizzo can be the combination of Fielders hitting and Derrek Lee's fielding, doesn't mean I'm overly high on him ...

 

If he becomes any semblance of that, I'll be beyond ecstatic. I hope you're right.

[Tracer Bullet]

I did read all of it. I'm just not sure why not being sold on him being an elite superstar justifies not being ecstatic over the trade.

 

I'm not sure anyone here expects him to be that.

 

Because I really like Cashner's upside potential, despite his significant injury risk. I think it's a very good trade, but one where we certainly gave up a very good pitcher in the process. There's nothing wrong with that, but for me to be ecstatic over a trade I need to feel like it was a complete steal. I don't feel that way - more that it was a very good trade for both sides.

 

Trading from an area of relative depth to one of dire need and getting the best player in the deal isn't enough for you to be ecstatic? I can understand not being ecstatic if you're down on Rizzo. But those ARam deals aren't going to come along every year.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Just because I think Rizzo can be the combination of Fielders hitting and Derrek Lee's fielding, doesn't mean I'm overly high on him ...

 

I'd be perfectly content with Derrek Lees hitting and fielding.

[dew1679666265]

Trading from an area of relative depth to one of dire need and getting the best player in the deal isn't enough for you to be ecstatic? I can understand not being ecstatic if you're down on Rizzo. But those ARam deals aren't going to come along every year.

 

Should we be getting ecstatic over deals every year? Since the ARam trade I think I've been ecstatic over two trades: Aramis/Lofton and Nomar. I was borderline ecstatic on the Marshall trade when I found out Torreyes and Sappelt were included. I might be forgetting one or two, but I don't often get ecstatic over trades. This isn't a criticism of the trade or of Theo/Jed, I simply don't see Rizzo as being such a great talent that I'll get ecstatic over giving up a potential TOR pitcher with huge injury risk for him.

 

It's a very good, smart trade, but not one that gets me over the top ecstatic.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I was ecstatic about the Marshall trade and the Nomar trade. I was pretty angry about the Ramirez trade. Bobby Hill was going to be our leadoff man for a decade, or something.

 

I'm happy about this deal, but it's not like you can get something on the level of the Marshall trade every day.

[Tracer Bullet]

Trading from an area of relative depth to one of dire need and getting the best player in the deal isn't enough for you to be ecstatic? I can understand not being ecstatic if you're down on Rizzo. But those ARam deals aren't going to come along every year.

 

Should we be getting ecstatic over deals every year? Since the ARam trade I think I've been ecstatic over two trades: Aramis/Lofton and Nomar. I was borderline ecstatic on the Marshall trade when I found out Torreyes and Sappelt were included. I might be forgetting one or two, but I don't often get ecstatic over trades. This isn't a criticism of the trade or of Theo/Jed, I simply don't see Rizzo as being such a great talent that I'll get ecstatic over giving up a potential TOR pitcher with huge injury risk for him.

 

It's a very good, smart trade, but not one that gets me over the top ecstatic.

 

Every year? Not likely (though Theo is 1/1). It's not every year that we acquire another team's #1 prospect that fills a huge need, is 22, mashed AAA, and is under control for 6 years, by giving up much less many than expected.

 

I like Cashner, though I tend to think his shot at being a great SP isn't terribly high and he's a couple years away from being a SP at all. So while SD may view this as a win bc they have other young 1b at their disposal, I think we got exactly the kind of player we need. So I'm ecstatic.

[bukie]

Just because I think Rizzo can be the combination of Fielders hitting and Derrek Lee's fielding, doesn't mean I'm overly high on him ...

 

I'd be perfectly content with Derrek Lees hitting and fielding.

I see Rizzo as hitting for less average and more power than Lee. So, like Fielder.

[dew1679666265]

Every year? Not likely (though Theo is 1/1). It's not every year that we acquire another team's #1 prospect that fills a huge need, is 22, mashed AAA, and is under control for 6 years, by giving up much less many than expected.

 

I like Cashner, though I tend to think his shot at being a great SP isn't terribly high and he's a couple years away from being a SP at all. So while SD may view this as a win bc they have other young 1b at their disposal, I think we got exactly the kind of player we need. So I'm ecstatic.

 

Being 22 and the Padres' #1 prospect are both reasons to be excited, but Cashner has 5 years under team control. Granted a couple of those would be turning him back into a starter, but there's a good chance we'll burn a couple of Rizzo's years under team control developing him into the very good first baseman he can be.

 

Part of what makes it a very good trade is that we got him for a bit less than I thought we'd get him for, but the fact that the guy I wanted to give up least for him (never thought it'd take Garza to get him) is the piece we gave for him makes me like it a bit less. If this were McNutt instead of Cashner in the deal, I'd be pretty ecstatic. But Cashner being included keeps me from gushing too much.

 

Again, though, just to be clear: this is a very good, smart trade and I'm not criticizing it.

[dew1679666265]

I was ecstatic about the Marshall trade and the Nomar trade. I was pretty angry about the Ramirez trade. Bobby Hill was going to be our leadoff man for a decade, or something.

 

I'm happy about this deal, but it's not like you can get something on the level of the Marshall trade every day.

 

I was an absolutely huge fan of Aramis' talent before we acquired him. The numbers weren't there, but I had watched him multiple times in person and really liked him. Adding Lofton in that deal, who was one of my favorite players growing up, just made it that much better.

 

The only piece I didn't like giving up was Bobby Hill, but my overwhelming love of Aramis/Lofton made losing Hill not matter much.

Edited January 7, 2012 by dew

[JGalt73]

Does this trade also satisfy the compensation owned for Hoyer & McLeod?

[Outshined_One]

Zach Cates is actually a fascinating prospect. His peripherals in the MWL were solid last season (despite the walks), where he racked up Ks and kept HRs down. I love pitchers with good fastball/changeup combinations. With a better curveball, my guess is his walk numbers will decrease. I'm tempted to put him in my Top 20.

 

I'm sad to see Cashner go, but I really like this deal for the Cubs.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Does this trade also satisfy the compensation owned for Hoyer & McLeod?

 

Considering we seemingly won big in this trade, I'll go with no.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Just because I think Rizzo can be the combination of Fielders hitting and Derrek Lee's fielding, doesn't mean I'm overly high on him ...

 

I'd be perfectly content with Derrek Lees hitting and fielding.

I see Rizzo as hitting for less average and more power than Lee. So, like Fielder.

 

 

Lee has a career .281 avg. to Fielders .282. I know that it's a smaller size, but aside from one year, Fielders always hit for a pretty good average. Perhaps you're thinking Adam Dunn.

[Geech]

Have posters at SOSH starting suggesting that Rizzo would be logical compensation for Epstein?

[davell]

Callis brought up a good point about Theo's compensation. Boston DESERVES something good, but they're not going to get it. Because Lucchino let us talk to Theo without discussing comp beforehand. Oopsy.

[Guest]

Callis brought up a good point about Theo's compensation. Boston DESERVES something good, but they're not going to get it. Because Lucchino let us talk to Theo without discussing comp beforehand. Oopsy.

 

They don't deserve anything really.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I still think they have to end up with something of use. When Selig finally came close to stepping in and Theo was granted his release from Boston it was with the understanding that they'd get something. Considering the likely direction of the 2 teams, it might make the most sense to wait until mid season when the Red Sox are likely right in the race if not in 1st place and the Cubs floundering somewhere toward the bottom and we can send them a big leaguer(s) or big league ready help depending on what they need at the time, be it a back end starter, a reliever, or a backup or even trade them Byrd or Dempster mid season at a beneficial price for them.

[davell]

Callis brought up a good point about Theo's compensation. Boston DESERVES something good, but they're not going to get it. Because Lucchino let us talk to Theo without discussing comp beforehand. Oopsy.

 

They don't deserve anything really.

From the standpoint of they were stupid enough to let him go, I agree completely. From the standpoint of MacPhail's comp, I guess they should get a low level minor league filler type and a little cash. From the affect he brought to their organization, as to how valuable he was, I honestly think it's yet to be determined. Personally, I think Cherington will do just fine. If they let him. But considering they already overturned his first choice for manager, I certainly have doubts. Bottom line is Larry is kicking himself in the ass for allowing it to go down the way it did.

[JonJayCutler]

I like this trade, but I have to admit it's a bit unnerving that the only thing Rizzo has over LaHair right now from a statistical standpoint is age. Granted, LaHair has hit his ceiling and Rizzo hasn't, but I echo the sentiments of those who find it hard to trust PCL numbers.

[TruffleShuffle]

I like this trade, but I have to admit it's a bit unnerving that the only thing Rizzo has over LaHair right now from a statistical standpoint is age.

 

how is that unnerving? rizzo completely raked as the youngest position player in AAA. it would be unnerving if lahair put up a .650 ops last year, but an ops over 1.000? yeah i'll take that.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I like this trade, but I have to admit it's a bit unnerving that the only thing Rizzo has over LaHair right now from a statistical standpoint is age. Granted, LaHair has hit his ceiling and Rizzo hasn't, but I echo the sentiments of those who find it hard to trust PCL numbers.

 

That's not unnerving at all. The difference between a 21-year-old in his first look at a league and a 29-year-old in his third is absolutely huge.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Callis brought up a good point about Theo's compensation. Boston DESERVES something good, but they're not going to get it. Because Lucchino let us talk to Theo without discussing comp beforehand. Oopsy.

 

They don't deserve anything really.

 

It's not about deserving or not, it's that they must have made an agreement and Selig was somehow involved. As difficult as the process was, I doubt that it will ultimately end with us sending them junk. Either a respectable prospect or two or something that can help their big league club in the home stretch.

[MWV]

I like this trade, but I have to admit it's a bit unnerving that the only thing Rizzo has over LaHair right now from a statistical standpoint is age. Granted, LaHair has hit his ceiling and Rizzo hasn't, but I echo the sentiments of those who find it hard to trust PCL numbers.

 

His MLB AVG was depressed by an abysmal .210 BAbip, and while his K rate is troubling, he did walk in 13.7% of his MLB PAs as a 21 year old. The obvious caveat is that it is only 153 PA, but that cuts both ways.

[pitchcs]

I like this trade, but I have to admit it's a bit unnerving that the only thing Rizzo has over LaHair right now from a statistical standpoint is age. Granted, LaHair has hit his ceiling and Rizzo hasn't, but I echo the sentiments of those who find it hard to trust PCL numbers.

 

 

Well, that's pretty much the most important thing in this evaluation.