Cashner and Na traded for Rizzo and Cates

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If we did sign Cespedes and gave him LF, and assuming that Stewart or Vitters can hold down 3rd base our only real need for the next offseason would be starting pitching, and we should have enough money for 2 top shelf guys assuming they're available.

Who is playing 2B?

 

The still-underrated Darwin Barney?

[Clem Fandango]

LOVE LOVE LOVE this trade.

 

I honestly thought that, with the way some of the rumors had been presented earlier, that Rizzo would have costed us a lot more than this.

 

Really? We just gave up a high upside upper level arm. Granted, Cashner had big concerns to deal with off of injury, but that's a pretty steep price to pay in a deal these days overall, with how teams protect young pitchers with upside. You could make the case that Cashner was the highest valued asset in the deal, thus they had to toss Cates in, who I think is the clear 3rd highest valued asset in the deal, with us throwing a throw in in.

 

Whether Cashner was perceived as the key piece in this deal or not, he was an injury risk that we traded for a 21 year old who filled a gaping hole at 1B for the forseeable future. I like Cashner and I thought he could be a successful starter on the Cubs, but if I had to choose between a 25 year old injury risk pitcher who might be best utilized out of the pen vs. a 21 year old 1B who could possibly be a perennial all-star, I'll take the latter.

 

This does not even take into account the fact that if we deal Garza I would have to assume we'd be getting back at least one pitcher who trumps Cashner's value in spades.

[Little Slide Rooter]

If we did sign Cespedes and gave him LF, and assuming that Stewart or Vitters can hold down 3rd base our only real need for the next offseason would be starting pitching, and we should have enough money for 2 top shelf guys assuming they're available.

Who is playing 2B?

 

Probably Barney. Maybe DeWitt or Stewart. Lake could be an option. The mythical slugging 2nd baseman isn't easy to come by. Brandon Phillips is a potential FA, but most signs point to an extension.

[cheapseats]

There were a lot of folks that voiced concerns on his swing this year, and even in the minors, suggesting that it was long and couldn't catch up with inside fastballs. to be fair, a lot of corner sluggers have had this issue and still been capable starters.

 

Not that it has anything to do with Rizzo, but Reggie Jackson couldn't hit inside fastballs, and he freely admits it today.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If Castro takes a step forward, and we give Sappelt at chance at LF (which I think we should), we could be a *really* good defensive team in 2013.

[davell]

Garza for Turner/Smyly/Crosby, Byrd for Hood, and Soriano for Tillman is what I'm hoping for at this point, unless Toronto steps up and offers us something good for Garza.

[Clem Fandango]

If Castro takes a step forward, and we give Sappelt at chance at LF (which I think we should), we could be a *really* good defensive team in 2013.

 

WTF I don't even...

 

I can't believe the observations we're making in this thread about the Cubs. Christ I'm happy

[toonsterwu]

Garza for Turner/Smyly/Crosby, Byrd for Hood, and Soriano for Tillman is what I'm hoping for at this point, unless Toronto steps up and offers us something good for Garza.

 

If I'm going to get a Soriano deal with the Orioles, I'd rather go for a low level ticket. Tillman (who admittedly, I was never high on when he was good) has lost velocity badly. Some think it's an injury, but if its not, ouch.

 

Uh ... Destin Hood? Which Hood we talking about davell?

 

Oh, and I hope your Garza deal happens. No way could the Blue Jays top that, IMO. But I also think there's next to no chance that happens. 3 high upside arms? Can't recall any deal like that.

[waffle]

Very surprised. That is quite a bit cheaper than I would have thought, and I liked Cash.

 

People will moan regardless, but to me this is potentially a really impressive trade.

 

I don't think anyone is moaning. I sound like the most lukewarm person on the deal, and I like it.

 

Then this is a rare thing indeed. I hope it doesn't mean that we are all mistaken rather than just 1/2 of us.

[toonsterwu]

Okay, I'm going to be negative Nancy (is there a negative associated with a guy)? Anyhow, again like the deal, but reading Sickels write up right now reminded me who I thought Rizzo was - Adam LaRoche.

[Fro]

Really like this trade... fantastic move.

[Andy]

It's probably just because I just saw Moneyball last night, but this trade combined with the others is giving me a vibe like the scene where Beane trades Pena and Jeremy Giambi.

 

"You don't even know who Zach Cates is. Just throw him in."

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Okay, I'm going to be negative Nancy (is there a negative associated with a guy)? Anyhow, again like the deal, but reading Sickels write up right now reminded me who I thought Rizzo was - Adam LaRoche.

As in Rizzo reminds you of LaRoche, or you thought Rizzo was LaRoche?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Okay, I'm going to be negative Nancy (is there a negative associated with a guy)? Anyhow, again like the deal, but reading Sickels write up right now reminded me who I thought Rizzo was - Adam LaRoche.

 

LaRoche is slower and worse defensively. LaRoche with plus defense? I'll take that.

[toonsterwu]

Okay, I'm going to be negative Nancy (is there a negative associated with a guy)? Anyhow, again like the deal, but reading Sickels write up right now reminded me who I thought Rizzo was - Adam LaRoche.

As in Rizzo reminds you of LaRoche, or you thought Rizzo was LaRoche?

Write up reminds me of LaRoche.

[Rob]

It's worth noting that Rizzo is still under control for 6 years, whereas Cashner is only under control for 5. And he'd have to be in the bullpen for at least some of that to get enough innings to be stretched back out as a starter.

[toonsterwu]

Okay, I'm going to be negative Nancy (is there a negative associated with a guy)? Anyhow, again like the deal, but reading Sickels write up right now reminded me who I thought Rizzo was - Adam LaRoche.

 

LaRoche is slower and worse defensively. LaRoche with plus defense? I'll take that.

 

LaRoche has been fairly good with the glove in recent years. I know coming up, he was considered a bit choppy with the glove, but it's really been solid in recent years. Looking at UZR, his UZR numbers are dragged down by the -19.7 in his 2nd year, which looks like a major outlier.

[rawaction]

Okay, I'm going to be negative Nancy (is there a negative associated with a guy)? Anyhow, again like the deal, but reading Sickels write up right now reminded me who I thought Rizzo was - Adam LaRoche.

 

LaRoche is slower and worse defensively. LaRoche with plus defense? I'll take that.

 

Laroche was a decent player until he passed his prime. But Laroche was 2 years old than Rizzo projects to be when he becomes a full time ML. Rizzo also has superior minor league numbers. I think Laroche is the floor for Rizzo.

[Schwarber Fan]

I bet Rizzo is our opening day first baseman.

[Rob]

I bet Rizzo is our opening day first baseman.

 

I doubt it.

[Butterscup1679666578]

I bet Rizzo is our opening day first baseman.

 

How much do you want to bet?

[Guest]

Okay, I'm going to be negative Nancy (is there a negative associated with a guy)? Anyhow, again like the deal, but reading Sickels write up right now reminded me who I thought Rizzo was - Adam LaRoche.

 

Unfair, but it illustrates the point.

 

As 21 year olds:

Rizzo: .331/.404/.652/1.056 in AAA

LaRoche: .251/.305/.361/.666 in A+

[pccubfan]

Okay, I'm going to be negative Nancy (is there a negative associated with a guy)? Anyhow, again like the deal, but reading Sickels write up right now reminded me who I thought Rizzo was - Adam LaRoche.

 

LaRoche is slower and worse defensively. LaRoche with plus defense? I'll take that.

 

Laroche was a decent player until he passed his prime. But Laroche was 2 years old than Rizzo projects to be when he becomes a full time ML. Rizzo also has superior minor league numbers. I think Laroche is the floor for Rizzo.

 

If that is the case, I would think that Cashner would have to be a #2 or better, and pretty soon, for this to go the wrong way for the Cubs.

[toonsterwu]

Okay, I'm going to be negative Nancy (is there a negative associated with a guy)? Anyhow, again like the deal, but reading Sickels write up right now reminded me who I thought Rizzo was - Adam LaRoche.

 

Unfair, but it illustrates the point.

 

As 21 year olds:

Rizzo: .331/.404/.652/1.056 in AAA

LaRoche: .251/.305/.361/.666 in A+

 

Sure, don't disagree. There's higher pedigree with Rizzo, and there's higher potential. I was just pointing to what Sickels wrote on his likely prime - a .260-.280 hitter, 25-30 HR's, and plenty of walks, along with a solid glove at first. LaRoche put up those numbers from 06 to 2010 and was hurt last year.

 

Admittedly, this speaks to something else I used to talk about - that I think LaRoche was a bit under-rated. Not a star, but a very solid starting first baseman who always got left behind as teams looked for better or cheaper.

[davell]

Toonster, yeah, I meant Destin Hood for Byrd. I always liked Tillman, saw him pitch in Norfolk a few times and in Baltimore once as well(one of his only good starts probably} but if we could get a Bridwell type arm for him, I'd consider that a win for us too.