Z on the 2011 Chicago Cubs: "We stinks!"

[erik316wttn]

The only thing Z should have apologized for was calling out Marmol. You don't publicly trash a teammate. However, it's totally ok that he called out the team as a whole.

[Sammy Sofa]

I didn't suggest the Ricketts had done A, B or C.

[questionmarkgrace]

that was a misquote but what I should have said was that you claimed:

 

the Ricketts are actually laying the groundwork for improving this organization across the board.

 

I was pointing out how they were just following a road that had already been planned out.

[davearm2]

And what exactly did you hope a new owner would bring to the table in a season and a half outside of getting rid of Hendry?

 

And the Tribune was all talk. The Ricketts are actually laying the groundwork for improving this organization across the board. It's all well and good what the Tribune claimed it WANTED to do, but the Ricketts are already actually taking the steps to get these things done.

 

I think the second half of the Tribune ownership did some real things. The biggest mistakes they made was not hiring the right baseball people. But in the early 90's they went out and got a hot shot young exec in Andy MacPhail to run things and make a commitment to building through the minor league system. They also spent more and more every year on payroll, giving unprecedented resources to the team. They also laid the groundwork for the first real upgrades to Wrigley Field and got them done.

I agree. A good owner will...

 

a) hire the right people;

b) open the checkbook; and

c) stay the heck out of the way.

 

The Trib definitely did b) and c), and tried to do a). In the end, MacPhail's small-market tendencies just didn't work here.

 

Ricketts and co have yet to establish a), b), or c). But they haven't given us a reason to believe they'll fail on any of these, either.

 

Nuts&Gum suggested that they had done these things already. I was merely pointing out that they have followed the track that was already in place and have yet to really make any clear decisions about a or b. I think scouting in asia is awesome I would like to see them get in china as well. But latin america has some great talent, maybe overpriced maybe not. But as a major market team we should be signing a million plus guy in latin america every year.

Signing an overpriced player -- from latin america or anyplace else -- every year doesn't seem real smart. What I'm seeing is, the Cubs are taking those same dollars to places (most notably Asia) where the players are comparatively underpriced. Seems pretty smart to me, in a decidedly Moneyball way.

[davearm2]

I was pointing out how they were just following a road that had already been planned out.

... which would tend to support the notion that perhaps the Trib wasn't so bad after all.

[abuck1220]

don't worry guys, kaplan was on local radio today suggesting the cubs could unload zambrano and ALL of his remaining contract on the yankees and get montero in return. so that's exciting.

[Tryptamine]

don't worry guys, kaplan was on local radio today suggesting the cubs could unload zambrano and ALL of his remaining contract on the yankees and get montero in return. so that's exciting.

 

Why is it so difficult to find a writer/radio host/analyst who has even a moderate idea what they're talking about?

[TruffleShuffle]

@thekapman is just trying to run the brown guys out of town

[Sammy Sofa]

I was pointing out how they were just following a road that had already been planned out.

... which would tend to support the notion that perhaps the Trib wasn't so bad after all.

 

Nah. Most of those plans were just sale hype.

[DivineBovine]

And what exactly did you hope a new owner would bring to the table in a season and a half outside of getting rid of Hendry?

 

And the Tribune was all talk. The Ricketts are actually laying the groundwork for improving this organization across the board. It's all well and good what the Tribune claimed it WANTED to do, but the Ricketts are already actually taking the steps to get these things done.

 

I think the second half of the Tribune ownership did some real things. The biggest mistakes they made was not hiring the right baseball people. But in the early 90's they went out and got a hot shot young exec in Andy MacPhail to run things and make a commitment to building through the minor league system. They also spent more and more every year on payroll, giving unprecedented resources to the team. They also laid the groundwork for the first real upgrades to Wrigley Field and got them done.

I agree. A good owner will...

 

a) hire the right people;

b) open the checkbook; and

c) stay the heck out of the way.

 

The Trib definitely did b) and c), and tried to do a). In the end, MacPhail's small-market tendencies just didn't work here.

 

Ricketts and co have yet to establish a), b), or c). But they haven't given us a reason to believe they'll fail on any of these, either.

 

 

No way. I'll give you the Trib did C). They did not do a). And they definitely did not do b). They did b) only in the last few years prior to the sale. I don't count that. They were a corporation solely in it for the money. Period.

 

I'll hold my criticism of the Ricketts, because they were dealt a horrible hand. Only time will tell. I certainly don't expect them to do anything drastic with this losing team right now, because it would be dumb. I'm not sure what the critics really want at this point. The team sucks right now, no matter who is running things or what they do in the short term. And there are many ways to flush money and your future down the toilet if you try to do something drastic.

[kujay]

No way. I'll give you the Trib did C). They did not do a). And they definitely did not do b). They did b) only in the last few years prior to the sale. I don't count that. They were a corporation solely in it for the money. Period.

 

I'll hold my criticism of the Ricketts, because they were dealt a horrible hand. Only time will tell. I certainly don't expect them to do anything drastic with this losing team right now, because it would be dumb. I'm not sure what the critics really want at this point. The team sucks right now, no matter who is running things or what they do in the short term. And there are many ways to flush money and your future down the toilet if you try to do something drastic.

 

We can go around and around on this, but okay, fine, I'll reserve judgment on the Ricketts family assuming there is a long-term plan. But leaving Hendry at the helm is the fatal flaw.

[jersey cubs fan]

No way. I'll give you the Trib did C). They did not do a). And they definitely did not do b). They did b) only in the last few years prior to the sale. I don't count that. They were a corporation solely in it for the money. Period.

 

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. They made Ryno the highest paid player in the game in the early 90's. From the late-90's through the 2000's, when Wrigley actually started selling out on the heals of success they rose the payroll from middle of the road to top of the NL. It wasn't just prior to the sale.

[Sammy Sofa]

No way. I'll give you the Trib did C). They did not do a). And they definitely did not do b). They did b) only in the last few years prior to the sale. I don't count that. They were a corporation solely in it for the money. Period.

 

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. They made Ryno the highest paid player in the game in the early 90's. From the late-90's through the 2000's, when Wrigley actually started selling out on the heals of success they rose the payroll from middle of the road to top of the NL. It wasn't just prior to the sale.

 

They very selectively did so. By the time they started doing B "for real" the failings of A brought everything crashing down.

[davearm2]

No way. I'll give you the Trib did C). They did not do a). And they definitely did not do b). They did b) only in the last few years prior to the sale. I don't count that. They were a corporation solely in it for the money. Period.

 

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. They made Ryno the highest paid player in the game in the early 90's. From the late-90's through the 2000's, when Wrigley actually started selling out on the heals of success they rose the payroll from middle of the road to top of the NL. It wasn't just prior to the sale.

 

They very selectively did so. By the time they started doing B "for real" the failings of A brought everything crashing down.

Your issue should be with MacPhail, and his small-market mentality, not with the Trib. The Trib was making money available, MacPhail was just too cheap to spend it on a bigtime free agent. Instead he spread those dollars across 3 or 4 okay free agents. So it comes back to A).

[Sammy Sofa]

No way. I'll give you the Trib did C). They did not do a). And they definitely did not do b). They did b) only in the last few years prior to the sale. I don't count that. They were a corporation solely in it for the money. Period.

 

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. They made Ryno the highest paid player in the game in the early 90's. From the late-90's through the 2000's, when Wrigley actually started selling out on the heals of success they rose the payroll from middle of the road to top of the NL. It wasn't just prior to the sale.

 

They very selectively did so. By the time they started doing B "for real" the failings of A brought everything crashing down.

Your issue should be with MacPhail, and his small-market mentality, not with the Trib. The Trib was making money available, MacPhail was just too cheap to spend it on a bigtime free agent. Instead he spread those dollars across 3 or 4 okay free agents. So it comes back to A).

 

My issue was with both. He may not have been spending as much money as he had, but it's not like there was a ton. This might just be me getting things wrong or making things up, but I could swear the talk has been that Hendry wanted to go after both Guerrero and then Beltran in the mid-00's but both signings were effectively nixed due to money constraints.

[davearm2]

No way. I'll give you the Trib did C). They did not do a). And they definitely did not do b). They did b) only in the last few years prior to the sale. I don't count that. They were a corporation solely in it for the money. Period.

 

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. They made Ryno the highest paid player in the game in the early 90's. From the late-90's through the 2000's, when Wrigley actually started selling out on the heals of success they rose the payroll from middle of the road to top of the NL. It wasn't just prior to the sale.

 

They very selectively did so. By the time they started doing B "for real" the failings of A brought everything crashing down.

Your issue should be with MacPhail, and his small-market mentality, not with the Trib. The Trib was making money available, MacPhail was just too cheap to spend it on a bigtime free agent. Instead he spread those dollars across 3 or 4 okay free agents. So it comes back to A).

 

My issue was with both. He may not have been spending as much money as he had, but it's not like there was a ton. This might just be me getting things wrong or making things up, but I could swear the talk has been that Hendry wanted to go after both Guerrero and then Beltran in the mid-00's but both signings were effectively nixed due to money constraints.

My recollection was that MacPhail wouldn't authorize a mega contract. Same story with Tejada and later Furcal.

[jersey cubs fan]

Holy crap, did anybody else realize that the Cubs lead the league in OPS out of 3B right now? What the what? Ramirez has been terrible, yet the Cubs 3B lead the league. Castro and Barney have both been in a funk but the Cubs are still upper half production in both 2B and SS right now. Pena is weighing down the infield, as is the catcher combination. They've actually gotten a boost out of LF with Dewitt replacing Soriano. CF has taken a hit with Johnson out, as he was doing more than Byrd. This lineup is just littered top to bottom with mediocrity and impotence. Even their most effective hitter this season, Fukudome, is putting up substandard production for a RF.

[apete6]

Holy crap, did anybody else realize that the Cubs lead the league in OPS out of 3B right now? What the what? Ramirez has been terrible, yet the Cubs 3B lead the league. Castro and Barney have both been in a funk but the Cubs are still upper half production in both 2B and SS right now. Pena is weighing down the infield, as is the catcher combination. They've actually gotten a boost out of LF with Dewitt replacing Soriano. CF has taken a hit with Johnson out, as he was doing more than Byrd. This lineup is just littered top to bottom with mediocrity and impotence. Even their most effective hitter this season, Fukudome, is putting up substandard production for a RF.

 

Offense around the league has sucked the fat one. I realized this when voting for the All Star team the other day.

 

Problem is, we have had at least 3 spots in the rotation that have sucked all season and the bullpen has been extremely average. Defense and baserunning have been pretty poor as well.

[CubColtPacer]

Holy crap, did anybody else realize that the Cubs lead the league in OPS out of 3B right now? What the what? Ramirez has been terrible, yet the Cubs 3B lead the league. Castro and Barney have both been in a funk but the Cubs are still upper half production in both 2B and SS right now. Pena is weighing down the infield, as is the catcher combination. They've actually gotten a boost out of LF with Dewitt replacing Soriano. CF has taken a hit with Johnson out, as he was doing more than Byrd. This lineup is just littered top to bottom with mediocrity and impotence. Even their most effective hitter this season, Fukudome, is putting up substandard production for a RF.

 

Yeah, 3B has just been a black hole this year. The AL has a few teams doing really well at 3B but are even worse overall. Soto is costing the Cubs bigtime with his terrible play this year. Pena's play shows the Cubs could still get a major upgrade there.

 

Even as much as the offense has struggled, they are still 4th in OBP, 6th in SLG, 5th in OPS. They're 9th in RS but only 10 runs behind 5th and they've played 1-2 less games than everybody else. The offense hasn't been too bad overall. It's the rest of the team (especially the rotation) that has been terrible.

[SouthSideRyan]

Holy crap, did anybody else realize that the Cubs lead the league in OPS out of 3B right now? What the what? Ramirez has been terrible, yet the Cubs 3B lead the league. Castro and Barney have both been in a funk but the Cubs are still upper half production in both 2B and SS right now. Pena is weighing down the infield, as is the catcher combination. They've actually gotten a boost out of LF with Dewitt replacing Soriano. CF has taken a hit with Johnson out, as he was doing more than Byrd. This lineup is just littered top to bottom with mediocrity and impotence.

 

I have no idea how that last sentence follows the previous ones.

[soapy]

Holy crap, did anybody else realize that the Cubs lead the league in OPS out of 3B right now? What the what? Ramirez has been terrible, yet the Cubs 3B lead the league. Castro and Barney have both been in a funk but the Cubs are still upper half production in both 2B and SS right now. Pena is weighing down the infield, as is the catcher combination. They've actually gotten a boost out of LF with Dewitt replacing Soriano. CF has taken a hit with Johnson out, as he was doing more than Byrd. This lineup is just littered top to bottom with mediocrity and impotence.

 

I have no idea how that last sentence follows the previous ones.

 

Well, not sure about impotence, but I think mediocrity is certainly an apt adjective to use. The Cubs don't have anyone really playing at an elite-type level, but don't really have any glaring holes at a particular position other than 1B and C (CF now with the injuries). Both spots where you don't really have other options and where you expect significantly more from the players currently in those positions. Of course, those are the only two guys besides Fukudome who can take a walk.

 

The stars are just perfectly aligned for the Cubs to acquire Pujols this off-season. 1B is a huge problem and the Cubs have the money necessary to make it happen. I just wish I was as confident as many here that it might actually happen.

[jersey cubs fan]

Holy crap, did anybody else realize that the Cubs lead the league in OPS out of 3B right now? What the what? Ramirez has been terrible, yet the Cubs 3B lead the league. Castro and Barney have both been in a funk but the Cubs are still upper half production in both 2B and SS right now. Pena is weighing down the infield, as is the catcher combination. They've actually gotten a boost out of LF with Dewitt replacing Soriano. CF has taken a hit with Johnson out, as he was doing more than Byrd. This lineup is just littered top to bottom with mediocrity and impotence.

 

I have no idea how that last sentence follows the previous ones.

 

What's the confusion?

 

They don't have a standout hitter anywhere. Where they are doing best in relation to the league, they are still getting weak production. Their best active hitter this year is probably Fukudome, and he's got a sub .400 SLG and they rank pretty low in relation to NL RF.

[jersey cubs fan]

Well, not sure about impotence, but I think mediocrity is certainly an apt adjective to use.

 

I used impotence as it pertains to the complete lack of power by some of the guys who are actually doing reasonably well.

[soapy]

Well, not sure about impotence, but I think mediocrity is certainly an apt adjective to use.

 

I used impotence as it pertains to the complete lack of power by some of the guys who are actually doing reasonably well.

 

Yeah, I think that's probably fair re: power and the same could probably be said about walks. Last night was just the latest glaring example of their complete inability to take a walk.

 

I didn't realize how terrible 3B numbers have been across the league though. That's almost staggering.

[jersey cubs fan]

I didn't realize how terrible 3B numbers have been across the league though. That's almost staggering.

 

Yeah, on the surface I was thinking Ramirez, Pena and Soto have been the most disappointing this season, and the biggest drag on the offense. At least in terms of in comparison to his fellow NL 3B, Ramirez is holding his own. In comparison to other middle of the order hitters though, he's below average.