Z on the 2011 Chicago Cubs: "We stinks!"

[jersey cubs fan]

I think what it all adds up to is that my Friday night is probably going to suck, but I have an outside shot at witnessing history. And it's always fun to be in attendance when Zambrano plays.

[davearm2]

Yeah, 3B has just been a black hole this year. The AL has a few teams doing really well at 3B but are even worse overall. Soto is costing the Cubs bigtime with his terrible play this year. Pena's play shows the Cubs could still get a major upgrade there.

I'm often pretty puzzled by the amount of slack Soto gets around here. Many folks still view him as a cornerstone type player, and well above average at his position. He's certainly been that at times, but he's also sucked rather mightily for long stretches too.

[Sammy Sofa]

Is he really getting all that much "slack" recently? I don't recall seeing much outside of people bemoaning Hill having had to play instead of him; outside of that nobody seems to be much talking about him at all. Even Soto as bad as he is now has the decent chance to be much, much better than Hill could ever hope to be. What are you talking about besides that?

[soapy]

There are probaly a few reasons why Soto gets "slack" (if that's even the case):

 

1. There are absolutely no in-house options that have a good chance to be better than him, even when he's stuggling mightily by his standards.

2. Even with his struggles this year, he's still been very productive for a catcher for the large majority of his time in the majors. There are plenty of reasons to believe he'll produce far better than he has so far in 2011 going forward.

[Tryptamine]

Yeah, 3B has just been a black hole this year. The AL has a few teams doing really well at 3B but are even worse overall. Soto is costing the Cubs bigtime with his terrible play this year. Pena's play shows the Cubs could still get a major upgrade there.

I'm often pretty puzzled by the amount of slack Soto gets around here. Many folks still view him as a cornerstone type player, and well above average at his position. He's certainly been that at times, but he's also sucked rather mightily for long stretches too.

 

Soto had the highest OPS of all starting catchers last year. I think I can look past a bad first third of the season.

[davearm2]

Yeah, 3B has just been a black hole this year. The AL has a few teams doing really well at 3B but are even worse overall. Soto is costing the Cubs bigtime with his terrible play this year. Pena's play shows the Cubs could still get a major upgrade there.

I'm often pretty puzzled by the amount of slack Soto gets around here. Many folks still view him as a cornerstone type player, and well above average at his position. He's certainly been that at times, but he's also sucked rather mightily for long stretches too.

 

Soto had the highest OPS of all starting catchers last year. I think I can look past a bad first third of the season.

And a lousy 2009 too, apparently.

[davearm2]

Is he really getting all that much "slack" recently? I don't recall seeing much outside of people bemoaning Hill having had to play instead of him; outside of that nobody seems to be much talking about him at all. Even Soto as bad as he is now has the decent chance to be much, much better than Hill could ever hope to be. What are you talking about besides that?

Well ever since the focus has turned toward the future beyond 2011, Soto and Castro seem to make everyone's list of "players to build around" or "good young players" or what have you. That's the slack I'm referring to.

[Guest]

Is he really getting all that much "slack" recently? I don't recall seeing much outside of people bemoaning Hill having had to play instead of him; outside of that nobody seems to be much talking about him at all. Even Soto as bad as he is now has the decent chance to be much, much better than Hill could ever hope to be. What are you talking about besides that?

Well ever since the focus has turned toward the future beyond 2011, Soto and Castro seem to make everyone's list of "players to build around" or "good young players" or what have you. That's the slack I'm referring to.

He's a 4th year player who finished in the top 3-5 players at his postion offensively two out of his first three years in the majors. He deserves some slack

[SouthSideRyan]

Jersey, I've got the Cubs at 3rd in the NL at 3B according to fangraphs.

[Men in Blue]

Geo is not exactly the type of guy who strikes me as a fitness nut. As he gets bigger and he is unable to stay off the DL, he will be of no use in a few years.

[nolanwood]

Geo is not exactly the type of guy who strikes me as a fitness nut. As he gets bigger and he is unable to stay off the DL, he will be of no use in a few years.

 

Why would he get bigger? He came to camp both this year and last year having shed a few lbs.

[Men in Blue]

Geo is not exactly the type of guy who strikes me as a fitness nut. As he gets bigger and he is unable to stay off the DL, he will be of no use in a few years.

 

Why would he get bigger? He came to camp both this year and last year having shed a few lbs.

 

Guys like Geo usually do. I like Geo but he is not close to an untouchable player.

[jersey cubs fan]

Jersey, I've got the Cubs at 3rd in the NL at 3B according to fangraphs.

 

I was just going strictly off team OPS on the ESPN site.

[Men in Blue]

But next to Hill, he is Johnny Bench. Edited June 8, 2011 by Men in Blue

[soapy]

Yeah, 3B has just been a black hole this year. The AL has a few teams doing really well at 3B but are even worse overall. Soto is costing the Cubs bigtime with his terrible play this year. Pena's play shows the Cubs could still get a major upgrade there.

I'm often pretty puzzled by the amount of slack Soto gets around here. Many folks still view him as a cornerstone type player, and well above average at his position. He's certainly been that at times, but he's also sucked rather mightily for long stretches too.

 

Soto had the highest OPS of all starting catchers last year. I think I can look past a bad first third of the season.

And a lousy 2009 too, apparently.

And you can look past his fantastic 2008, apparently.

[jersey cubs fan]

Is he really getting all that much "slack" recently? I don't recall seeing much outside of people bemoaning Hill having had to play instead of him; outside of that nobody seems to be much talking about him at all. Even Soto as bad as he is now has the decent chance to be much, much better than Hill could ever hope to be. What are you talking about besides that?

Well ever since the focus has turned toward the future beyond 2011, Soto and Castro seem to make everyone's list of "players to build around" or "good young players" or what have you. That's the slack I'm referring to.

He's a 4th year player who finished in the top 3-5 players at his postion offensively two out of his first three years in the majors. He deserves some slack

 

I don't see how it's giving slack to consider Geo one of the few pieces that can help in the future. He's still under team control, still 28 and still quite a good catcher over the course of his career. He's been bad this year, and he's missed time. Doesn't mean he holds no value going forward. Castro has also kind of sucked for a month, doesn't mean his future value takes a hit. Granted, he's got a lot more upside with more age on his side, and therefore more value going forward. But Geo isn't getting slack just because people still have hope for him.

[davearm2]

Yeah, 3B has just been a black hole this year. The AL has a few teams doing really well at 3B but are even worse overall. Soto is costing the Cubs bigtime with his terrible play this year. Pena's play shows the Cubs could still get a major upgrade there.

I'm often pretty puzzled by the amount of slack Soto gets around here. Many folks still view him as a cornerstone type player, and well above average at his position. He's certainly been that at times, but he's also sucked rather mightily for long stretches too.

 

Soto had the highest OPS of all starting catchers last year. I think I can look past a bad first third of the season.

And a lousy 2009 too, apparently.

And you can look past his fantastic 2008, apparently.

Not at all.

 

I see two great years, and two lousy years (albeit this year is still only 1/3 done), and then wonder why folks seemingly expect (or even assume) more great instead of more lousy in the future. I see the guy as a huge questionmark going forward. Not many else seem to: the general perception seems to be that the Cubs are set at Catcher.

[Sammy Sofa]

I see two great years, and two lousy years (albeit this year is still only 1/3 done), and then wonder why folks seemingly expect (or even assume) more great instead of more lousy in the future. I see the guy as a huge questionmark going forward. Not many else seem to: the general perception seems to be that the Cubs are set at Catcher.

 

He was still very useful in 2009. Not ideal compared to what he did the year before and in 2010, but he was pretty middle of the pack for catchers that played roughly as much as he did. Between that and 2008 and 2010 it's a pretty safe bet to look at the Cubs as being "set" at catcher for the foreseeable future barring him being knocked out by serious injury.

[nolanwood]

Geo is not exactly the type of guy who strikes me as a fitness nut. As he gets bigger and he is unable to stay off the DL, he will be of no use in a few years.

 

Why would he get bigger? He came to camp both this year and last year having shed a few lbs.

 

Guys like Geo usually do. I like Geo but he is not close to an untouchable player.

 

Who said anything about him being an untouchable player? Your comment was that he will get bigger and be unable to stay off the DL.

 

Your answer to the reason why he would get bigger is because "guys like Geo usually do"? :-k

[davell]

I want Geo next year as our catcher. And the year after that. At that point(his FA year) he can be traded or we can let him walk. I don't want him on a long term deal. Hopefully, at that point, either Castillo or Gibbs is ready to be a fulltime major league catcher.

[Guest]

Can Geo be a valuable part of the next contending Cubs team? Yes. Will he be overpaid or prohibitively expensive? No. Do we have someone who already who can provide similar value, or even decent value for the position? No. Is Geo likely to have more trade value than actual value due to an abysmal start this year? No. Does it make a whole lot of sense to explore trading Soto away? No.