By all means Mr. Rosenthal, lets give Hendry an extension.

[CubColtPacer]

When the Cubs are reportedly considering ppl like Ned Coletti....Billy Beane seems like a great choice.

 

Well, that is obvious (although before anybody goes nuts there was never anything saying that the Cubs would ever consider Coletti). Are there examples of small market GM's succeeding in big markets? I admit I don't know enough to know for sure on this subject. I just remember MacPhail refusing to go out into free agency and spend and wonder if that will be the same for other GM's-especially when they are accustomed to filling holes by using other means.

[jersey cubs fan]

I just remember MacPhail refusing to go out into free agency and spend

 

Well then you just aren't remembering accurately. He did a lot of things wrong, like hiring Lynch and Hendry and allowing Baker to come here. But he did spend and allow spending, he just got weird about it at times.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I just remember MacPhail refusing to go out into free agency and spend

 

Well then you just aren't remembering accurately. He did a lot of things wrong, like hiring Lynch and Hendry and allowing Baker to come here. But he did spend and allow spending, he just got weird about it at times.

 

I remember he was willing to offer a rather ungodly deal to Mike Hampton and how annoyed the Tribune Cubs message boards were that Colorado overbid.

[CubColtPacer]

I just remember MacPhail refusing to go out into free agency and spend

 

Well then you just aren't remembering accurately. He did a lot of things wrong, like hiring Lynch and Hendry and allowing Baker to come here. But he did spend and allow spending, he just got weird about it at times.

 

What major free agents did the Cubs acquire during his entire time with the Cubs? Was Alou the biggest one? MacPhail did allow spending but he wasn't willing to spend on any one player. It was a widely played story that one of the biggest reasons why the Cubs were suddenly landing free agents in the 2006-2007 offseason was because MacPhail was gone. It could be that all those reports are wrong (and I think they are probably slightly overplayed), but they are out there.

[jersey cubs fan]

I just remember MacPhail refusing to go out into free agency and spend

 

Well then you just aren't remembering accurately. He did a lot of things wrong, like hiring Lynch and Hendry and allowing Baker to come here. But he did spend and allow spending, he just got weird about it at times.

 

I remember he was willing to offer a rather ungodly deal to Mike Hampton and how annoyed the Tribune Cubs message boards were that Colorado overbid.

 

They gave Sosa what was the standard superstar player contract, they plucked other team's too expensive players and expanded payroll substantially as soon as the results began to show up. The whole plan was to draft and develop pitchers and go out and pay for bats. The problem at the time was the organization was completely ignorant of the inefficiences of the "be aggressive" mentality at the plate and the run production was consistently held down by a lack of walks. They didn't seem to put much thought into the inevitable decline of 35 year old position players. They were done in by the complete lack of any homegrown bats, because they had to spend to fill holes that should be filled by your minimum wage earning prospects.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I just remember MacPhail refusing to go out into free agency and spend

 

Well then you just aren't remembering accurately. He did a lot of things wrong, like hiring Lynch and Hendry and allowing Baker to come here. But he did spend and allow spending, he just got weird about it at times.

 

What major free agents did the Cubs acquire during his entire time with the Cubs? Was Alou the biggest one? MacPhail did allow spending but he wasn't willing to spend on any one player. It was a widely played story that one of the biggest reasons why the Cubs were suddenly landing free agents in the 2006-2007 offseason was because MacPhail was gone. It could be that all those reports are wrong (and I think they are probably slightly overplayed), but they are out there.

 

I recall the Cubs "finishing" second in the bidding for a lot of major free agents. They were willing to spend big money, just not obscene money that it usually takes to land one of those guys.

[jersey cubs fan]

I just remember MacPhail refusing to go out into free agency and spend

 

Well then you just aren't remembering accurately. He did a lot of things wrong, like hiring Lynch and Hendry and allowing Baker to come here. But he did spend and allow spending, he just got weird about it at times.

 

What major free agents did the Cubs acquire during his entire time with the Cubs? Was Alou the biggest one? MacPhail did allow spending but he wasn't willing to spend on any one player. It was a widely played story that one of the biggest reasons why the Cubs were suddenly landing free agents in the 2006-2007 offseason was because MacPhail was gone. It could be that all those reports are wrong (and I think they are probably slightly overplayed), but they are out there.

 

He went hard after Hampton. Then after the fact probably felt it was a bad idea and got gunshy. They really couldn't go after the one big guy because they had no small wage earners of their own that could offset the higher cost of stars. They had to pay for every hit. It was a wildly inefficient model.

[jersey cubs fan]

I just remember MacPhail refusing to go out into free agency and spend

 

Well then you just aren't remembering accurately. He did a lot of things wrong, like hiring Lynch and Hendry and allowing Baker to come here. But he did spend and allow spending, he just got weird about it at times.

 

What major free agents did the Cubs acquire during his entire time with the Cubs? Was Alou the biggest one? MacPhail did allow spending but he wasn't willing to spend on any one player. It was a widely played story that one of the biggest reasons why the Cubs were suddenly landing free agents in the 2006-2007 offseason was because MacPhail was gone. It could be that all those reports are wrong (and I think they are probably slightly overplayed), but they are out there.

 

I recall the Cubs "finishing" second in the bidding for a lot of major free agents. They were willing to spend big money, just not obscene money that it usually takes to land one of those guys.

 

That and they did have one of their own "those guys" in Sosa.

[Sammy Sofa]

I just remember MacPhail refusing to go out into free agency and spend

 

Well then you just aren't remembering accurately. He did a lot of things wrong, like hiring Lynch and Hendry and allowing Baker to come here. But he did spend and allow spending, he just got weird about it at times.

 

What major free agents did the Cubs acquire during his entire time with the Cubs? Was Alou the biggest one? MacPhail did allow spending but he wasn't willing to spend on any one player. It was a widely played story that one of the biggest reasons why the Cubs were suddenly landing free agents in the 2006-2007 offseason was because MacPhail was gone. It could be that all those reports are wrong (and I think they are probably slightly overplayed), but they are out there.

 

I recall the Cubs "finishing" second in the bidding for a lot of major free agents. They were willing to spend big money, just not obscene money that it usually takes to land one of those guys.

 

That and they did have one of their own "those guys" in Sosa.

 

Right, but then what about Vlad and Beltran immediately post-Sosa? I had always heard that the Cubs' efforts to sign them when they were up for deals in the mid 00's were nixed because of what effectively amounted to self-imposed salary caps.

[Guest]

Right, but then what about Vlad and Beltran immediately post-Sosa? I had always heard that the Cubs' efforts to sign them when they were up for deals in the mid 00's were nixed because of what effectively amounted to self-imposed salary caps.

I'm not sure about Beltran, but when Vlad was a free agent the Cubs didn't sign him because they already had Alou and Sosa on the corners. I desperately wanted the Cubs to trade Alou to make room for Vlad, but the Cubs weren't that creative.

[Sammy Sofa]

Right, but then what about Vlad and Beltran immediately post-Sosa? I had always heard that the Cubs' efforts to sign them when they were up for deals in the mid 00's were nixed because of what effectively amounted to self-imposed salary caps.

I'm not sure about Beltran, but when Vlad was a free agent the Cubs didn't sign him because they already had Alou and Sosa on the corners. I desperately wanted the Cubs to trade Alou to make room for Vlad, but the Cubs weren't that creative.

 

Ah, that's right; I thought he was a FA after '04, not '03. For some reason I remember a lot of Cubs talk regarding him, though.

[davearm2]

The history under MacPhail was a strong willingness to pay top $$$ to retain existing superstars (Sosa, Wood, Ramirez, DLee), but an unwillingness to pay top $$$ to lure in free agent superstars (Vlad, Beltran, Tejada, Furcal). They consistently submitted 2nd- or 3rd-best offers on these guys.

 

IIRC, CCP is correct that 3/$27 for (then-34) Alou was the largest free agent contract the team gave out under MacPhail.

[Outshined_One]

The history under MacPhail was a strong willingness to pay top $$$ to retain existing superstars (Sosa, Wood, Ramirez, DLee), but an unwillingness to pay top $$$ to lure in free agent superstars (Vlad, Beltran, Tejada, Furcal). They consistently submitted 2nd- or 3rd-best offers on these guys.

 

IIRC, CCP is correct that 3/$27 for (then-34) Alou was the largest free agent contract the team gave out under MacPhail.

 

Agreed. Under MacPhail, the Cubs had a history of spending to keep their own, but they shied away from bringing in top name stars.

[davell]

Friedman is the guy that's probably got the most hype around him right now and if we got him, I'd be ecstatic. Same with Beane(although I'm not sold that he really did anthing more than land 4 stud pitchers at the same time and rode them as long as he could). I'd barf if we wind up with Colletti.

 

 

That said, the guy I want is Cashman. He's a proponent of building from within, has a fiscal sense(Didn't want Soriano last year) and has operated(obviously) with a large budget. I think I'd prefer him to Friedman or Beane simply because he's already demonstrated success using a large payroll. I'm just not sure how they'd run a team using different philosophies than they'd used previously.

[jersey cubs fan]

The notion that cashman is a better option because he has experience with a large budget and beans might not know how to use a large budget is baffling.

[erik316wttn]

The Yankees have so much money that bad signings are easily absorbed. The Cubs don't have seemingly endless funds like the Yankees do, so no to Cashman please.

[davell]

The notion that cashman is a better option because he has experience with a large budget and beans might not know how to use a large budget is baffling.

 

I don't think it's baffling at all. Cashman has shown responsibility at times, likes to use money for his farm system, and has had success in a large market environment. Beane(who I would still be extremely happy with) comes with more red flags, if you ask me. I'm not sold that he's been all that great without having the rotation guys he had once upon a time. I have no doubt he's an upgrade from Hendry, same with Friedman.

[Guest]

I wonder how much of Oakland's success back in the day was Beane and how much was the rest of the team Sandy Alderson put into place - Grady Fuson, JP Ricciardi, etc. Beane hasn't done much since those guys left.

[dew1679666265]

That said, the guy I want is Cashman. He's a proponent of building from within, has a fiscal sense(Didn't want Soriano last year) and has operated(obviously) with a large budget. I think I'd prefer him to Friedman or Beane simply because he's already demonstrated success using a large payroll. I'm just not sure how they'd run a team using different philosophies than they'd used previously.

 

My concern with Cashman is that because of the huge amounts of money he's been able to play with, we haven't really seen a "type" of player he likes. We don't know what his philosophy is on what makes a player good, basically. With the Yankees, he's simply able to (and more often than not, I'd guess, instructed to by the Steinbrenners) simply outbid everybody for the stars who are good at everything (Sabathia, ARod, Jeter, etc).

 

Should he come to Chicago and he has a big payroll but not unlimited, what type of player does he target and look to develop? Is he an OBP/more progessive stats guy or is he more of a traditionalist?

[XZero771679666304]

That said, the guy I want is Cashman. He's a proponent of building from within, has a fiscal sense(Didn't want Soriano last year) and has operated(obviously) with a large budget. I think I'd prefer him to Friedman or Beane simply because he's already demonstrated success using a large payroll. I'm just not sure how they'd run a team using different philosophies than they'd used previously.

 

My concern with Cashman is that because of the huge amounts of money he's been able to play with, we haven't really seen a "type" of player he likes. We don't know what his philosophy is on what makes a player good, basically. With the Yankees, he's simply able to (and more often than not, I'd guess, instructed to by the Steinbrenners) simply outbid everybody for the stars who are good at everything (Sabathia, ARod, Jeter, etc).

 

Should he come to Chicago and he has a big payroll but not unlimited, what type of player does he target and look to develop? Is he an OBP/more progessive stats guy or is he more of a traditionalist?

 

Yeah, it's hard to properly gauge Brian Cashman given the degree to which his strings were being pulled by the Steinbrenners.

[jersey cubs fan]

I wonder how much of Oakland's success back in the day was Beane and how much was the rest of the team Sandy Alderson put into place - Grady Fuson, JP Ricciardi, etc. Beane hasn't done much since those guys left.

Tim trying harder than ever to support nonsensical pro hendry stance

[Guest]

I wonder how much of Oakland's success back in the day was Beane and how much was the rest of the team Sandy Alderson put into place - Grady Fuson, JP Ricciardi, etc. Beane hasn't done much since those guys left.

Tim trying harder than ever to support nonsensical pro hendry stance

That's far more pro-Alderson than pro-Hendry. Really has nothing to do with Jim.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

That said, the guy I want is Cashman. He's a proponent of building from within, has a fiscal sense(Didn't want Soriano last year) and has operated(obviously) with a large budget. I think I'd prefer him to Friedman or Beane simply because he's already demonstrated success using a large payroll. I'm just not sure how they'd run a team using different philosophies than they'd used previously.

 

My concern with Cashman is that because of the huge amounts of money he's been able to play with, we haven't really seen a "type" of player he likes. We don't know what his philosophy is on what makes a player good, basically. With the Yankees, he's simply able to (and more often than not, I'd guess, instructed to by the Steinbrenners) simply outbid everybody for the stars who are good at everything (Sabathia, ARod, Jeter, etc).

 

Should he come to Chicago and he has a big payroll but not unlimited, what type of player does he target and look to develop? Is he an OBP/more progessive stats guy or is he more of a traditionalist?

 

The Yankees were looking at stats before it was cool, and Cashman was a part of that. Like most GMs I think he looks for a big bat 1B, a C, a SS, and CF, an then hopes to fill in the rest the best he can. It just so happens that at his current job the "best he can" for 3B is the guy who could have retired as arguably the greatest SS of all time. It wouldn't be like that here, but I think he knows exactly what kinds of players he wants. Guys who get on base, play D, stay on the field, and can hit with above average power.

 

This is the guy I want the Cubs to go after. He's a FA GM this offseason. I'd take him over the probably overrated (at this point) Beane, and I don't think the Cubs have the balls to give DePodesta another shot at running/building a team.

 

After Cashman I'd look at Cherington from Boston.

[Brett]

Friedman is the guy that's probably got the most hype around him right now and if we got him, I'd be ecstatic. Same with Beane(although I'm not sold that he really did anthing more than land 4 stud pitchers at the same time and rode them as long as he could). I'd barf if we wind up with Colletti.

 

 

That said, the guy I want is Cashman. He's a proponent of building from within, has a fiscal sense(Didn't want Soriano last year) and has operated(obviously) with a large budget. I think I'd prefer him to Friedman or Beane simply because he's already demonstrated success using a large payroll. I'm just not sure how they'd run a team using different philosophies than they'd used previously.

 

Agreed on all fronts. I have a feeling that the Cubs will give Cashman a long look after this season. The question is whether they'll formally dump Hendry before doing so.

[jersey cubs fan]

I wonder how much of Oakland's success back in the day was Beane and how much was the rest of the team Sandy Alderson put into place - Grady Fuson, JP Ricciardi, etc. Beane hasn't done much since those guys left.

Tim trying harder than ever to support nonsensical pro hendry stance

That's far more pro-Alderson than pro-Hendry. Really has nothing to do with Jim.

 

Billy Beane has been GM of that team since October 1997. Starting in 2000 they won 90+ games in six of seven seasons, with a payroll that paled in comparison to the normal contenders. And that payroll has not grown in the years since. But you question whether Billy Beane deserves accolades for the job he did while supporting the notion that the Cubs should hang on to Jim Hendry because things could somehow get worse with a different GM.