Fire Lou Piniella

[Keener98]

I hate Hill too but it doesn't irritate me nearly as much as Colvin not playing, or bringing in Marmol to have him issue an IBB. I feel like you guys overrate Soto a lot.

 

We overrate Soto a lot, but yet you think Colvin should play more? Colvin is competing against 4 other people for 3 spots in the OF, all of whom have had a better career than Colvin has. Soriano and Byrd for the most part have been damn good this year, and Fuku started out really well, and still is the best option to leadoff we have on this team.

 

What has Koyie Hill done in his career to justify playing more than Soto? Soto is younger, and has had a much better career offensively than Hill. Also, no matter what Lou or the other idiots in the media would like you to believe, the defensive difference between the 2 isn't much.

 

The only person being overrated on this team is Tyler Colvin

 

If only offense was the only thing that mattered as a catcher.

 

If only reading comprehension was a skill everyone had.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Let's play nice, boys and girls.

[17 Seconds]

I hate Hill too but it doesn't irritate me nearly as much as Colvin not playing, or bringing in Marmol to have him issue an IBB. I feel like you guys overrate Soto a lot.

 

if soto was qualified (and the only reasons he isn't are the walks and Lou Piniella), he'd have the second best OPS from a catcher in all of baseball, and only .01 behind Victor Martinez for number 1 (soto is at .860, martinez is at .861)

 

when you take into account that OPS doesn't way OBP as heavily as it should, soto has basically been the best hitting catcher in baseball this year.

 

but yeah let's bench an elite hitting catcher at age 27 so we can play a terrible player. that's reasonable.

[17 Seconds]

I hate Hill too but it doesn't irritate me nearly as much as Colvin not playing, or bringing in Marmol to have him issue an IBB. I feel like you guys overrate Soto a lot.

 

We overrate Soto a lot, but yet you think Colvin should play more? Colvin is competing against 4 other people for 3 spots in the OF, all of whom have had a better career than Colvin has. Soriano and Byrd for the most part have been damn good this year, and Fuku started out really well, and still is the best option to leadoff we have on this team.

 

What has Koyie Hill done in his career to justify playing more than Soto? Soto is younger, and has had a much better career offensively than Hill. Also, no matter what Lou or the other idiots in the media would like you to believe, the defensive difference between the 2 isn't much.

 

The only person being overrated on this team is Tyler Colvin

 

If only offense was the only thing that mattered as a catcher.

 

so you think the difference in defense between the 2 makes up for the difference of OVER 300 POINTS in ops?

 

that must be some pretty spectacular defense

 

serious, we're talking about a .554 OPS to an .861 OPS. there is really no argument whatsoever to be had about who is the better player.

[Soul]

I don't know, I kind of feel like there aren't really great ways to measure the effectiveness of all the other things a catcher is supposed to do. Maybe I'm wrong. Our offense still sucks with Soto in the lineup (though that's hardly his fault).

[Guest]

I don't know, I kind of feel like there aren't really great ways to measure the effectiveness of all the other things a catcher is supposed to do. Maybe I'm wrong. Our offense still sucks with Soto in the lineup (though that's hardly his fault).

 

There's a massive difference in the two players' offense. Are you saying Hill is better at these other things a catcher is supposed to do to the tune of a .300 difference in OPS?

 

And quite frankly, Soto's defense isn't that much worse than Hill's.

[Soul]

I don't know, I kind of feel like there aren't really great ways to measure the effectiveness of all the other things a catcher is supposed to do. Maybe I'm wrong. Our offense still sucks with Soto in the lineup (though that's hardly his fault).

 

There's a massive difference in the two players' offense. Are you saying Hill is better at these other things a catcher is supposed to do to the tune of a .300 difference in OPS?

 

And quite frankly, Soto's defense isn't that much worse than Hill's.

I'm saying I don't know, and I don't think anyone else does either.

[17 Seconds]

I don't know, I kind of feel like there aren't really great ways to measure the effectiveness of all the other things a catcher is supposed to do. Maybe I'm wrong. Our offense still sucks with Soto in the lineup (though that's hardly his fault).

 

There's a massive difference in the two players' offense. Are you saying Hill is better at these other things a catcher is supposed to do to the tune of a .300 difference in OPS?

 

And quite frankly, Soto's defense isn't that much worse than Hill's.

I'm saying I don't know, and I don't think anyone else does either.

 

really?

 

Our offense still sucks with Soto in the lineup (though that's hardly his fault).

 

this sounds like lou's argument, which is just ridiculous. "our offense sucks anyways, so we might as well go with defense".

 

if your offense sucks, the last thing you'd want to do is get rid of one of the only guys who actually does hit. if the rest of your offense blows, that makes soto's bat even more valuable, not less.

[CubColtPacer]

I don't know, I kind of feel like there aren't really great ways to measure the effectiveness of all the other things a catcher is supposed to do. Maybe I'm wrong. Our offense still sucks with Soto in the lineup (though that's hardly his fault).

 

There's a massive difference in the two players' offense. Are you saying Hill is better at these other things a catcher is supposed to do to the tune of a .300 difference in OPS?

 

And quite frankly, Soto's defense isn't that much worse than Hill's.

I'm saying I don't know, and I don't think anyone else does either.

 

Maybe so, but think about this. The only reason people thought Soto had a chance at the majors was because he played excellent defense at catcher. The scouts repeated it over and over again and so did the pitchers he worked with. It's the reason people were clamoring for him to become the backup catcher after 2006 even though he only had a .739 OPS at Iowa and in very limited time in the majors a .471 OPS. Since then, Soto has lost weight (and then gained some, and then lost some more) which should only help his defensive abilities.

 

So this isn't a case of trying to analyze if a good defense catcher can do enough to outweigh the bat of a poor defensive catcher (Blanco/Barrett is a recent example of that). These are likely two strong defensive catchers. I have no idea which one is better defensively so the bat has to be a tiebreaker, and the massive advantage Soto enjoys is a pretty big tiebreaker.

[Tracer Bullet]

where did Soto get the reputation for being a defensive liability? Wasn't it just last year that the pitchers were saying how much they liked him as catcher and how he knows just the right thing to say to get the pitcher back into it (whether it's an ass chewing, a word of encouragement, or a joke about a fan in the 1st row)? I don't remember Soto being in Barrett/Doumit territory ever. Even if Hill is better, Soto would have to be a brick wall for Hill's defense to make up the difference in offense.

[abuck1220]

i don't think anyone has ever said he's a defensive liability. i think morons assume he must be bad defensively since he's good offensively. every team has an "offensive catcher" and a "defensive catcher," therefore soto is the offensive one and hill is the defensive one (even though hill isn't anything special defensively...way to chicken out and not turn the game-ending DP last night, "defensive catcher").

[Derwood]

I have no idea who all of you "START COLVIN !!!11!" people want to see benched

[jersey cubs fan]

I have no idea who all of you "START COLVIN !!!11!" people want to see benched

 

fukudome

[J.R.]

I have no idea who all of you "START COLVIN !!!11!" people want to see benched

 

I never want to see Nady in RF over Colvin again. Poor routes, shredded arm - he's a butcher.

[Guest]

I have no idea who all of you "START COLVIN !!!11!" people want to see benched

 

I never want to see Nady in RF over Colvin again. Poor routes, shredded arm - he's a butcher.

 

On a platoon basis I'll take the chance with Nady's defense out of the certainty of an 0/4, 2 K's from Colvin against a LH starter.

[Sammy Sofa]

I have no idea who all of you "START COLVIN !!!11!" people want to see benched

 

I never want to see Nady in RF over Colvin again. Poor routes, shredded arm - he's a butcher.

 

On a platoon basis I'll take the chance with Nady's defense out of the certainty of an 0/4, 2 K's from Colvin against a LH starter.

 

No kidding. I have no idea why anyone would want Colvin starting against lefties over Nady.

[SouthSideRyan]

i don't think anyone has ever said he's a defensive liability. i think morons assume he must be bad defensively since he's good offensively. every team has an "offensive catcher" and a "defensive catcher," therefore soto is the offensive one and hill is the defensive one (even though hill isn't anything special defensively...way to chicken out and not turn the game-ending DP last night, "defensive catcher").

 

Bingo. If you can't hit at catcher or shortstop, you're a defensive whiz. And the worse you hit the better you defend.

[UK1679666180]

I have no idea who all of you "START COLVIN !!!11!" people want to see benched

 

At this point, I'll all for backing up the truck and Fukudome has a market, I think it should be worth exploring.

 

This team's window closed after '08 and it's time to look forward. Castro, Soto, Cashner, Marmol, etc. should be the younger core that the team builds around. If this team isn't going anywhere (which it isn't), then they need to see whether or not Colvin can become anything other than a 4th OF'er and see what they can get for Fukudome. Of the Cubs higher priced players, he might be one of few who has some trade value.

[Guest]

I have no idea who all of you "START COLVIN !!!11!" people want to see benched

 

At this point, I'll all for backing up the truck and Fukudome has a market, I think it should be worth exploring.

 

This team's window closed after '08 and it's time to look forward. Castro, Soto, Cashner, Marmol, etc. should be the younger core that the team builds around. If this team isn't going anywhere (which it isn't), then they need to see whether or not Colvin can become anything other than a 4th OF'er and see what they can get for Fukudome. Of the Cubs higher priced players, he might be one of few who has some trade value.

Amen

 

The NTCs are going to hurt the rate of return and I don't see them moving Soriano no matter what. He's got so much negative value teams would have a hard time taking him and paying the minimum. They surely won't give anything of value.

[Keener98]

Do you people clamoring for Tyler Colvin understand hes striking out 1 in every 3 times at bat? Project that over a course of a season, and then tell me you think Colvin has been treated unfairly and should play more.

 

Im not saying K's are that bad, but when hes not a walk machine or a power machine like Dunn, 1 out of every 3 times at bat is not good.

[Sammy Sofa]

Moving Soriano isn't essential to fixing this team, but I'm not exactly sure how he would have "negative value" to another team if the Cubs were picking up a good chunk of his salary. Edited June 14, 2010 by Sammy Sofa

[Keener98]

where did Soto get the reputation for being a defensive liability? Wasn't it just last year that the pitchers were saying how much they liked him as catcher and how he knows just the right thing to say to get the pitcher back into it (whether it's an ass chewing, a word of encouragement, or a joke about a fan in the 1st row)? I don't remember Soto being in Barrett/Doumit territory ever. Even if Hill is better, Soto would have to be a brick wall for Hill's defense to make up the difference in offense.

 

From his dumbass manager always raving about Hill's defense, and making defensive substitutions for Soto

[Tracer Bullet]

yeah, my question was really aimed at Lou's apparent perceptions of each player.

[Guest]

Moving Soriano isn't essential to fixing this team, but I'm not exactly sure how he would have "negative value" to another team if the Cubs were picking up a good chunk of his salary.

B/c he's less than replacement level value right now or close to it.

[UK1679666180]

Do you people clamoring for Tyler Colvin understand hes striking out 1 in every 3 times at bat? Project that over a course of a season, and then tell me you think Colvin has been treated unfairly and should play more.

 

Im not saying K's are that bad, but when hes not a walk machine or a power machine like Dunn, 1 out of every 3 times at bat is not good.

 

For a rookie playing the yo-yo game, that K ratio isn't too surprising nor is it that bad. Hard to improve timing and pitch recongition given his playing schedule.

 

It's not that he's being treated unfairly (although I think he should be at Iowa if he's not going to start), it's that this teams needs to go in a rebuilding direction and it would answer some serious questions whether or not to find out if he can be a ML regular in the OF.