Re: NSBB mock draft 2009

[dew1679666265]

So most pundits see a WR here but Crabtree is hugely overrated. Ruskell is someone who also goes talent before need or what the fans look for.

 

With the Mock here taking an odd turn already, Stafford looks like an interesting choice because Hass is already 34, but there will likely be at least 1 more year for him and a better value will be available later in the draft.

 

Seahawks choose:

OT Eugene Monroe - Virginia

 

seahawks fans would riot about this pick (if they care)

 

I agree, but it'd be a great pick. I like Monroe quite a bit.

[dew1679666265]

Wow, first mock that I have ever seen with Crabtree not going to the Seahawks. I like Monroe but I think J. Smith is the best OL prospect in this draft.

 

Mike Aller / Cleveland is on the clock.

 

I'm not a Crabtree fan, and I think Monroe is the best OT in the draft, and the 2nd best player available. (Curry 1st)

 

I love Crabtree. I think he'll be a steal from this point on.

[imb]

can someone explain to me the crabtree love?

 

average height, average weight, average speed, great numbers but played in a pass 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th offense. it's not like he's calvin johnson

[OleMissCub]

4 receptions for 30 yds in the Cotton Bowl....just sayin.

[dew1679666265]

can someone explain to me the crabtree love?

 

average height, average weight, average speed, great numbers but played in a pass 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th offense. it's not like he's calvin johnson

 

He's not Calvin Johnson, but at 6-3 he's taller than most WRs in the draft, he's strong and athletic and has good to very good hands. Plus he's only 21, so he's got more time and upside.

 

I kinda question whether he's average speed or not. He's no burner, but the times I've seen him I'd say he's probably above average speed.

[bukie]

can someone explain to me the crabtree love?

 

average height, average weight, average speed, great numbers but played in a pass 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th offense. it's not like he's calvin johnson

 

He's not Calvin Johnson, but at 6-3 he's taller than most WRs in the draft, he's strong and athletic and has good to very good hands. Plus he's only 21, so he's got more time and upside.

 

I kinda question whether he's average speed or not. He's no burner, but the times I've seen him I'd say he's probably above average speed.

He's 6-1.

[jame.gumb]

can someone explain to me the crabtree love?

 

average height, average weight, average speed, great numbers but played in a pass 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th offense. it's not like he's calvin johnson

 

He's not Calvin Johnson, but at 6-3 he's taller than most WRs in the draft, he's strong and athletic and has good to very good hands. Plus he's only 21, so he's got more time and upside.

 

I kinda question whether he's average speed or not. He's no burner, but the times I've seen him I'd say he's probably above average speed.

 

I think he measured at just over 6'1".

[dew1679666265]

can someone explain to me the crabtree love?

 

average height, average weight, average speed, great numbers but played in a pass 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th offense. it's not like he's calvin johnson

 

He's not Calvin Johnson, but at 6-3 he's taller than most WRs in the draft, he's strong and athletic and has good to very good hands. Plus he's only 21, so he's got more time and upside.

 

I kinda question whether he's average speed or not. He's no burner, but the times I've seen him I'd say he's probably above average speed.

He's 6-1.

 

Did he get measured at the combine? ESPN has him listed at 6-3.

[bukie]

can someone explain to me the crabtree love?

 

average height, average weight, average speed, great numbers but played in a pass 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th offense. it's not like he's calvin johnson

 

He's not Calvin Johnson, but at 6-3 he's taller than most WRs in the draft, he's strong and athletic and has good to very good hands. Plus he's only 21, so he's got more time and upside.

 

I kinda question whether he's average speed or not. He's no burner, but the times I've seen him I'd say he's probably above average speed.

He's 6-1.

 

Did he get measured at the combine? ESPN has him listed at 6-3.

Yeah, he was measured 6-1 at the combine. ESPN probably didn't update it yet. Crabtree is essentially an average WR physically that played in an offense designed to get him the ball as often as possible.

[dew1679666265]

can someone explain to me the crabtree love?

 

average height, average weight, average speed, great numbers but played in a pass 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th offense. it's not like he's calvin johnson

 

He's not Calvin Johnson, but at 6-3 he's taller than most WRs in the draft, he's strong and athletic and has good to very good hands. Plus he's only 21, so he's got more time and upside.

 

I kinda question whether he's average speed or not. He's no burner, but the times I've seen him I'd say he's probably above average speed.

He's 6-1.

 

Did he get measured at the combine? ESPN has him listed at 6-3.

Yeah, he was measured 6-1 at the combine. ESPN probably didn't update it yet. Crabtree is essentially an average WR physically that played in an offense designed to get him the ball as often as possible.

 

Ok, I hadn't seen him get measured. I see it now, though.

 

I'd be interested to see his 40 time. They can be deceiving, but I think he's faster than many people think.

[shnsajax]

can someone explain to me the crabtree love?

 

average height, average weight, average speed, great numbers but played in a pass 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th offense. it's not like he's calvin johnson

 

He's not Calvin Johnson, but at 6-3 he's taller than most WRs in the draft, he's strong and athletic and has good to very good hands. Plus he's only 21, so he's got more time and upside.

 

I kinda question whether he's average speed or not. He's no burner, but the times I've seen him I'd say he's probably above average speed.

 

I think he measured at just over 6'1".

 

Crabtree has been listed just over 6'1" and as high as 6'3", so I don't really know what to think. I like Crabtree, but I also like Dez White coming out next year more.

[Guest]

can someone explain to me the crabtree love?

 

average height, average weight, average speed, great numbers but played in a pass 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th offense. it's not like he's calvin johnson

 

He's not Calvin Johnson, but at 6-3 he's taller than most WRs in the draft, he's strong and athletic and has good to very good hands. Plus he's only 21, so he's got more time and upside.

 

I kinda question whether he's average speed or not. He's no burner, but the times I've seen him I'd say he's probably above average speed.

He's 6-1.

 

Did he get measured at the combine? ESPN has him listed at 6-3.

Yeah, he was measured 6-1 at the combine. ESPN probably didn't update it yet. Crabtree is essentially an average WR physically that played in an offense designed to get him the ball as often as possible.

 

Still got to make the plays though, which he did repeatedly. I agree with IMB, he's not a total stud (like Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald), but he's a very good WR.

[imb]

can someone explain to me the crabtree love?

 

average height, average weight, average speed, great numbers but played in a pass 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th offense. it's not like he's calvin johnson

 

He's not Calvin Johnson, but at 6-3 he's taller than most WRs in the draft, he's strong and athletic and has good to very good hands. Plus he's only 21, so he's got more time and upside.

 

I kinda question whether he's average speed or not. He's no burner, but the times I've seen him I'd say he's probably above average speed.

He's 6-1.

 

Did he get measured at the combine? ESPN has him listed at 6-3.

Yeah, he was measured 6-1 at the combine. ESPN probably didn't update it yet. Crabtree is essentially an average WR physically that played in an offense designed to get him the ball as often as possible.

 

Still got to make the plays though, which he did repeatedly. I agree with IMB, he's not a total stud (like Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald), but he's a very good WR.

 

i think he ends up a possession guy

 

WRs bust so often, it wouldnt surprise me if he ended up a nobody

 

teams are always so wet to add a star WR that i think they're dishonest with themselves sometimes. crabtree is average or just above average almost across the board, but he put up huge numbers so gms are soaking their britches. i follow the draft pretty hard all year long, but the talk is 95% "is he the next larry fitzgerald" and 5% "wait, is he a system guy?"

[dew1679666265]

can someone explain to me the crabtree love?

 

average height, average weight, average speed, great numbers but played in a pass 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th offense. it's not like he's calvin johnson

 

He's not Calvin Johnson, but at 6-3 he's taller than most WRs in the draft, he's strong and athletic and has good to very good hands. Plus he's only 21, so he's got more time and upside.

 

I kinda question whether he's average speed or not. He's no burner, but the times I've seen him I'd say he's probably above average speed.

He's 6-1.

 

Did he get measured at the combine? ESPN has him listed at 6-3.

Yeah, he was measured 6-1 at the combine. ESPN probably didn't update it yet. Crabtree is essentially an average WR physically that played in an offense designed to get him the ball as often as possible.

 

Still got to make the plays though, which he did repeatedly. I agree with IMB, he's not a total stud (like Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald), but he's a very good WR.

 

i think he ends up a possession guy

 

WRs bust so often, it wouldnt surprise me if he ended up a nobody

 

teams are always so wet to add a star WR that i think they're dishonest with themselves sometimes. crabtree is average or just above average almost across the board, but he put up huge numbers so gms are soaking their britches. i follow the draft pretty hard all year long, but the talk is 95% "is he the next larry fitzgerald" and 5% "wait, is he a system guy?"

 

I don't think he's the next Larry Fitzgerald, but I also think he's got a good shot to be a very productive WR.

[stuy119]

can someone explain to me the crabtree love?

 

average height, average weight, average speed, great numbers but played in a pass 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th offense. it's not like he's calvin johnson

 

He's not Calvin Johnson, but at 6-3 he's taller than most WRs in the draft, he's strong and athletic and has good to very good hands. Plus he's only 21, so he's got more time and upside.

 

I kinda question whether he's average speed or not. He's no burner, but the times I've seen him I'd say he's probably above average speed.

He's 6-1.

 

Did he get measured at the combine? ESPN has him listed at 6-3.

Yeah, he was measured 6-1 at the combine. ESPN probably didn't update it yet. Crabtree is essentially an average WR physically that played in an offense designed to get him the ball as often as possible.

 

Still got to make the plays though, which he did repeatedly. I agree with IMB, he's not a total stud (like Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald), but he's a very good WR.

 

i think he ends up a possession guy

 

WRs bust so often, it wouldnt surprise me if he ended up a nobody

 

teams are always so wet to add a star WR that i think they're dishonest with themselves sometimes. crabtree is average or just above average almost across the board, but he put up huge numbers so gms are soaking their britches. i follow the draft pretty hard all year long, but the talk is 95% "is he the next larry fitzgerald" and 5% "wait, is he a system guy?"

 

I don't think he's the next Larry Fitzgerald, but I also think he's got a good shot to be a very productive WR.

 

You hardly ever see a WR come in and make an impact from day one. Only established teams with solid WR groups should be drafting a WR.

[CubbieBum]

can someone explain to me the crabtree love?

 

average height, average weight, average speed, great numbers but played in a pass 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th offense. it's not like he's calvin johnson

 

He's not Calvin Johnson, but at 6-3 he's taller than most WRs in the draft, he's strong and athletic and has good to very good hands. Plus he's only 21, so he's got more time and upside.

 

I kinda question whether he's average speed or not. He's no burner, but the times I've seen him I'd say he's probably above average speed.

He's 6-1.

 

Did he get measured at the combine? ESPN has him listed at 6-3.

Yeah, he was measured 6-1 at the combine. ESPN probably didn't update it yet. Crabtree is essentially an average WR physically that played in an offense designed to get him the ball as often as possible.

 

Still got to make the plays though, which he did repeatedly. I agree with IMB, he's not a total stud (like Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald), but he's a very good WR.

 

i think he ends up a possession guy

 

WRs bust so often, it wouldnt surprise me if he ended up a nobody

 

teams are always so wet to add a star WR that i think they're dishonest with themselves sometimes. crabtree is average or just above average almost across the board, but he put up huge numbers so gms are soaking their britches. i follow the draft pretty hard all year long, but the talk is 95% "is he the next larry fitzgerald" and 5% "wait, is he a system guy?"

 

I don't think he's the next Larry Fitzgerald, but I also think he's got a good shot to be a very productive WR.

 

You hardly ever see a WR come in and make an impact from day one. Only established teams with solid WR groups should be drafting a WR.

 

 

Watching him play in college it was obvious he was a ridiculous talent. I wouldn't put him on the Fitzgerald level but I would rate him higher than say Mike Williams when he came out. I realize Williams amounted to nothing but Fitz, Williams and Crabtree all play a similar style. Fitz was a clear top 5 prospect while Williams was between 5-15. I put Crabtree right in the middle. He can go top 5 but he could also slip to 8-12 if Maclin runs a 4.3 at his pro day.

[dew1679666265]

You hardly ever see a WR come in and make an impact from day one. Only established teams with solid WR groups should be drafting a WR.

 

It certainly helps to have veteran WRs around the young guy, but I think some young WRs can have success without an established group around them.

 

How established do you mean, also? Do you mean only the Colts and Patriots should draft receivers, or can the Titans (who have veterans, but aren't very strong at the position) draft one by your standards? If you mean a strong, quality group, then there's not that many teams like that and most of those don't need WRs. If you just mean solid veterans, then I tend to agree.

[stuy119]

You hardly ever see a WR come in and make an impact from day one. Only established teams with solid WR groups should be drafting a WR.

 

It certainly helps to have veteran WRs around the young guy, but I think some young WRs can have success without an established group around them.

 

How established do you mean, also? Do you mean only the Colts and Patriots should draft receivers, or can the Titans (who have veterans, but aren't very strong at the position) draft one by your standards? If you mean a strong, quality group, then there's not that many teams like that and most of those don't need WRs. If you just mean solid veterans, then I tend to agree.

 

A solid group of veterans who are capable of producing, and don't count on the new WR to make a serious impact.

 

For example, if a team is strong and has a solid core of veterans (the Titans) and seems in need of only a WR, by all means draft one (yes, I know they have other holes after FA). But if you need an impact WR (like Seattle), it's better to go out on the market and pick up a good FA and draft a different player at a position that is more predictable.

[TruffleShuffle]

You hardly ever see a WR come in and make an impact from day one. Only established teams with solid WR groups should be drafting a WR.

 

It certainly helps to have veteran WRs around the young guy, but I think some young WRs can have success without an established group around them.

 

How established do you mean, also? Do you mean only the Colts and Patriots should draft receivers, or can the Titans (who have veterans, but aren't very strong at the position) draft one by your standards? If you mean a strong, quality group, then there's not that many teams like that and most of those don't need WRs. If you just mean solid veterans, then I tend to agree.

 

yeah this doesn't make a lot of sense to me. if you don't have good WRs, doesn't that mean that it would be a good idea to draft one early? otherwise you have to upgrade through free agency or trade, both of which are more expensive options.

 

plus i wouldn't say that you "hardly ever" see a receiver come in and make an impact right away. larry fitzgerald and anquan boldin did. randy moss and marvin harrison did. torry holt did. in fact, i'd say that WR isn't especially hard for a rookie to play, as long as he's physically mature enough. hell, desean jackson had almost 1000 yards for the eagles last year, and he was hardly considered an elite WR coming out of college.

[Guest]

can someone explain to me the crabtree love?

 

average height, average weight, average speed, great numbers but played in a pass 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th offense. it's not like he's calvin johnson

 

He's not Calvin Johnson, but at 6-3 he's taller than most WRs in the draft, he's strong and athletic and has good to very good hands. Plus he's only 21, so he's got more time and upside.

 

I kinda question whether he's average speed or not. He's no burner, but the times I've seen him I'd say he's probably above average speed.

 

I think he measured at just over 6'1".

 

Crabtree has been listed just over 6'1" and as high as 6'3", so I don't really know what to think. I like Crabtree, but I also like Dez White coming out next year more.

 

That's because Dez White is a stud.

[jersey cubs fan]

You hardly ever see a WR come in and make an impact from day one. Only established teams with solid WR groups should be drafting a WR.

 

It certainly helps to have veteran WRs around the young guy, but I think some young WRs can have success without an established group around them.

 

How established do you mean, also? Do you mean only the Colts and Patriots should draft receivers, or can the Titans (who have veterans, but aren't very strong at the position) draft one by your standards? If you mean a strong, quality group, then there's not that many teams like that and most of those don't need WRs. If you just mean solid veterans, then I tend to agree.

 

A solid group of veterans who are capable of producing, and don't count on the new WR to make a serious impact.

 

For example, if a team is strong and has a solid core of veterans (the Titans) and seems in need of only a WR, by all means draft one (yes, I know they have other holes after FA). But if you need an impact WR (like Seattle), it's better to go out on the market and pick up a good FA and draft a different player at a position that is more predictable.

 

How in the world do you justify that theory? Arizona shouldn't have drafted Fitzgerald? Why can't a mediocre team draft a WR?

[stuy119]

You hardly ever see a WR come in and make an impact from day one. Only established teams with solid WR groups should be drafting a WR.

 

It certainly helps to have veteran WRs around the young guy, but I think some young WRs can have success without an established group around them.

 

How established do you mean, also? Do you mean only the Colts and Patriots should draft receivers, or can the Titans (who have veterans, but aren't very strong at the position) draft one by your standards? If you mean a strong, quality group, then there's not that many teams like that and most of those don't need WRs. If you just mean solid veterans, then I tend to agree.

 

A solid group of veterans who are capable of producing, and don't count on the new WR to make a serious impact.

 

For example, if a team is strong and has a solid core of veterans (the Titans) and seems in need of only a WR, by all means draft one (yes, I know they have other holes after FA). But if you need an impact WR (like Seattle), it's better to go out on the market and pick up a good FA and draft a different player at a position that is more predictable.

 

How in the world do you justify that theory? Arizona shouldn't have drafted Fitzgerald? Why can't a mediocre team draft a WR?

 

They can, but more often than not the WR drafted will not end up being a difference-maker.

 

Truffle mentioned a few cases earlier, and most of those don't fit into this group either. Holt went to the Rams when they had Bruce (and someone else, I can't remember who), Moss went to MIN who already had Carter (and were already a pretty good team), Harrison I don't even remember where the Colts were when he came in, and Jackson was joining an established cast in Philly.

 

Again, there are few cases of a WR coming in to make an immediate impact on a team that wasn't already an established contender.

[jersey cubs fan]

Again, there are few cases of a WR coming in to make an immediate impact on a team that wasn't already an established contender.

 

Okay, but why does he have to make an immediate impact in order to justify being drafted? It makes absolutely no sense to say unless you have an established receiving core you can't draft a WR and can only sign free agents.

[SpongeWorthy]

Crabtree is certainly not average when it comes to getting separation, body positioning, and catching the ball. He's not a ridiculous athlete (although he's a pretty good one) but neither are a lot of top flight WRs.

[dew1679666265]

You hardly ever see a WR come in and make an impact from day one. Only established teams with solid WR groups should be drafting a WR.

 

It certainly helps to have veteran WRs around the young guy, but I think some young WRs can have success without an established group around them.

 

How established do you mean, also? Do you mean only the Colts and Patriots should draft receivers, or can the Titans (who have veterans, but aren't very strong at the position) draft one by your standards? If you mean a strong, quality group, then there's not that many teams like that and most of those don't need WRs. If you just mean solid veterans, then I tend to agree.

 

A solid group of veterans who are capable of producing, and don't count on the new WR to make a serious impact.

 

For example, if a team is strong and has a solid core of veterans (the Titans) and seems in need of only a WR, by all means draft one (yes, I know they have other holes after FA). But if you need an impact WR (like Seattle), it's better to go out on the market and pick up a good FA and draft a different player at a position that is more predictable.

 

How in the world do you justify that theory? Arizona shouldn't have drafted Fitzgerald? Why can't a mediocre team draft a WR?

 

They can, but more often than not the WR drafted will not end up being a difference-maker.

 

Truffle mentioned a few cases earlier, and most of those don't fit into this group either. Holt went to the Rams when they had Bruce (and someone else, I can't remember who), Moss went to MIN who already had Carter (and were already a pretty good team), Harrison I don't even remember where the Colts were when he came in, and Jackson was joining an established cast in Philly.

 

Again, there are few cases of a WR coming in to make an immediate impact on a team that wasn't already an established contender.

 

Holt's rookie year was the 99 Super Bowl Rams ( :evil: still a bit bitter) and Moss entered in 98 with Cris Carter and Jake Reed.

 

Harrison, however, entered the Colts in 96 with their top receivers being Sean Dawkins, Brian Stablein and Aaron Bailey. They weren't good. And Jackson's group may be established, but they're not particularly good. Reggie Brown, Hank Baskett and Kevin Curtis are all ok vets, but nothing special.