Re: NSBB mock draft 2009

[stuy119]

Bump to keep us on the first page.

[Guest]

Dew, did you fire off a PM to EhDubya?

 

Is there a draft clock for picks? What is the policy for weekends when this place is a bit slower?

[Splendid_Splinter]

Mark, I think we should take Everette Brown out of FSU. With Kampman playing 50% of the snaps at one of the OLB spots, that opens up a DE spot on the three down linemen. I think Brown would be able to compliment Cullen Jenkins extremely well in the pass rush. Okrapo would have been my choice if he was still on the board, but I think Brown makes a lot of sense for us as well.

 

Let's see what you have to say.

If the Packers were to pick Brown they would use him as an outside linebacker across from Aaron Kampman. Brown is way too small to play as a defensive end in a 3-4, where linemen normally ought to weight around 300 pounds. If Justin Harrell is healthy, from everything I've heard out of the Packers' front office, he will be the defensive end opposite Cullen Jenkins.

 

While my input doesn't matter, as a Packers fan I would say avoid Brown at all costs. It may be irrational on my part, but he just screams bust like every other undersized defensive end from Florida State.

 

Except most of those "busts" were used in a 4-3, not a 3-4.

Coincidentally the one player I was thinking of when I wrote that post was Kamerion Wimbley. Outside of his rookie season he continues to be a disappointment in a 3-4 defense.

 

Since you're the resident Florida State fan can you name any DE/OLB, other than Peter Boulware, that has actually lived up their hype?

 

Actually, from a lot of thing I've heard (and read), it's the success of Wimbley and his work ethic that is pushing the Browns toward taking Everette Brown. Wimbley (aside from the 11 sacks of his rookie year) has been pretty consistent in his 3 years in the NFL.

 

But, no, I can't name another off the top of my head. Like you said, it's due to the small-ish size of the DE's in our system which is based on speed and not power, and makes them more suited to a 3-4 (which wasn't used much in the NFL until the past 6-8 years - after our heyday of producing top college DE's).

Do you by chance have a link to any site that says the Browns are thinking of drafting Everette Brown because of how successful Wimbley has been? Right now any news that Brown may be off the board by the time the Packers pick is good news to me.

 

About Wimbley he has been consistent, but below expectations of what people expect for the 13th pick in the draft. For a guy who is supposed to be a pass rushing threat and all around playmakers on the Browns' defense, there is absolutely nothing that points to him being either of those. I will cut him slack on two things though. The 2-gap 3-4 that the Browns run is a complicated defense, and normally any team that runs it takes time to develop their linebackers. Another thing is he is the only player in the Browns' front seven that is a threat to the opposing team's offense. I'm sure it is easy to scheme him out of plays so that he becomes a non-factor. There is still time for him to develop, but right now he appears to be a huge disappointment.

 

About Everette Brown there is no questioning his skills as a pash rusher. Outside of Aaron Maybin there is no other defensive end that can match his quickness off the snap. Add to that that Brown already has multiple pass rushing moves, with his spin move being the best of all of them. The one thing I'm leery of is his overreliance on his speed to get sacks in college. Watching highlights of his the Seminoles were able to line him up wide of the tackle and use his speed to get by most blockers untouched. In the NFL I think that there too many OTs that have superior lateral movement where Brown will not be able to get away with just using his speed. Due to this I see him as a better fit in a Tampa-2 like Indianapolis where there is less emphasis on the defensive ends to be run defenders.

 

The one thing that absolutely terrifies me of him is how terrible he is as a run defender. The only game that I was fully able to watch every defensive snap of his was Florida State's bowl game against Wisconsin. For most of the game on running plays the Badgers were able to successfully block Brown using Garrett Graham, a tight end. If he already has problems being blocked out of plays by a decent tight end, how do you think will translate to the NFL where he will have to face much better tight ends and offensive tackles? I'm not saying he can't get better against the run, but there is a lot of work that has to be done for such a high pick. Especially in this draft where there are at least 4 or so DE/OLB prospects that I view as being a better pro than him.

 

The other thing is I was disappointed by his showing at the NFL Combine. He had an above average time in the 40, but what concerns me is his showing for the vertical jump and the broad jump. For a player that is supposed to be explosive a vertical jump of 31.5" and a broad jump of 9'06" is simply terrible. Compare that to Demarcus Ware who put up a vertical jump of 38.5" and a broad jump of 10'02". It appears that Brown has very little power in his first step, and instead relies on the speed of his first step to simply run by slower players. Alsoo I'm skeptical that he will ever be able to fully develop even an average bull-rush move. For a 3-4 OLB that is not something you want to hear. Until Florida State's Pro Day no one will know if those numbers are accurrate of his lower body strength or if he just had a really bad day at the Combine

 

Another DE/OLB bust from Florida State that I thought of was Alonzo Jackson. Granted he was a late pick in the second round, but again playing in Pittsburgh's 3-4 that is favorable for OLBs just didn't help him.

[stuy119]

Mark, I think we should take Everette Brown out of FSU. With Kampman playing 50% of the snaps at one of the OLB spots, that opens up a DE spot on the three down linemen. I think Brown would be able to compliment Cullen Jenkins extremely well in the pass rush. Okrapo would have been my choice if he was still on the board, but I think Brown makes a lot of sense for us as well.

 

Let's see what you have to say.

If the Packers were to pick Brown they would use him as an outside linebacker across from Aaron Kampman. Brown is way too small to play as a defensive end in a 3-4, where linemen normally ought to weight around 300 pounds. If Justin Harrell is healthy, from everything I've heard out of the Packers' front office, he will be the defensive end opposite Cullen Jenkins.

 

While my input doesn't matter, as a Packers fan I would say avoid Brown at all costs. It may be irrational on my part, but he just screams bust like every other undersized defensive end from Florida State.

 

Except most of those "busts" were used in a 4-3, not a 3-4.

Coincidentally the one player I was thinking of when I wrote that post was Kamerion Wimbley. Outside of his rookie season he continues to be a disappointment in a 3-4 defense.

 

Since you're the resident Florida State fan can you name any DE/OLB, other than Peter Boulware, that has actually lived up their hype?

 

Actually, from a lot of thing I've heard (and read), it's the success of Wimbley and his work ethic that is pushing the Browns toward taking Everette Brown. Wimbley (aside from the 11 sacks of his rookie year) has been pretty consistent in his 3 years in the NFL.

 

But, no, I can't name another off the top of my head. Like you said, it's due to the small-ish size of the DE's in our system which is based on speed and not power, and makes them more suited to a 3-4 (which wasn't used much in the NFL until the past 6-8 years - after our heyday of producing top college DE's).

Do you by chance have a link to any site that says the Browns are thinking of drafting Everette Brown because of how successful Wimbley has been? Right now any news that Brown may be off the board by the time the Packers pick is good news to me.

 

About Wimbley he has been consistent, but below expectations of what people expect for the 13th pick in the draft. For a guy who is supposed to be a pass rushing threat and all around playmakers on the Browns' defense, there is absolutely nothing that points to him being either of those. I will cut him slack on two things though. The 2-gap 3-4 that the Browns run is a complicated defense, and normally any team that runs it takes time to develop their linebackers. Another thing is he is the only player in the Browns' front seven that is a threat to the opposing team's offense. I'm sure it is easy to scheme him out of plays so that he becomes a non-factor. There is still time for him to develop, but right now he appears to be a huge disappointment.

 

About Everette Brown there is no questioning his skills as a pash rusher. Outside of Aaron Maybin there is no other defensive end that can match his quickness off the snap. Add to that that Brown already has multiple pass rushing moves, with his spin move being the best of all of them. The one thing I'm leery of is his overreliance on his speed to get sacks in college. Watching highlights of his the Seminoles were able to line him up wide of the tackle and use his speed to get by most blockers untouched. In the NFL I think that there too many OTs that have superior lateral movement where Brown will not be able to get away with just using his speed. Due to this I see him as a better fit in a Tampa-2 like Indianapolis where there is less emphasis on the defensive ends to be run defenders.

 

The one thing that absolutely terrifies me of him is how terrible he is as a run defender. The only game that I was fully able to watch every defensive snap of his was Florida State's bowl game against Wisconsin. For most of the game on running plays the Badgers were able to successfully block Brown using Garrett Graham, a tight end. If he already has problems being blocked out of plays by a decent tight end, how do you think will translate to the NFL where he will have to face much better tight ends and offensive tackles? I'm not saying he can't get better against the run, but there is a lot of work that has to be done for such a high pick. Especially in this draft where there are at least 4 or so DE/OLB prospects that I view as being a better pro than him.

 

The other thing is I was disappointed by his showing at the NFL Combine. He had an above average time in the 40, but what concerns me is his showing for the vertical jump and the broad jump. For a player that is supposed to be explosive a vertical jump of 31.5" and a broad jump of 9'06" is simply terrible. Compare that to Demarcus Ware who put up a vertical jump of 38.5" and a broad jump of 10'02". It appears that Brown has very little power in his first step, and instead relies on the speed of his first step to simply run by slower players. Alsoo I'm skeptical that he will ever be able to fully develop even an average bull-rush move. For a 3-4 OLB that is not something you want to hear. Until Florida State's Pro Day no one will know if those numbers are accurrate of his lower body strength or if he just had a really bad day at the Combine

 

Another DE/OLB bust from Florida State that I thought of was Alonzo Jackson. Granted he was a late pick in the second round, but again playing in Pittsburgh's 3-4 that is favorable for OLBs just didn't help him.

 

A good reason for the lack of run support is that we rely on our LB's to fill the gaps and make plays. Our DE are mainly for getting a speed rush, the DT to fill gaps, and the LB to get to the ball.

 

A classic game for this was against Wisconsin. EB didn't have a great game, but looked great rushing the passer. His lack of stats (and below-average run production) were reasons we wanted him back. Of course, some of his combine deficiencies could be due to adding weight quickly. There are reports that he played the last couple of games of the year at 225, which is terribly low for a DE. I understand he was at 250 or so at the combine.

 

And I was never sold on Jackson either. Nice guy but didn't seem to have the "stuff" for the NFL.

[OleMissCub]

This is going way too slow

[dew1679666265]

Dew, did you fire off a PM to EhDubya?

 

Is there a draft clock for picks? What is the policy for weekends when this place is a bit slower?

 

I PM'd him at around 11:30 (est) this morning. He hasn't checked it yet, hopefully he will at some point soon.

 

I've put it at around 24 hours per pick since everybody wanted a slower pace during the weekend, but I thought it'd be too confusing to have two different amounts of time to make picks. Should we shorten the time some?

[dew1679666265]

This is going way too slow

 

Yeah, it's hard to keep everybody around when their picks come up.

[CubColtPacer]

This is going way too slow

 

It is going a little slow, but we probably need to go slow so we can figure out the compensatory selections before that part of the draft comes around. I mean, we've done 10 picks in 2 1/2 days. 10 days per round (which would be slightly slower than we've gone so far) is still going to have us in the 6th round or so by the time the draft comes along.

[dew1679666265]

If EhDubya doesn't pick by 11 a.m. (EST), I'll go ahead and make the Bills' selection myself. Hopefully it will get moving after that.

[Splendid_Splinter]

A good reason for the lack of run support is that we rely on our LB's to fill the gaps and make plays. Our DE are mainly for getting a speed rush, the DT to fill gaps, and the LB to get to the ball.

 

A classic game for this was against Wisconsin. EB didn't have a great game, but looked great rushing the passer. His lack of stats (and below-average run production) were reasons we wanted him back. Of course, some of his combine deficiencies could be due to adding weight quickly. There are reports that he played the last couple of games of the year at 225, which is terribly low for a DE. I understand he was at 250 or so at the combine.

 

And I was never sold on Jackson either. Nice guy but didn't seem to have the "stuff" for the NFL.

Thanks for the breakdown of every position's responsibilities for the Florida State defense. Knowing that Brown's only responsibility was to rush the passer I think it only reinforces my belief that he will only excel in a Tampa-2 defense. At the very least it would limit the number of times that he would be called upon to defend against the run.

 

I'm willing to wait and see how he does at the FSU Pro Day. It's nice to see that he now weights 256 pounds now, but I'm just surprised that he didn't at least add some lower body strength. Between the Combine and the Wisconsin game (granted it is a small sample size) I am not at all comfortable with the Packers trying to convert him into an OLB. His skills as a pass rusher are obvious but when it comes to holding his own against the run I don't see it in him. Of course he could become better with the proper teaching, but for the Packers to take him ninth he is just too much of a project. Factor in that this draft is deep with better all-around 3-4 OLBs there are numerous players who I view as much better value than Brown.

 

BTW do you have any links that says Cleveland is seriously considering selecting Everette Brown with their first round pick?

[TruffleShuffle]

the bills pick the next jp losman, whoever that may be.

 

who's up next?

[stuy119]

A good reason for the lack of run support is that we rely on our LB's to fill the gaps and make plays. Our DE are mainly for getting a speed rush, the DT to fill gaps, and the LB to get to the ball.

 

A classic game for this was against Wisconsin. EB didn't have a great game, but looked great rushing the passer. His lack of stats (and below-average run production) were reasons we wanted him back. Of course, some of his combine deficiencies could be due to adding weight quickly. There are reports that he played the last couple of games of the year at 225, which is terribly low for a DE. I understand he was at 250 or so at the combine.

 

And I was never sold on Jackson either. Nice guy but didn't seem to have the "stuff" for the NFL.

Thanks for the breakdown of every position's responsibilities for the Florida State defense. Knowing that Brown's only responsibility was to rush the passer I think it only reinforces my belief that he will only excel in a Tampa-2 defense. At the very least it would limit the number of times that he would be called upon to defend against the run.

 

I'm willing to wait and see how he does at the FSU Pro Day. It's nice to see that he now weights 256 pounds now, but I'm just surprised that he didn't at least add some lower body strength. Between the Combine and the Wisconsin game (granted it is a small sample size) I am not at all comfortable with the Packers trying to convert him into an OLB. His skills as a pass rusher are obvious but when it comes to holding his own against the run I don't see it in him. Of course he could become better with the proper teaching, but for the Packers to take him ninth he is just too much of a project. Factor in that this draft is deep with better all-around 3-4 OLBs there are numerous players who I view as much better value than Brown.

 

BTW do you have any links that says Cleveland is seriously considering selecting Everette Brown with their first round pick?

 

Nothing that I have saved or remember, other than a couple of short quips from (at least) a couple of weeks ago.

[dew1679666265]

nm

Denver and MPC are now on the clock and I PMd MPC.

Edited February 28, 2009 by dew

[EhDubya]

I guess my town picked a really crappy time to lose power... Edited February 28, 2009 by EhDubya

[dew1679666265]

I guess my town picked a really crappy time to lose power...

 

That sucks EhDubya. Do you at least like the pick? :)

[EhDubya]

The Cushing pick is fair, not one I would have made though. If I could change it, I'd take Tyson Jackson. He is the type of DE that could come right in and play from Day 1. Cushing won't be a very good pro, IMO.

 

Sorry guys, we all really did lose power last night and into the morning, and work was pretty busy yesterday during the day.

[dew1679666265]

The Cushing pick is fair, not one I would have made though. If I could change it, I'd take Tyson Jackson. He is the type of DE that could come right in and play from Day 1. Cushing won't be a very good pro, IMO.

 

Sorry guys, we all really did lose power last night and into the morning, and work was pretty busy yesterday during the day.

 

I like Cushing quite a bit and, while I thought a DE was needed, I didn't think Tyson Jackson was significantly better than guys like Robert Ayers and Michael Johnson who may be available early in the second round.

 

The dropoff from Cushing to Clint Sintim and Clay Matthews is greater, I think.

[EhDubya]

So even though I'm here now and the next pick hasn't been made, you can't change it to reflect the pick I would make?

[dew1679666265]

So even though I'm here now and the next pick hasn't been made, you can't change it to reflect the pick I would make?

 

Eh, I don't see why not. Just make sure it doesn't happen again. :wink:

[EhDubya]

You rule dew.

 

I understand why people would like Cushing, and but I just don't see it. Maybe its because I am an east coast guy and I've dealt with the Cushing hype since he was in high school, or knowing that he will eventually be too slow to play OLB, and not enough juice in the world will make him an elite DE.

 

He is a system guy, and I don't see him fitting in with Buffalo.

[MPC]

the denver broncos are heading into their first draft without mike shanahan at the helm since 1994.

 

the 2008 team was third worst in the league in points allowed with an atrocious 28 points per game, especially appalling considering they are in the afc west. clearly improving the defense is a priority.

 

the denver broncos select LB Brian Cushing, USC.

[dew1679666265]

You rule dew.

 

I understand why people would like Cushing, and but I just don't see it. Maybe its because I am an east coast guy and I've dealt with the Cushing hype since he was in high school, or knowing that he will eventually be too slow to play OLB, and not enough juice in the world will make him an elite DE.

 

He is a system guy, and I don't see him fitting in with Buffalo.

 

Cushing might be a tad slow at 4.7, but he's athletic and very strong for a LB. I like him, but I see your concerns as well.

[dew1679666265]

the denver broncos are heading into their first draft without mike shanahan at the helm since 1994.

 

the 2008 team was third worst in the league in points allowed with an atrocious 28 points per game, especially appalling considering they are in the afc west. clearly improving the defense is a priority.

 

the denver broncos select LB Brian Cushing, USC.

 

Defense, defense, defense for the Broncos in this draft, I'd say.

[dew1679666265]

With now word from rchap and the 24 hours passed, I guess I'll make the Redskins' pick.

 

Washington needs tackles (Samuels and Jansen are on their last legs) as well as an outside linebacker to replace Marcus Washington. I don't think the LBs are worth drafting here, so the likelihood is they'll trade down and try to get a 2nd round pick. Since we can't do that, I'll focus on protecting Jason Campbell.

 

So, with the 13th pick in the draft, the Washington Redskins select Michael Oher, OT, Ole Miss.

 

OMC and the Saints are now on the clock.

[OleMissCub]

Sweet...Didn't think he'd fall this far

 

With the 14th pick in the draft, the New Orleans 'Aints select Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio State

 

 

 

Alot of people would like the Saints to select a LB, but I don't really like any in the current crop and I think that with Vilma being signed to a long term deal, that Vilma and Fujita will do just fine together. What the Saints need are some good DB's that can stay healthy.