Bulls get the #1 pick! 2008 NBA Draft Discussion

[CubsGM]

1. Michael Beasley is the best player in the draft

There's a guy like Michael Beasley in every draft (Although maybe not as good as him) but when you have a great point guard like Derrick Rose in a point guards league, you have to pick him.

[Flames24Rulz]

1. Michael Beasley is the best player in the draft

There's a guy like Michael Beasley in every draft (Although maybe not as good as him) but when you have a great point guard like Derrick Rose in a point guards league, you have to pick him.

 

A big(ger) guy that can both score inside and outside and that has phenomenal rebounding skills? I guess a guy like that comes around every draft.

 

I agree with you on Rose, but to totally dismiss Beasley as a "guy that comes around every draft" is really bad analysis.

[Derwood]

1. Michael Beasley is the best player in the draft

There's a guy like Michael Beasley in every draft (Although maybe not as good as him) but when you have a great point guard like Derrick Rose in a point guards league, you have to pick him.

 

A big(ger) guy that can both score inside and outside and that has phenomenal rebounding skills? I guess a guy like that comes around every draft.

 

I agree with you on Rose, but to totally dismiss Beasley as a "guy that comes around every draft" is really bad analysis.

 

at his size (compared to other NBA players at his position), won't his rebound numbers go down?

[RedFlash]

However, Beasley's biggest downside is his height. Do not forget that Tyrus was about 6'8 after he was taken after his Frosh year, and now stands around 6'10 1/2 presently. Luol Deng had a similar albeit smaller increase as well.

 

Is TT really 6'10, or is just wishful thinking? I have not seen anywhere, outside of Thorpe, that says Thomas is now 6'10. So again, has this been confirmed?

[TruffleShuffle]

i hate the stupid generalizations like "point guard's league." i guess rajon rondo and derek fisher are the cream of the crop then, since their teams played for the championship.

[imb]

i hate the stupid generalizations like "point guard's league." i guess rajon rondo and derek fisher are the cream of the crop then, since their teams played for the championship.

 

If the Bullsa had a kobe or a boston three party (yeah I said it), they could get away with Hinrich at PG for a few more years

[Soul]

However, Beasley's biggest downside is his height. Do not forget that Tyrus was about 6'8 after he was taken after his Frosh year, and now stands around 6'10 1/2 presently. Luol Deng had a similar albeit smaller increase as well.

 

Is TT really 6'10, or is just wishful thinking? I have not seen anywhere, outside of Thorpe, that says Thomas is now 6'10. So again, has this been confirmed?

 

I have my doubts about that as well.

[TruffleShuffle]

i hate the stupid generalizations like "point guard's league." i guess rajon rondo and derek fisher are the cream of the crop then, since their teams played for the championship.

 

If the Bulls had a kobe or a boston three party (yeah I said it), they could get away with Hinrich at PG for a few more years

 

no kidding. the NBA isn't a point guard's league or a center's league, it's a great player's league. most of the time, teams that win the championship have at least one great, dynamic player. the pistons were the exception to that rule, but you had KG and pierce this year, duncan with the spurs, shaq and wade in miami, shaq and kobe in l.a., jordan with the bulls. going back to the mid-90s, you've got four teams that could be considered to have a very good point guard - three spurs champions (parker) and one pistons championship (billups). the rest have basically been adequate players, role guys. so let's get off these dumb generalizations like "it's a point guard league" or (NCAA tournament edition) "great guards win in the Big Dance." great players and great teams win, not teams with good players at a certain position.

[imb]

i hate the stupid generalizations like "point guard's league." i guess rajon rondo and derek fisher are the cream of the crop then, since their teams played for the championship.

 

If the Bulls had a kobe or a boston three party (yeah I said it), they could get away with Hinrich at PG for a few more years

 

no kidding. the NBA isn't a point guard's league or a center's league, it's a great player's league. most of the time, teams that win the championship have at least one great, dynamic player. the pistons were the exception to that rule, but you had KG and pierce this year, duncan with the spurs, shaq and wade in miami, shaq and kobe in l.a., jordan with the bulls. going back to the mid-90s, you've got four teams that could be considered to have a very good point guard - three spurs champions (parker) and one pistons championship (billups). the rest have basically been adequate players, role guys. so let's get off these dumb generalizations like "it's a point guard league" or (NCAA tournament edition) "great guards win in the Big Dance." great players and great teams win, not teams with good players at a certain position.

 

are we arguing or agreeing? i think we're agreeing.

[CubbieBum]

I'm very happy with my Rockets draft. They got two very good players and in some of the weirdest trades of the day got a 2nd Rd. pick for next year. They drafted Batum at 25 then traded him for Arthur (was happy to have Arthur has he is a top 10 talent but we have the PF slot filled). We then trade Arthur for Donte Greene AND Joey Dorsey who was on the board at 25 in the first place plus Memphis' 2009 2nd rd pick. So we got the guy we wanted all along but through these trades picked up Dorsey and a pick. It amazes me that in essence we traded the 25th pick and got the 27th (Greene) and 33rd (Dorsey) picks plus next year's 2nd rder.

[Outshined_One]

I enjoyed the email Bill Simmons got from a reader who was upset Chris Wallace denied everyone the Gay-Love era with his insane trade.

[TruffleShuffle]

pat riley is probably wise to listen to the other folks in the organization... once upon a time he wanted chris kaman over dwyane wade.

[hawkeyecub]

I enjoyed the email Bill Simmons got from a reader who was upset Chris Wallace denied everyone the Gay-Love era with his insane trade.

 

He's annoyed me with the overwhelming Boston stuff but his draft diary is always good.

[imb]

pat riley is probably wise to listen to the other folks in the organization... once upon a time he wanted chris kaman over dwyane wade.

 

It might be fun to go through draft lotteries from the last 10-15 years and pick out how many big stiffs got drafted ahead of actual basketball players just because of their height.

[Derwood]

Illini fans should be thrilled. If there is any sort of karmic balance in the world, Eric Gordon getting drafted by the Clippers is sure evidence

[TruffleShuffle]

pat riley is probably wise to listen to the other folks in the organization... once upon a time he wanted chris kaman over dwyane wade.

 

It might be fun to go through draft lotteries from the last 10-15 years and pick out how many big stiffs got drafted ahead of actual basketball players just because of their height.

 

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/7/71/Bradley.jpg

 

my favorite part was that the sixers talked to the media about how shawn was a good golfer as well - as evidence that he was a good athlete. First of all, golf does not involve a whole lot of athletic ability. Second, you don't have to go bang around with guys who can bench press more than the bar when you play golf.

[TruffleShuffle]

i was intrigued by your idea IMB, so here we go - guys who were probably drafted very high (i'll keep it to the lottery) because they were tall, but as it turned out they couldn't play for beans:

 

2007: is it too early to list yi jianlian yet?

2006: is it too early to list andrea bargnani yet? it's probably not fair, because he's not a complete stiff and that was a really weak draft too. there should be no debate on saer sene or patrick o'bryant though.

2005: fran vasquez?

2004: robert swift, lol

2003: DARKO! chris kaman

2002: Tskitishvili, Nene?

2001: i wouldn't count kwame brown; everyone thought he'd be good and not because he was tall. desagana diop.

2000: not a complete stiff, but chris mihm. joel pryzbilla is terrible.

1999: Aleksandar Radojevic!

1998: Olowokandi? he was picked ahead of jamison and carter. michael doleac.

1997: adonal foyle (patriot league FTL :x )

1996: todd fuller. potapenko wasn't really terrible, but he was the pick before kobe bryant.

1995: BIG COUNTRY, and who can forget cherokee parks?

1994: i won't count sharone wright b/c he might've been good if not for injury. eric montross and yinka dare!

1993: almost none, but thankfully scott haskin was the last pick in the lottery.

[snoodmonger]

I don't think you can include Nene on that list. Also, Big Country was pretty good for a few seasons. He just got fat and injured.

 

My favorite Big County memory was his last (I think) college game, which was played at Allen Fieldhouse. He'd never gone scoreless in his college career, but that night, the Greg "The Big O" Ostertag, totally shut him down. Zero points. The crowd was going bananas.

[RynoRules]

Kaman is not a stiff. He's a solid ballplayer.

[Warpticon]

Prior to this past season, Kaman maybe deserved to be on that list. Now/ Not a chance. If you're expecting better than 16 and 13 out of your center...

 

pryzbilla is certainly a bust by lottery standards, but he's not terrible.

[TruffleShuffle]

i didn't realize that chris kaman finally showed up for a season. i guess there weren't any really good players picked after him - hinrich and tj ford were the next two guys; david west went after him, but he was 20th. so he's off the list. pryzbilla is pretty bad, but he can get some boards.

[RynoRules]

I think a lot of this depends on how you define your expectations. If you think the Lopez twins are the second coming of Russell and Chamberlin (or even Shaq and Mourning) simply b/c they were drafted in the first round, you are quite obviously living in the Twilight Zone. They are each likely to be role players, in spite of their first round status.

 

Remember: draft picks are all relative. You can't compare, say Oliwakandi being picked no. 1 to Duncan being picked no. 1. Its all relative to who else was available in that particular year.

 

Moreover, the ten or so drafts that took place before the NBA put in the minimum age rule were unique (and will remain so) in history, what with the influx of high schoolers and international players. Point is, its not an exact science when comparing drafts to each other, particulalry from era to era.

[illiniguy]

i was intrigued by your idea IMB, so here we go - guys who were probably drafted very high (i'll keep it to the lottery) because they were tall, but as it turned out they couldn't play for beans:

 

2007: is it too early to list yi jianlian yet? Yes, he might still become something.

2006: is it too early to list andrea bargnani yet? it's probably not fair, because he's not a complete stiff and that was a really weak draft too. there should be no debate on saer sene or patrick o'bryant though. Thanks Kansas.

2005: fran vasquez?

2004: robert swift, lol. The only white high schooler ever taken. Nice work Robert.

2003: DARKO! chris kaman

2002: Tskitishvili, Nene? Best pick ever.

2001: i wouldn't count kwame brown; everyone thought he'd be good and not because he was tall. desagana diop. Eddy Curry is pretty awful as well.

2000: not a complete stiff, but chris mihm. joel pryzbilla is terrible.This draft is terrible, easily the worst of the last 20 years. So yeah, but it didn't really matter. It was like choosing how to get shot.

1999: Aleksandar Radojevic!

1998: Olowokandi? he was picked ahead of jamison and carter. michael doleac. Paul Pierce went after all those clowns. Oh and you better add Raef LaFrentz to this list.

1997: adonal foyle (patriot league FTL :x )

1996: todd fuller. potapenko wasn't really terrible, but he was the pick before kobe bryant.

1995: BIG COUNTRY, and who can forget cherokee parks?The Bulls picked Jason Caffey instead of taking hometown kid Michael Finley. Nice work guys.

1994: i won't count sharone wright b/c he might've been good if not for injury. eric montross and yinka dare!

1993: almost none, but thankfully scott haskin was the last pick in the lottery.

1992 Shaquille O'Neal. Could have had Christian Laettner the best player ever.

[illiniguy]

I think a lot of this depends on how you define your expectations. If you think the Lopez twins are the second coming of Russell and Chamberlin (or even Shaq and Mourning) simply b/c they were drafted in the first round, you are quite obviously living in the Twilight Zone. They are each likely to be role players, in spite of their first round status.

 

Remember: draft picks are all relative. You can't compare, say Oliwakandi being picked no. 1 to Duncan being picked no. 1. Its all relative to who else was available in that particular year.

 

Moreover, the ten or so drafts that took place before the NBA put in the minimum age rule were unique (and will remain so) in history, what with the influx of high schoolers and international players. Point is, its not an exact science when comparing drafts to each other, particulalry from era to era.

Yeah um the Olowokandi draft was better than the Duncan draft. So that really makes the Clippers stupid.

[andrew9991]

I wish I could find a specific video..it was Rose when he was @ Simeon, basically he was on a fast break dribbling @ full speed and without breaking stride passed the ball back between his legs to a trailing teammate..it was beautiful...I think his passing ablitlity will really shine in the NBA, provided the Bulls don't ruin him.

 

 

It's in this one at about 2:40, it's pretty absurd.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtZd2koUMrk