Cedeno Over Cintron / Fontenot Over Murton - Paul Sullivan

[Outshined_One]

Hendry put himself in the position where he needed to sign Soriano for that contract by ignoring options like Vlad, Beltran, Tejeda, and others who would have been ideal fits when they were free agents.

 

While Hendry is MLB's worst GM, .

hi

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2007/10/01/QuID8a3t.jpg

 

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7236/ydzlcwewnq0.jpg

 

Sup dudes?

[Tyrant]

Hendry put himself in the position where he needed to sign Soriano for that contract by ignoring options like Vlad, Beltran, Tejeda, and others who would have been ideal fits when they were free agents.

 

While Hendry is MLB's worst GM, .

hi

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2007/10/01/QuID8a3t.jpg

 

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7236/ydzlcwewnq0.jpg

 

Sup dudes?

 

Greetings.

http://cache.deadspin.com/images/2006/04/bowdenbowdenyar.jpg

[Keener98]

is there anyone who truly doubts he could be a starting major league outfielder?

 

Evidently every front office guy in baseball. Hendry has been dangling him all offseason, and no one seems to be in any hurry to take him off his hands.

 

Just because hes been dangling him and no deal has been made doesnt mean he doesnt have value. Its more likely that every front office knows the Cubs have no room for him, and are trying to steal him from the Cubs. Since Hendry has made it so obvious they have no intention of ever using him correctly.

[rawaction]

Hendry put himself in the position where he needed to sign Soriano for that contract by ignoring options like Vlad, Beltran, Tejeda, and others who would have been ideal fits when they were free agents.

 

While Hendry is MLB's worst GM, .

hi

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2007/10/01/QuID8a3t.jpg

 

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7236/ydzlcwewnq0.jpg

 

Sup dudes?

 

Greetings.

http://cache.deadspin.com/images/2006/04/bowdenbowdenyar.jpg

 

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/john_donovan/04/02/whitesox.williams/p1.ken.williams.si.jpg

 

Don't let the ring fool you!

[Tyrant]

Hendry put himself in the position where he needed to sign Soriano for that contract by ignoring options like Vlad, Beltran, Tejeda, and others who would have been ideal fits when they were free agents.

 

While Hendry is MLB's worst GM, .

hi

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2007/10/01/QuID8a3t.jpg

 

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7236/ydzlcwewnq0.jpg

 

Sup dudes?

 

Greetings.

http://cache.deadspin.com/images/2006/04/bowdenbowdenyar.jpg

 

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/john_donovan/04/02/whitesox.williams/p1.ken.williams.si.jpg

 

Don't let the ring fool you!

 

hallo.

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2007/12/06/4pDTjgdA.jpg

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/steve_hofstetter/10/16/standup.guy/p1_hart.jpg

Can you help me? I seem to have misplaced Chris Young and Adrian Gonzales?

[Outshined_One]

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/6888/p1epsteingettybt3.jpg

 

HA HA! Losers!!!

[Tyrant]

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/2006/02/08/5P95MqWW.jpg

[TruffleShuffle]

poor murton is wasting his prime years being the 5th OF/shuttle guy to iowa. is there anyone who truly doubts he could be a starting major league outfielder?

 

i do, to some extent. he can be a starting major league outfielder for an average or bad team; the cubs aspire to be better than that, and it's understandable if they regard him as a 4th outfielder. however, to regard a player like murton as a 4th outfielder, you have to develop some of your own low-priced talent unless you are a team like the yankees, and can afford big money players at each position. if you can develop some players who turn into above-average players at their positions (pie, soto hopefully) then a guy like murton is a 4th outfielder. if you can't, then you probably need to use a resource like murton as a starter, and direct your funds toward other positions of need.

[TruffleShuffle]

a thread about bad gm's should also include this man:

 

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/18/181972.jpg

[UK1679666180]

poor murton is wasting his prime years being the 5th OF/shuttle guy to iowa. is there anyone who truly doubts he could be a starting major league outfielder?

 

i do, to some extent. he can be a starting major league outfielder for an average or bad team; the cubs aspire to be better than that, and it's understandable if they regard him as a 4th outfielder. however, to regard a player like murton as a 4th outfielder, you have to develop some of your own low-priced talent unless you are a team like the yankees, and can afford big money players at each position. if you can develop some players who turn into above-average players at their positions (pie, soto hopefully) then a guy like murton is a 4th outfielder. if you can't, then you probably need to use a resource like murton as a starter, and direct your funds toward other positions of need.

 

Agreed.

 

While he could start on some teams right now in LF, having him out there as your everyday LF'er means that you have to upgrade that position. It says something about a player when a player's salary is as vital as his abilities as far as why he is important to a club.

 

He doesn't well enough compared to most starting LF'ers.

[Flames24Rulz]

http://www.baseballdigestdaily.com/audioblog/uploaded_images/20040207DSlittlefield_450-738689.jpg

 

Hello friend. Glad to have you aboard, Dave.

[Tracer Bullet]

poor murton is wasting his prime years being the 5th OF/shuttle guy to iowa. is there anyone who truly doubts he could be a starting major league outfielder?

 

i do, to some extent. he can be a starting major league outfielder for an average or bad team; the cubs aspire to be better than that, and it's understandable if they regard him as a 4th outfielder. however, to regard a player like murton as a 4th outfielder, you have to develop some of your own low-priced talent unless you are a team like the yankees, and can afford big money players at each position. if you can develop some players who turn into above-average players at their positions (pie, soto hopefully) then a guy like murton is a 4th outfielder. if you can't, then you probably need to use a resource like murton as a starter, and direct your funds toward other positions of need.

 

Agreed.

 

While he could start on some teams right now in LF, having him out there as your everyday LF'er means that you have to upgrade that position. It says something about a player when a player's salary is as vital as his abilities as far as why he is important to a club.

 

He doesn't well enough compared to most starting LF'ers.

 

I always struggle with this analysis. Each of the last 2 years, Murton has posted an OPS above .900 in the 2nd half. He struggled badly in the first half of last year, but he had a ton of PH appearances in the first half and he was just not a good PH (name me all the great 25-year-old PHs though). He's done well in the minors, except for a few games in A ball right after he was traded to the Cubs. Seems to get better every year and posted .900+ OPS in AA and AAA at ages 23-25. Yes, he wasn't a great 24-year-old LF in his first full year in the majors, though he was very good in the 2nd half of that season. Struggled in a spot-starting role as a 25-year-old last year, but again played very well down the stretch.

 

What is it about those facts that screams "not good enough to start in the majors" exactly?

[UK1679666180]

Murton is likely a .270 EqA type of hitter or .285-290/.345-350/.445-.450 type of hitter, he's likely to hover around that .800 OPS mark. That's better than some of the LF'ers around, but it's not something sought after beyond a cheap salary.

[nilodnayr]

The biggest problem I have with this is the choice to carry 12 pitchers. I think we'd have a better team with Murton on the bench and an 11-man pitching staff.

 

With Marquis and Dempster in the rotation, we're going to need a 12-man staff.

 

I don't think so. Lieber is stretched out enough to pitch 3-4 innings in mop up if needed. If Marshall is on the staff, he also should be able to do more than an inning. Furthermore, we have enough arms with major league experience at Iowa that we can just shuttle them back and forth if the bullpen gets over worked. I think having the extra bat on the bench would be of greater value than the arm in the pen.

 

Exactly. There are going to be off days and rain outs in the first few weeks. Everybody is going in fresh. The worst that can happen is you realize in two weeks you need another arm, then you call somebody up. But there's no reason why you can't get by with 5 starters and 6 relievers right now.

 

Tandem start 2 of Lieber, Dempster and Marquis.

[Roast]

Pretty sure it'd be a shorter list to list good GM's

[TruffleShuffle]

Murton is likely a .270 EqA type of hitter or .285-290/.345-350/.445-.450 type of hitter, he's likely to hover around that .800 OPS mark. That's better than some of the LF'ers around, but it's not something sought after beyond a cheap salary.

 

i agree. the biggest problem IMO is that he hasn't added any loft to his swing. unless you've got blazing speed, you simply aren't going to be a very productive player while hitting 50-60% of your balls in play on the ground.

[weis21]

a thread about bad gm's should also include this man:

 

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/18/181972.jpg

 

man has jay buhner aged.

[davearm2]

Look this is very simple. The team you propose, with Murton in LF and no Soriano, would win fewer games than the one Hendry's built, with Soriano in LF and Murton in limbo..

 

What you're doing is excusing all of Hendry's past mistakes by saying he had to get Soriano. Hendry never had to get Soriano. This should have been a 90-win team years ago. If Hendry was any good at seeing the value of his assets, and could plan beyond today, he wouldn't have been in the position he was in when he grossly overpaid for Soriano. He could have easily fit Murton into a championship caliber team a long time ago if he wasn't just so incredibly incompetent.

 

Instead, he throws good money after bad by continually forcing himself to cover up his own mistakes with bigger and more expensive ones.

I'm not trying to excuse all of Hendry's past mistakes.

 

What I'm trying to do is shift the focus away from Hendry's general merits as a GM, and keep it focused on Murton's career path with the Cubs specifically.

 

I'll say it again -- Murton is a good ballplayer, a legit starting LF in this league, and a guy that's very likeable to boot.

 

But one thing he's not is a guy that keeps you from pursuing the premiere free agent in baseball, especially when you're coming off of a disastrous season, as the Cubs were after the 2006 season.

 

Now is Hendry largely to blame for the disaster? Of course he is.

 

Nevertheless, the course of action he chose at that time, given the mess he was complicit in creating, was not only understandable but probably correct as well -- the proof is in the pudding as they say, and in 2007, Soriano was instrumental in the Cubs rebounding all the way from 90 losses to the postseason. Had he passed on Soriano to go with Murton, the Cubs are watching the NLC champ Brewers in the playoffs last year.

 

As was suggested by another poster, declining to pursue Soriano because of Murton's presence would be directly comparable to the decisionmaking that led to the Cubs passing on Tejada because of Alex Gonzalez, passing on Beltran because of Corey Patterson, and passing on Furcal because of, uh, who exactly?

 

So many here were so thrilled to be rid of that mindset with MacPhail's departure, yet here's the same philosophy being preached once again.

 

The bottom line is if you want to break the padlock off of the wallet and go get impact players in free agency, then "complimentary" players like Murton are going to be victims. The alternative is to pass on the impact guys, go with the complimentary guys, and watch October baseball on TV.

[brinoch]

I'd rather have had Murton-Beltran-Vlad than Soriano-Pie-Fukudome.

[davearm2]

I'd rather have had Murton-Beltran-Vlad than Soriano-Pie-Fukudome.

I wish the sort of pay-up-for-top-talent approach that led to the Cubs signing Soriano had been implemented 5 years ago too.

[NCCubFan]

Murton should be playing LF, with Soriano or Fukudome in CF and the other in RF.

Wrong. You left out Pie.

[Tracer Bullet]

Look this is very simple. The team you propose, with Murton in LF and no Soriano, would win fewer games than the one Hendry's built, with Soriano in LF and Murton in limbo..

 

What you're doing is excusing all of Hendry's past mistakes by saying he had to get Soriano. Hendry never had to get Soriano. This should have been a 90-win team years ago. If Hendry was any good at seeing the value of his assets, and could plan beyond today, he wouldn't have been in the position he was in when he grossly overpaid for Soriano. He could have easily fit Murton into a championship caliber team a long time ago if he wasn't just so incredibly incompetent.

 

Instead, he throws good money after bad by continually forcing himself to cover up his own mistakes with bigger and more expensive ones.

I'm not trying to excuse all of Hendry's past mistakes.

 

What I'm trying to do is shift the focus away from Hendry's general merits as a GM, and keep it focused on Murton's career path with the Cubs specifically.

 

I'll say it again -- Murton is a good ballplayer, a legit starting LF in this league, and a guy that's very likeable to boot.

 

But one thing he's not is a guy that keeps you from pursuing the premiere free agent in baseball, especially when you're coming off of a disastrous season, as the Cubs were after the 2006 season.

 

Now is Hendry largely to blame for the disaster? Of course he is.

 

Nevertheless, the course of action he chose at that time, given the mess he was complicit in creating, was not only understandable but probably correct as well -- the proof is in the pudding as they say, and in 2007, Soriano was instrumental in the Cubs rebounding all the way from 90 losses to the postseason. Had he passed on Soriano to go with Murton, the Cubs are watching the NLC champ Brewers in the playoffs last year.

 

As was suggested by another poster, declining to pursue Soriano because of Murton's presence would be directly comparable to the decisionmaking that led to the Cubs passing on Tejada because of Alex Gonzalez, passing on Beltran because of Corey Patterson, and passing on Furcal because of, uh, who exactly?

 

So many here were so thrilled to be rid of that mindset with MacPhail's departure, yet here's the same philosophy being preached once again.

 

The bottom line is if you want to break the padlock off of the wallet and go get impact players in free agency, then "complimentary" players like Murton are going to be victims. The alternative is to pass on the impact guys, go with the complimentary guys, and watch October baseball on TV.

 

I'll remind you that this path started when you suggested that Murton's demotion was a result of coincidence and not Hendry's decisions.

 

I've never said Murton should prevent you from signing the premiere FA. Though it would be nice if that premiere FA were actually elite or at least great. When the premiere FA is wildly overpaid for what he brings to the table and his age, it's having a complimentary player like Murton at the same position that allows you to pass on him and better allocate your resources. Of course, you can only pass on him if you haven't spent the last 5 years making horrible decisions about how to build a baseball team. B/c if Hendry hadn't done that, we wouldn't need Soriano - or at least hopefully Hendry wouldn't think we needed him - and we'd have a lot more money to spend on a lot better players where we have no useful alternative (for the last several years, CF, SS, and C w/ the exception of Barret's few good/really good years, SP would be a good one this year).

[YearofDaCubs]

Now Lou is saying the "catch the ball" crap.

 

"One thing I do like about our team is we're going to catch the ball," Piniella said. "This year we're encouraged about our defensive thing."

[Tyrant]

Now Lou is saying the "catch the ball" crap.

 

"One thing I do like about our team is we're going to catch the ball," Piniella said. "This year we're encouraged about our defensive thing."

 

That's not really "crap." He's just saying he likes the team's defense, and that's a good thing. This isn't like when Hendry said he wanted to find players who can "catch the ball."

 

I don't see any reason to jump on Lou for this comment. Defense is a huge part of preventing runs.