Cedeno Over Cintron / Fontenot Over Murton - Paul Sullivan

[Tyrant]

 

It's not the high cost that bothers smart people, it's the very inefficient use of that high cost that results in nothing but mediocrity that bothers smart people.

 

So I'm dumb?

 

Personal attack. Someone ban this guy.

[Tracer Bullet]

is there anyone who truly doubts he could be a starting major league outfielder?

 

Evidently every front office guy in baseball. Hendry has been dangling him all offseason, and no one seems to be in any hurry to take him off his hands.

 

You sure he's been dangling him? I get the feeling Hendry may have wanted a replacement 4th OF before he really started offering Murton around.

[reds44]

Cedeno and Fotnenot over Murton is beyond stupid.

[Tracer Bullet]

Look this is very simple. The team you propose, with Murton in LF and no Soriano, would win fewer games than the one Hendry's built, with Soriano in LF and Murton in limbo..

 

What you're doing is excusing all of Hendry's past mistakes by saying he had to get Soriano. Hendry never had to get Soriano. This should have been a 90-win team years ago. If Hendry was any good at seeing the value of his assets, and could plan beyond today, he wouldn't have been in the position he was in when he grossly overpaid for Soriano. He could have easily fit Murton into a championship caliber team a long time ago if he wasn't just so incredibly incompetent.

 

Instead, he throws good money after bad by continually forcing himself to cover up his own mistakes with bigger and more expensive ones.

 

Thank you - this is exactly it. As I stated multiple times - Soriano is but one example of mismanagement. If not for the previous mistakes, we wouldn't have had to overspend for a very good, but not elite LF. We could have used Murton b/c we would have had other very good or elite pieces at other positions (CF, SS, etc). We also wouldn't have 2/5 of our rotation consist of Marquis, Lieber or Dempster.

[brinoch]

 

It's not the high cost that bothers smart people, it's the very inefficient use of that high cost that results in nothing but mediocrity that bothers smart people.

 

So I'm dumb?

 

Personal attack. Someone ban this guy.

 

Give me a break.

[Burtonbell]

 

It's not the high cost that bothers smart people, it's the very inefficient use of that high cost that results in nothing but mediocrity that bothers smart people.

 

So I'm dumb?

 

Personal attack. Someone ban this guy.

 

 

:rotfl:

[Exile on Waveland]

is there anyone who truly doubts he could be a starting major league outfielder?

 

Not for a championship-caliber team.

I'm not going to go to the trouble of finding the stats because it's not worth my time, but that's just plain wrong.

 

Why?

 

He's a poor defender who doesn't hit right-handed pitching very well. He's a fine platoon guy or fourth OF, but no good team should want him getting 600 at bats.

 

Because it's basically a guarantee that worse players have started on championship teams, even at the corner outfield positions. It probably happened very recently, too.

[Tyrant]

 

It's not the high cost that bothers smart people, it's the very inefficient use of that high cost that results in nothing but mediocrity that bothers smart people.

 

So I'm dumb?

 

Personal attack. Someone ban this guy.

 

 

:rotfl:

 

He made me feel bad!!!!!!!

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

The biggest problem I have with this is the choice to carry 12 pitchers. I think we'd have a better team with Murton on the bench and an 11-man pitching staff.

[Soul]

I agree. Someone ban goony right the hell now. :P

[Flames24Rulz]

The biggest problem I have with this is the choice to carry 12 pitchers. I think we'd have a better team with Murton on the bench and an 11-man pitching staff.

 

With Marquis and Dempster in the rotation, we're going to need a 12-man staff.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

It's not the high cost that bothers smart people, it's the very inefficient use of that high cost that results in nothing but mediocrity that bothers smart people.

 

So I'm dumb?

 

Personal attack. Someone ban this guy.

 

You aren't bothered by high cost mediocrity?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

The biggest problem I have with this is the choice to carry 12 pitchers. I think we'd have a better team with Murton on the bench and an 11-man pitching staff.

 

With Marquis and Dempster in the rotation, we're going to need a 12-man staff.

 

I don't think so. Lieber is stretched out enough to pitch 3-4 innings in mop up if needed. If Marshall is on the staff, he also should be able to do more than an inning. Furthermore, we have enough arms with major league experience at Iowa that we can just shuttle them back and forth if the bullpen gets over worked. I think having the extra bat on the bench would be of greater value than the arm in the pen.

[jersey cubs fan]

The biggest problem I have with this is the choice to carry 12 pitchers. I think we'd have a better team with Murton on the bench and an 11-man pitching staff.

 

With Marquis and Dempster in the rotation, we're going to need a 12-man staff.

 

I don't think so. Lieber is stretched out enough to pitch 3-4 innings in mop up if needed. If Marshall is on the staff, he also should be able to do more than an inning. Furthermore, we have enough arms with major league experience at Iowa that we can just shuttle them back and forth if the bullpen gets over worked. I think having the extra bat on the bench would be of greater value than the arm in the pen.

 

Exactly. There are going to be off days and rain outs in the first few weeks. Everybody is going in fresh. The worst that can happen is you realize in two weeks you need another arm, then you call somebody up. But there's no reason why you can't get by with 5 starters and 6 relievers right now.

[bhogg]

I think it's too easy to say "Hendry is bad because he signed Soriano."

 

The one thing we don't know is what Hendry's actual options were. Who else was realistically available to him as opposed to Soriano. Honestly, we don't win the Central last year without Soriano.

 

 

 

I'm like everyone else and get caught up in the bashing of the GM and manager, but I do try and remind myself that we have a very very limited knowledge of what's going on.

[wilk]

But there's no reason why you can't get by with 5 starters and 6 relievers right now.

 

Who are you counting out? Hart?

 

I don't see a reason to carry Murton as a 5th OF and he hasn't been a very good pinch hitter. If you can't get a good deal for him now, play him every day at Iowa and let him put up some monster numbers in the PCL. Unfortunate for him maybe, but certainly better for his trade value than hitting .225 through 30 at-bats a month.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think it's too easy to say "Hendry is bad because he signed Soriano."

 

The one thing we don't know is what Hendry's actual options were. Who else was realistically available to him as opposed to Soriano. Honestly, we don't win the Central last year without Soriano.

 

 

 

I'm like everyone else and get caught up in the bashing of the GM and manager, but I do try and remind myself that we have a very very limited knowledge of what's going on.

 

Who is saying that?

 

Hendry is bad because 5 years in and he's barely managed to field a mediocre squad. The problem is he put himself into a position where he felt he had to sign Soriano. The way you phrase it suggest Hendry was put into a tough spot by somebody else's actions, as if he inherited some poorly constructed team after the 2006 season and decided he had to make an early splash with Soriano. It ignores the fact that he's been very much involved in the organization since 94, and closely attached to all transactions since 2000.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Hendry put himself in the position where he needed to sign Soriano for that contract by ignoring options like Vlad, Beltran, Tejeda, and others who would have been ideal fits when they were free agents.

[JeffH]

Hendry put himself in the position where he needed to sign Soriano for that contract by ignoring options like Vlad, Beltran, Tejeda, and others who would have been ideal fits when they were free agents.

 

While Hendry is MLB's worst GM, we should probably be fair to him and acknowledge the possibility that The Sweater Vest Kid prohibited him from making the sort of commitment needed to sign those guys.

[UK1679666180]

Dempster is going to struggle beyond 5 since his pitch count will likely be around 100, Marquis is likely to be up and down, same thing w/Zambrano and Hill.

 

They're sticking with a 5 man rotation thru April.

 

Lou isn't going to micromanage these guys as far as double-switches, had they left Murton on the roster, Johnson could've been the double-switch option for Pie and Murton could've been the RH'ed bat off the bench. Lee isn't going to be double-switched & Johnson would come in Fukudome vs. a tough Lh'er, so Ward is the main LH'ed bat off the bench. This is why leaving Murton off the roster is the main mistake as Cedeno becomes the next RH'ed bat off the bench. They aren't likely to double switch Theriot while he hits leadoff as well as Derosa for Fontenot, Fontenot can play 2B, SS, and 3B and should've been in that role in case of an injury.

 

Had they left Murton on the roster, they could've left with a productive 5 man bench.

[NewUserName]

I think it's too easy to say "Hendry is bad because he signed Soriano."

 

The one thing we don't know is what Hendry's actual options were. Who else was realistically available to him as opposed to Soriano. Honestly, we don't win the Central last year without Soriano.

 

 

 

I'm like everyone else and get caught up in the bashing of the GM and manager, but I do try and remind myself that we have a very very limited knowledge of what's going on.

 

 

Soriano was the best available. The problem is that the Cubs are trying to win a crappy division instead of winning a World Series. Truthfully I am pretty sure almost any GM can outspend the NL Central right now and win with the Cubs. However they are not even close to competing with the Tigers, Indians, Red Sox, Angels, and Yankees. Truthfully the Cubs are not even better than the White Sox. I dont think players like Murton will help you compete with these teams. However at least he isnt making 18 mill. while being a middle of the road LFer. So its not so much of who is better. The question is could the Cubs have been more patient and found a better player at a position of bigger weakness to sign with that money? Maybe not last offseason but this offseason or some sort of trade maybe.

 

We arent outspending the Red Sox and Yankees and we dont produce players through our system as well as they do. How are we ever going to beat them? Worse of all we give out too many slaps on the back for being the worse team in the playoffs last year. So yes I would just assume we had a $48 mill payrole and were playing Matt Murton in left. At least we would have more flexibility to actually try to win a World Series. As opposed to this $120 million pile of mediocrity with very little room to improve.

[Outshined_One]

You aren't bothered by high cost mediocrity?

 

Isn't that the definition of being a Cubs fan?

[Little Slide Rooter]

Why not not send Murton to Minnesota for Lahey? They can use all the help they can get.

[CUBZ99]

I think it's too easy to say "Hendry is bad because he signed Soriano."

 

The one thing we don't know is what Hendry's actual options were. Who else was realistically available to him as opposed to Soriano. Honestly, we don't win the Central last year without Soriano.

 

 

 

I'm like everyone else and get caught up in the bashing of the GM and manager, but I do try and remind myself that we have a very very limited knowledge of what's going on.

 

 

Soriano was the best available. The problem is that the Cubs are trying to win a crappy division instead of winning a World Series. Truthfully I am pretty sure almost any GM can outspend the NL Central right now and win with the Cubs. However they are not even close to competing with the Tigers, Indians, Red Sox, Angels, and Yankees. Truthfully the Cubs are not even better than the White Sox. I dont think players like Murton will help you compete with these teams. However at least he isnt making 18 mill. while being a middle of the road LFer. So its not so much of who is better. The question is could the Cubs have been more patient and found a better player at a position of bigger weakness to sign with that money? Maybe not last offseason but this offseason or some sort of trade maybe.

 

We arent outspending the Red Sox and Yankees and we dont produce players through our system as well as they do. How are we ever going to beat them? Worse of all we give out too many slaps on the back for being the worse team in the playoffs last year. So yes I would just assume we had a $48 mill payrole and were playing Matt Murton in left. At least we would have more flexibility to actually try to win a World Series. As opposed to this $120 million pile of mediocrity with very little room to improve.

 

That is a ridiculous statement. You must have forgotten already that the Cubs were one of the hottest teams in baseball over the second half of last year, and many people were predicting that they would go to the World Series when the playoffs started. The fact they got swept by the Diamondbacks was unfortunate, but even a great GM can't prevent his team from slumping at any given time.

 

I'm not saying Hendry is a great GM, but he is far from terrible. In regard to your waiting for the right person, Jim Hendry is probably like the rest of us and doesn't have a crystal ball to tell him which players are going to want to come to the Cubs. We have found out over the last few years, not every player in MLB fantacizes about being a Cub or playing in Chicago. That leaves Hendry with option to take a player that wants to come or sit around and wait for players that may never come.

 

In regard to Murton, sure it sucks for him personally that he got sent down to AAA. The fact that he is just a call up away is a great thing for the organization to have. Most people complaining about this move are saying he is a Major league ready OF, etc..... They should be ecstatic, that if Soriano or Fukudome is out for a prolonged period that Murton will be able to fill in and according to those people the Cubs lose little production. Sounds like a nice problem to have.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

Hendry put himself in the position where he needed to sign Soriano for that contract by ignoring options like Vlad, Beltran, Tejeda, and others who would have been ideal fits when they were free agents.

 

While Hendry is MLB's worst GM, .

hi

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2007/10/01/QuID8a3t.jpg