HAPPY MITCHELL REPORT DAY!!!!!!!! Clemens named.

[dougdescenzo]

In all honesty and with (almost) all my sosa love aside, i think it's possible that he didn't do roids. Yes his body Hulked up but he also went from being a mal-nourished dirt-poor kid to being a millionaire with access to extensive training programs and workout facilities and according to everything I've ever read - he basically lived in th gym.

 

Anyway, He wasn't named in the report and he has yet to have anything close to solid damning evidence put out against him so - until he does - he's clean to me.

 

 

All that said, it still seems like it was a way of life at that time in baseball so even if he did i suppose it's not that surprising.

 

I've heard that Sosa spent more time in the gym than any other player.

 

So what? Have you ever known a steroid user? That's much of the point of steroids. You're able to workout hard for long periods of time but recover quicker and make gains that you can't make naturally.

 

As far as his diet and economics, do you guys not realize how many players have come from the Dominican, Venezuela, etc. and grew up dirt poor?

 

Seriously if you want to continue to believe Sosa didn't use, that's your own thing. But those are two of the stupidest excuses I've ever heard.

 

Supposing Sosa never touched a weight before coming over to the U.S. and making it to the majors it's entirely possible that he could have gained over 20 pounds of lean muscle in his first year of lifting alone. Throw in 15 pounds the next year and say 10 the next that's 45 pounds of muscle mass in three years which is entirely possible for a first time lifter with good genetics and access to the best nutrition and legal supplements.

[Omar]

Hahaha.. Your "Kent" is on the list. You know, the same "Kent" that showed up late 2004.

[ottawacubbie]

I didn't see this anywhere else, but 13 mentions of the Chicago Cubs and 6 of the White Sox.

 

Yankees got 43 and Red Sox got 37. Damn East Coast Bias!! :-({|=

[dougdescenzo]

And poor Larry Bigbie, the best player to come out of Ball State University will now simply be known as a huge snitch.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

Why isn't Raffy on the list?

 

Viagra is still legal in MLB?

[UMFan83]

I am 32 years old. I designed what I would call a modest workout program for myself this April (around a 2 hour workout 3 times a week plus playing soccer on Sundays). When I started, I was in decent running shape for soccer, but betrayed by several years of playing goalie -- I weighed 175 with about 24% body fat. In 5 months I was at 170 with a 13% body fat.

 

I gained more than 14 pounds of muscle in 5 months. If I had more time and a trainer to really help focus me, I could have gained more muscle than that. My arms, chest and legs are noticeably larger. Any baseball player who wasn't bulked up already could easily undertake this relatively easy regimen and see similar results. All it takes is a little time. And in the offseason, they all have plenty of time.

 

I don't know about that. These people are going from bulked up athlete to extremely bulked up athlete with dramatic changes, not from "casual soccer player" to bulked up person.

 

http://www.j-fam.org/rjjracin/PC1/Sosa_Donruss_RC.JPG

Look at Sosa's muscles here, he looks like he already has solid defined muscles. The type of muscles that have been bulked up from at least a year or two of solid weight training.

 

Since about 1995-1996, his body frame exploded. Its not like he went from couch potato to working out 5 days a week around that timeframe. He went from conditioned muscular athlete to humongous bulked up beast.

 

Just my opinion. Anyone who entertains the idea that Sosa didn't use steroids is fooling themselves. Just because some guy went around and talked to BALCO, a Mets clubhouse attendant and a handful of players and didn't name Sosa doesn't mean he is any less likely to have done steroids. In fact, a member of the team Sosa played on during the PEAK of his alleged steroid years mentioned witnessing multiple teammates inject steroids. Why didn't he name the players? Maybe he was trying to protect the integrity of a big named player who set numerous records the year before? Just speculation.

[dougdescenzo]

I am 32 years old. I designed what I would call a modest workout program for myself this April (around a 2 hour workout 3 times a week plus playing soccer on Sundays). When I started, I was in decent running shape for soccer, but betrayed by several years of playing goalie -- I weighed 175 with about 24% body fat. In 5 months I was at 170 with a 13% body fat.

 

I gained more than 14 pounds of muscle in 5 months. If I had more time and a trainer to really help focus me, I could have gained more muscle than that. My arms, chest and legs are noticeably larger. Any baseball player who wasn't bulked up already could easily undertake this relatively easy regimen and see similar results. All it takes is a little time. And in the offseason, they all have plenty of time.

 

I don't know about that. These people are going from bulked up athlete to extremely bulked up athlete with dramatic changes, not from "casual soccer player" to bulked up person.

 

http://www.j-fam.org/rjjracin/PC1/Sosa_Donruss_RC.JPG

Look at Sosa's muscles here, he looks like he already has solid defined muscles. The type of muscles that have been bulked up from at least a year or two of solid weight training.

 

Since about 1995-1996, his body frame exploded. Its not like he went from couch potato to working out 5 days a week around that timeframe. He went from conditioned muscular athlete to humongous bulked up beast.

 

Just my opinion. Anyone who entertains the idea that Sosa didn't use steroids is fooling themselves.

 

The only muscles you can see in that picture are his forearms and his face. How can you determine anything from that?

[cubbyvirus00]

I am 32 years old. I designed what I would call a modest workout program for myself this April (around a 2 hour workout 3 times a week plus playing soccer on Sundays). When I started, I was in decent running shape for soccer, but betrayed by several years of playing goalie -- I weighed 175 with about 24% body fat. In 5 months I was at 170 with a 13% body fat.

 

I gained more than 14 pounds of muscle in 5 months. If I had more time and a trainer to really help focus me, I could have gained more muscle than that. My arms, chest and legs are noticeably larger. Any baseball player who wasn't bulked up already could easily undertake this relatively easy regimen and see similar results. All it takes is a little time. And in the offseason, they all have plenty of time.

 

I don't know about that. These people are going from bulked up athlete to extremely bulked up athlete with dramatic changes, not from "casual soccer player" to bulked up person.

 

http://www.j-fam.org/rjjracin/PC1/Sosa_Donruss_RC.JPG

Look at Sosa's muscles here, he looks like he already has solid defined muscles. The type of muscles that have been bulked up from at least a year or two of solid weight training.

 

Since about 1995-1996, his body frame exploded. Its not like he went from couch potato to working out 5 days a week around that timeframe. He went from conditioned muscular athlete to humongous bulked up beast.

 

Just my opinion. Anyone who entertains the idea that Sosa didn't use steroids is fooling themselves.

 

The only muscles you can see in that picture are his forearms and his face. How can you determine anything from that?

 

 

Not true. If you look at that photo with 3d glasses, you can see EVERYTHING.

 

:roll: :roll:

[mfische5]

Why isn't Raffy on the list?

 

Viagra is still legal in MLB?

 

I mentioned this earlier...i find it very interesting that Tejada is on the list and that Raffy isn't.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

Why isn't Raffy on the list?

 

Viagra is still legal in MLB?

 

I mentioned this earlier...i find it very interesting that Tejada is on the list and that Raffy isn't.

 

Well I guess you can say Raffy is a very hard person to track down.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

If you want to know what the report says, you can download it on the ESPN site. If you have adobe, then you can search the document for a name and find all references to that name in the report.

 

For example, Sosa's name is in the report. Here is it what it says...

 

(I sent similar letters with specific questions to lawyers for Barry Bonds,

Rafael Palmeiro, Sammy Sosa, and Gary Sheffield, none of whom provided answers to my

questions either.)

 

So, to say this report implicates Sosa in any way is a fallacy.

[UMFan83]

I am 32 years old. I designed what I would call a modest workout program for myself this April (around a 2 hour workout 3 times a week plus playing soccer on Sundays). When I started, I was in decent running shape for soccer, but betrayed by several years of playing goalie -- I weighed 175 with about 24% body fat. In 5 months I was at 170 with a 13% body fat.

 

I gained more than 14 pounds of muscle in 5 months. If I had more time and a trainer to really help focus me, I could have gained more muscle than that. My arms, chest and legs are noticeably larger. Any baseball player who wasn't bulked up already could easily undertake this relatively easy regimen and see similar results. All it takes is a little time. And in the offseason, they all have plenty of time.

 

I don't know about that. These people are going from bulked up athlete to extremely bulked up athlete with dramatic changes, not from "casual soccer player" to bulked up person.

 

http://www.j-fam.org/rjjracin/PC1/Sosa_Donruss_RC.JPG

Look at Sosa's muscles here, he looks like he already has solid defined muscles. The type of muscles that have been bulked up from at least a year or two of solid weight training.

 

Since about 1995-1996, his body frame exploded. Its not like he went from couch potato to working out 5 days a week around that timeframe. He went from conditioned muscular athlete to humongous bulked up beast.

 

Just my opinion. Anyone who entertains the idea that Sosa didn't use steroids is fooling themselves.

 

The only muscles you can see in that picture are his forearms and his face. How can you determine anything from that?

 

Fine

 

http://njsportspromotions.com/SosaToppsrookie.jpg

 

By no means is he jacked, but he's obviously been in the weight room for an extended amount of time.

[Wheelimus]

Funny thing is, with Sammy not being named (even though I tend to think he at least did something more than lift weights back home during the offseason) he'll probably make the HOF long before McGwire or Bonds get in there.

[dougdescenzo]

By no means is he jacked, but he's obviously been in the weight room for an extended amount of time.

 

Again, I have no idea what you see that makes it look obvious.

[Andy]

And poor Larry Bigbie, the best player to come out of Ball State University will now simply be known as a huge snitch.

We've now got a steroid snitch in Bigbie and one of the more disappointing #1 draft picks in recent memory in Bryan Bullington.

 

Go Cardinals!!!

[Sammy Sofa]

That card only makes me want to punish Sammy for Soul-Glo abuse.

[Omar]

Ah. Good ole' Selig's press conference is going on.

[Outshined_One]

The sheer amount of snark in this thread is awesome.

 

Thanks for the laughs, guys. :D

[brinoch]

I am 32 years old. I designed what I would call a modest workout program for myself this April (around a 2 hour workout 3 times a week plus playing soccer on Sundays). When I started, I was in decent running shape for soccer, but betrayed by several years of playing goalie -- I weighed 175 with about 24% body fat. In 5 months I was at 170 with a 13% body fat.

 

I gained more than 14 pounds of muscle in 5 months. If I had more time and a trainer to really help focus me, I could have gained more muscle than that. My arms, chest and legs are noticeably larger. Any baseball player who wasn't bulked up already could easily undertake this relatively easy regimen and see similar results. All it takes is a little time. And in the offseason, they all have plenty of time.

 

I don't know about that. These people are going from bulked up athlete to extremely bulked up athlete with dramatic changes, not from "casual soccer player" to bulked up person.

 

Look at Sosa's muscles here, he looks like he already has solid defined muscles. The type of muscles that have been bulked up from at least a year or two of solid weight training.

 

Since about 1995-1996, his body frame exploded. Its not like he went from couch potato to working out 5 days a week around that timeframe. He went from conditioned muscular athlete to humongous bulked up beast.

 

Just my opinion. Anyone who entertains the idea that Sosa didn't use steroids is fooling themselves. Just because some guy went around and talked to BALCO, a Mets clubhouse attendant and a handful of players and didn't name Sosa doesn't mean he is any less likely to have done steroids. In fact, a member of the team Sosa played on during the PEAK of his alleged steroid years mentioned witnessing multiple teammates inject steroids. Why didn't he name the players? Maybe he was trying to protect the integrity of a big named player who set numerous records the year before? Just speculation.

 

I'm not saying that Sosa did or did not use steroids. I don't know. There's certainly no evidence, other than speculation, that he did. What I'm saying is that I built a significant amount of muscle during a time period equivalent to an offseason. I think a player who was in good shape -- but not physically huge -- could add 15-20 pounds during an offseason if he wanted to. I did it and I'm in my 30's.

 

These guys are most certainly stronger in their arms and chest than I was, but I was significantly stronger in my legs than they would be. They can throw a 90 mph fastball. I can kick a ball 60+ mph. My legs are a lot stronger and bigger now than they were 5 months ago.

[The Voice of Reason]

Contrary to popular belief, roids have been banned since long before 2002.

 

The report took issue with assertions that steroids were not banned before the 2002 collective bargaining agreement.

 

They had been covered, it said, since the 1971 drug policy prohibited using any prescription medication without a valid prescription, and were expressly included in the drug policy in 1991.

 

"Steroids have been listed as a prohibited substance under the Major League Baseball drug policy since then," the report said, although no player was disciplined for them until the 2002 labor agreement provided for testing.

 

Just the tip of the iceberg.

 

"We identify some of the players who were caught up in this drive to gain a competitive advantage," the report said. "Other investigations will no doubt turn up more names and fill in more details, but that is unlikely to significantly alter the description of baseball's `steroids era' as set forth in this report."

 

"The illegal use in baseball of these substances also victimize the majority of players who don't use them. We heard from many former players who believe it was grossly unfair that the users were gaining an advantage," Mitchell said.

 

http://

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/12/13/mitchell.news/index.html

[bukie]

Contrary to popular belief, roids have been banned since long before 2002.

 

Banned, yes. There was no penalty policy on steroid use until after 2002, though.

[jersey cubs fan]

Contrary to popular belief, roids have been banned since long before 2002.

 

The report took issue with assertions that steroids were not banned before the 2002 collective bargaining agreement.

 

They had been covered, it said, since the 1971 drug policy prohibited using any prescription medication without a valid prescription, and were expressly included in the drug policy in 1991.

 

"Steroids have been listed as a prohibited substance under the Major League Baseball drug policy since then," the report said, although no player was disciplined for them until the 2002 labor agreement provided for testing.

 

I've pointed that out on numerous occasions but most people prefer the story that steroids used to be legal in baseball.

[Fro]

It's not possible to get that big and maintain the size through a MLB schedule. It'd be one thing if a guy like Sosa was a bodybuilder for a living, but he's got to travel every few days, play a three hour game (plus practices, meetings, breaking down film, etc). For a guy like Sosa you have to add in all the PR stuff, appearances with sick kids, filming Pepsi commercials, etc. You can't lift in a gym 2 hours a day and still do all the above stuff without help.

 

http://www.wisecamel.com/images/Sosa%20B%20and%20A%203.jpg

Edited December 13, 2007 by Fro

[Mugged By Fluffy]

Sosa not being on the list sure doesn't exhonerate him. I mean....several of those who have been busted and are known abusers are not on the list either. You guys mentioned Raffy. There's also Felix Heredia, Manny Alexander(btw...close personal lifelong friend of Sosa), Guillermo Mota. There could be several reasons for not bieng named...

 

lmao at Todd Hundley :lol: :lol:

Edited December 13, 2007 by Mugged By Fluffy

[jersey cubs fan]

Contrary to popular belief, roids have been banned since long before 2002.

 

Banned, yes. There was no penalty policy on steroid use until after 2002, though.

 

The problem was the lacking of testing, not the lack of being able to penalize.