MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[wrigley23]

thanks for the advice but i probably won't use. If you are looking to "pretty up" some posts you may want to help the young man who quoted me a couple posts back & then said I was bashing sammy. I never said anything about sammy.

[Derwood]

i love it when people come here with a chip on their shoulder.

[swordsman]

i love it when people come here with a chip on their shoulder.

 

Almost as fun as those who have grown them here over time. (not you necessarily)

[DenverCubs]

thanks for the advice but i probably won't use. If you are looking to "pretty up" some posts you may want to help the young man who quoted me a couple posts back & then said I was bashing sammy. I never said anything about sammy.

You didn't read that post I guess...

[TheGrinch]

thanks for the advice but i probably won't use. If you are looking to "pretty up" some posts you may want to help the young man who quoted me a couple posts back & then said I was bashing sammy. I never said anything about sammy.

i is sorry that i dont pay attention to all previous post to the nth degree, but i am not paid to comprehend posts and reply to therm in a coherent way. aslo, please stop bashing Smammy.

[fromthestretch]

thanks for the advice but i probably won't use. If you are looking to "pretty up" some posts you may want to help the young man who quoted me a couple posts back & then said I was bashing sammy. I never said anything about sammy.

 

It has nothing to do with "prettying up" posts. It has everything to do with being able to follow the dicussion. When you are responding to posts two pages back, it would help if you would quote it to allow people to better understand your response.

 

Also...I asked this awhile back in another thread and never got a response, so I'll try again. Where are you getting your rankings when you say that Roberts is the "4th best second baseman in baseball?" I ask so I can take a look at the rankings myself because I like reading stuff like that.

 

No one's asking you to be a "professional message board poster," just to provide information to back up your opinions a little bit. Saying that someone is the xth ranked person in baseball at his position is all fine and dandy but does nothing for anyone if they have no idea where you're getting your rankings. It also doesn't help that you once stated he was ranked 5th and now you're saying he's 4th. There's no need to get all riled up when people ask for more information regarding opinions you post.

[Derwood]

thanks for the advice but i probably won't use. If you are looking to "pretty up" some posts you may want to help the young man who quoted me a couple posts back & then said I was bashing sammy. I never said anything about sammy.

 

It has nothing to do with "prettying up" posts. It has everything to do with being able to follow the dicussion. When you are responding to posts two pages back, it would help if you would quote it to allow people to better understand your response.

 

Also...I asked this awhile back in another thread and never got a response, so I'll try again. Where are you getting your rankings when you say that Roberts is the "4th best second baseman in baseball?" I ask so I can take a look at the rankings myself because I like reading stuff like that.

 

No one's asking you to be a "professional message board poster," just to provide information to back up your opinions a little bit. Saying that someone is the xth ranked person in baseball at his position is all fine and dandy but does nothing for anyone if they have no idea where you're getting your rankings. It also doesn't help that you once stated he was ranked 5th and now you're saying he's 4th. There's no need to get all riled up when people ask for more information regarding opinions you post.

 

i'm pretty sure he is looking only at OBP, in which case he'd be wrong

[wrigley23]

I never posted anything about sammy so you have me confused w/ someone else. in regards to roberts, every 2B ranking i've ever seen shows Roberts anywhere from the 3rd best to 6th at worst. I've yet to see DeRosa in the top 20. In regards to the only stat roberts is better than soriano....you can add batting average & steals to OBP. BTW...derosa is being flown back to Chicago for tests. Let's hope for the best for him whether he will be our 2B or not....as a person...my prayers are with him. This only puts more urgency on the situation than was previously there. Not only is DeRosa's health in question...so is Soriano's. There are many holes in this current team. Adding fuko was huge, but IMO is not near enough.

[TheGrinch]

I never posted anything about sammy so you have me confused w/ someone else. in regards to roberts, every 2B ranking i've ever seen shows Roberts anywhere from the 3rd best to 6th at worst. I've yet to see DeRosa in the top 20. In regards to the only stat roberts is better than soriano....you can add batting average & steals to OBP. BTW...derosa is being flown back to Chicago for tests. Let's hope for the best for him whether he will be our 2B or not....as a person...my prayers are with him. This only puts more urgency on the situation than was previously there. Not only is DeRosa's health in question...so is Soriano's. There are many holes in this current team. Adding fuko was huge, but IMO is not near enough.

you might want to take a peak at the OPS rankings, then. aslo, stop bashing on Smammy, plz.

[fromthestretch]

in regards to roberts, every 2B ranking i've ever seen shows Roberts anywhere from the 3rd best to 6th at worst. I've yet to see DeRosa in the top 20. In regards to the only stat roberts is better than soriano....you can add batting average & steals to OBP.

 

And again I ask, where are these rankings? I'm curious if they are fantasy rankings, pre-season rankings, somthing based on projections for 2008. All I want to know is where you're seeing these rankings. I'm not questioning that you saw them, I'd just like to know where. That would allow me to judge the validity for myself.

[Derwood]

I never posted anything about sammy so you have me confused w/ someone else. in regards to roberts, every 2B ranking i've ever seen shows Roberts anywhere from the 3rd best to 6th at worst. I've yet to see DeRosa in the top 20. In regards to the only stat roberts is better than soriano....you can add batting average & steals to OBP. BTW...derosa is being flown back to Chicago for tests. Let's hope for the best for him whether he will be our 2B or not....as a person...my prayers are with him. This only puts more urgency on the situation than was previously there. Not only is DeRosa's health in question...so is Soriano's. There are many holes in this current team. Adding fuko was huge, but IMO is not near enough.

you might want to take a peak at the OPS rankings, then. aslo, stop bashing on Smammy, plz.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/byposition?pos=2B&conference=MLB&year=season_2007&qualified=1&sort=25

 

your OPS rankings

[mul21]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/bypos ... =1&sort=25

 

your OPS rankings

 

Looking at those numbers, I'm curious to know if Kinsler had some ridiculously low BABIP last year.

[David]

Guys. He's not a professional message board poster. He doesn't need to look up stats or pretty up his posts.

[fromthestretch]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/bypos ... =1&sort=25

 

your OPS rankings

 

Looking at those numbers, I'm curious to know if Kinsler had some ridiculously low BABIP last year.

 

.279 BABIP in 2007 for Kinsler. Man, was he bad on the road.

[craig]

Stats-wise, Roberts was 10th in OPS, 5th in OBP.

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=winshares&linesToDisplay=50&season_filter[0]=2007&league_filter[0]=All&pos_filter[0]=2B&Submit=Submit&orderBy=wsp&direction=DESC&page=1

 

In Hardball times win-shares, which attempts to include baserunning, defense, as well as the simple offensive stats, had Roberts as 2nd behind Utley in total win shares (which is a volume stat) and in win-shares-above-bench. In WSP, win-shares-percentage, Roberts scores 3rd behind Utley and Polanco for guys who played 2B regularly.

 

I know the WinShares stuff was a Bill James thing. He's both a smart guy and has been doing saber stuff for a while now, so I assume it's not grossly flawed. But I'm not sure how it compares strengths/weaknesses-wise relative to Pecota or other metrics. Maybe it's got some flaws in it that overvalue Roberts?

 

And obviously those numbers were for Roberts 2007, not Roberts future. Guys who scored below him last year may well outscore him next year or down the road, I understand that.

 

Serious question: what's the spin on the relative merits/demerits of win-shares versus the WARPs, and what's a quick explanation of what WARP-2 and WARP-3 do that WARP-1 overlooks? Also: Prospectus gives Pecota cards and WARP values that are free; is there free source with WARP-2 and WARP-3? I'm sure the WARP-stuff has been discussed a dozen times, but I don't know where.

 

Also, other than Win-Shares and WARP, what other metrics are there that include both defense and baserunning? (Unlike EqA and VORP, for example).

[fibro]

in regards to roberts, every 2B ranking i've ever seen shows Roberts anywhere from the 3rd best to 6th at worst. I've yet to see DeRosa in the top 20. In regards to the only stat roberts is better than soriano....you can add batting average & steals to OBP.

 

And again I ask, where are these rankings? I'm curious if they are fantasy rankings, pre-season rankings, somthing based on projections for 2008. All I want to know is where you're seeing these rankings. I'm not questioning that you saw them, I'd just like to know where. That would allow me to judge the validity for myself.

 

Elias has has Roberts fifth in their rankings. I have no idea how they do their rankings though just stumbled accrossed them.

Chase Utley, Robinson Cano, Placido Polanco, Orlando Hudson then Brian Roberts.

 

http://www.sportscity.com/MLB/Elias-MLB-Rankings-2B-3B-SS/

 

The list includes ss and 3b so you have weed through them.

[fromthestretch]

in regards to roberts, every 2B ranking i've ever seen shows Roberts anywhere from the 3rd best to 6th at worst. I've yet to see DeRosa in the top 20. In regards to the only stat roberts is better than soriano....you can add batting average & steals to OBP.

 

And again I ask, where are these rankings? I'm curious if they are fantasy rankings, pre-season rankings, somthing based on projections for 2008. All I want to know is where you're seeing these rankings. I'm not questioning that you saw them, I'd just like to know where. That would allow me to judge the validity for myself.

 

Elias has has Roberts fifth in their rankings. I have no idea how they do their rankings though just stumbled accrossed them.

Chase Utley, Robinson Cano, Placido Polanco, Orlando Hudson then Brian Roberts.

 

http://www.sportscity.com/MLB/Elias-MLB-Rankings-2B-3B-SS/

 

The list includes ss and 3b so you have weed through them.

 

Interesting. I'll have to look that over.

[JimSorgi]

This only puts more urgency on the situation than was previously there. Not only is DeRosa's health in question...so is Soriano's. There are many holes in this current team. Adding fuko was huge, but IMO is not near enough.

Seriously, why do you keep saying Soriano's health is in question? Where do you find these things?

[CuseCubFan69]

This only puts more urgency on the situation than was previously there. Not only is DeRosa's health in question...so is Soriano's. There are many holes in this current team. Adding fuko was huge, but IMO is not near enough.

Seriously, why do you keep saying Soriano's health is in question? Where do you find these things?

 

I thought I read Lou commenting on Soriano not quite being over his leg injury.

[Derwood]

This only puts more urgency on the situation than was previously there. Not only is DeRosa's health in question...so is Soriano's. There are many holes in this current team. Adding fuko was huge, but IMO is not near enough.

Seriously, why do you keep saying Soriano's health is in question? Where do you find these things?

 

I thought I read Lou commenting on Soriano not quite being over his leg injury.

 

 

this is true. wrigley23 constantly makes it out to be something that will keep soriano from anything but a slow stroll around the basepaths

[David]

This only puts more urgency on the situation than was previously there. Not only is DeRosa's health in question...so is Soriano's. There are many holes in this current team. Adding fuko was huge, but IMO is not near enough.

Seriously, why do you keep saying Soriano's health is in question? Where do you find these things?

 

He's not really wrong about that, although he is exaggerating the importance of it a bit. He also is right in that Lou has suggested he'll move him down in the order if the leg remains an issue.

[Bull]

Please stop hating on Sammy. He done more for this team than NE one evar!!

 

He's the best OF ever in Cubs histroy, and people take it for granted too much.

[PrimeTime]

Orioles owner Peter Angelos apparently didn't like what he was getting from the Cubs for second baseman Brian Roberts. But this trade isn't completely dead. It is believed the Orioles will continue to scout the Cubs during spring training with hopes a deal can be resurrected.

 

The names discussed so far include some combination of pitchers Sean Marshall and Sean Gallagher, outfielder Matt Murton and infielder Ronny Cedeno. The Cubs aren't exactly well-stocked with top prospects once you get past outfielder Felix Pie, but this deal makes too much sense for it not to happen.

 

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/02/25/monday.scoop/1.html

 

 

Angelos, this is Roberts..Not A-Rod..Quit asking for the world for your players...Take Marquis,Murton and 1 more..

[Tyrant]

Please stop hating on Sammy. He done more for this team than NE one evar!!

 

My sarcasm meter is broke, and I can't tell if this is real.

[rawaction]

Orioles owner Peter Angelos apparently didn't like what he was getting from the Cubs for second baseman Brian Roberts. But this trade isn't completely dead. It is believed the Orioles will continue to scout the Cubs during spring training with hopes a deal can be resurrected.

 

The names discussed so far include some combination of pitchers Sean Marshall and Sean Gallagher, outfielder Matt Murton and infielder Ronny Cedeno. The Cubs aren't exactly well-stocked with top prospects once you get past outfielder Felix Pie, but this deal makes too much sense for it not to happen.

 

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/02/25/monday.scoop/1.html

 

 

Angelos, this is Roberts..Not A-Rod..Quit asking for the world for your players...Take Marquis,Murton and 1 more..

 

In defense of Angelos ( :oops: ), he should ask for more than that. Three of those 4 weren't good enough for the Cubs to start over Steve Trachsel, Jacque Jones/Cliff Floyd, and Ryan Theriot/Cesar Izturis.