MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[UMFan83]

Man until like 2 weeks ago, I cared so much about this trade. Now I'm really really meh about the whole thing.

[PrimeTime]

Orioles owner Peter Angelos apparently didn't like what he was getting from the Cubs for second baseman Brian Roberts. But this trade isn't completely dead. It is believed the Orioles will continue to scout the Cubs during spring training with hopes a deal can be resurrected.

 

The names discussed so far include some combination of pitchers Sean Marshall and Sean Gallagher, outfielder Matt Murton and infielder Ronny Cedeno. The Cubs aren't exactly well-stocked with top prospects once you get past outfielder Felix Pie, but this deal makes too much sense for it not to happen.

 

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/02/25/monday.scoop/1.html

 

 

Angelos, this is Roberts..Not A-Rod..Quit asking for the world for your players...Take Marquis,Murton and 1 more..

 

In defense of Angelos ( :oops: ), he should ask for more than that. Three of those 4 weren't good enough for the Cubs to start over Steve Trachsel, Jacque Jones/Cliff Floyd, and Ryan Theriot/Cesar Izturis.

 

 

Im pretty set with anyone theyre looking at besides Gallagher..He has the potential to do something for us this season if he's looking that good and his velocity is up..

[anabiono]

Man until like 2 weeks ago, I cared so much about this trade. Now I'm really really meh about the whole thing.

 

i was with you about a week ago...but now i have that feeling again...i fully believe this will be done in the next two weeks...

 

i think this team will really take off with the addition of BRob...the diversity it give us in allowing derosa to supersub will be very beneficial

[wrigley23]

if you are a rebuilding franchise, why would you trade one of the more accomplished leadoff hitters in baseball w/ a very reasonable 2-yr contract, 30 yrs of age...for anything less than two solid prospects? If I were them, I'd require pie & gallagher. If i'm hendry...i'd be inclined to pull the trigger in the spirit of "give to get".

[JimSorgi]

if you are a rebuilding franchise, why would you trade one of the more accomplished leadoff hitters in baseball w/ a very reasonable 2-yr contract, 30 yrs of age...for anything less than two solid prospects? If I were them, I'd require pie & gallagher. If i'm hendry...i'd be inclined to pull the trigger in the spirit of "give to get".

I'm glad you're not the GM.

[inari]

if you are a rebuilding franchise, why would you trade one of the more accomplished leadoff hitters in baseball w/ a very reasonable 2-yr contract, 30 yrs of age...for anything less than two solid prospects? If I were them, I'd require pie & gallagher. If i'm hendry...i'd be inclined to pull the trigger in the spirit of "give to get".

 

Kenny Williams? Is that you?

[TheGrinch]

if you are a rebuilding franchise, why would you trade one of the more accomplished leadoff hitters in baseball w/ a very reasonable 2-yr contract, 30 yrs of age...for anything less than two solid prospects? If I were them, I'd require pie & gallagher. If i'm hendry...i'd be inclined to pull the trigger in the spirit of "give to get".

i swear if you bash sammy one more time i am going to lose it.

[wrigley23]

sorgi...touche. This franchise has waited 100 yrs. We barely won a division...several NL teams improved in the offseason. The Cub did too...but was it enough? I don't think so. The playoffs were a complete joke. This team has many holes & if it stands pat right now...will not make it to the WS IMO.

[Sterling30]

i swear if you bash sammy one more time i am going to lose it.

 

:lol:

[17 Seconds]

what "facts" would those be? the one where Roberts gets on base 40 points better or the one where Soriano's quad injury that plagued him all of last year is carrying into this year which has alarmed lou piniella to which he stated that if one of the proposed deals gets done that Soriano would move down in the order?

 

Please stop lying. I've listened to the Piniella interview and he never said that. All hew said is that if they made a trade, he'd CONSIDER moving Soriano down.

 

Also, the part about Gallagher was a lie, since he's obviously pitched past AA, and pitched well.

 

Oh, and Roberts also doesnt get on base 40 points higher than Soriano.

[JimSorgi]

sorgi...touche. This franchise has waited 100 yrs. We barely won a division...several NL teams improved in the offseason. The Cub did too...but was it enough? I don't think so. The playoffs were a complete joke. This team has many holes & if it stands pat right now...will not make it to the WS IMO.

Will it really help us if we give up our starting CF and someone who could start for us this year?

[KingCubsFan]

what "facts" would those be? the one where Roberts gets on base 40 points better or the one where Soriano's quad injury that plagued him all of last year is carrying into this year which has alarmed lou piniella to which he stated that if one of the proposed deals gets done that Soriano would move down in the order?

 

Please stop lying. I've listened to the Piniella interview and he never said that. All hew said is that if they made a trade, he'd CONSIDER moving Soriano down.

 

Also, the part about Gallagher was a lie, since he's obviously pitched past AA, and pitched well.

 

Oh, and Roberts also doesnt get on base 40 points higher than Soriano.

Roberts OBP: .377

Soriano: .337

[17 Seconds]

sorgi...touche. This franchise has waited 100 yrs. We barely won a division...several NL teams improved in the offseason. The Cub did too...but was it enough? I don't think so. The playoffs were a complete joke. This team has many holes & if it stands pat right now...will not make it to the WS IMO.

 

How can you possibly make those statements, and then be in favor of overpaying for Roberts? YOU just said that we have lots of holes. You're right. Guess what? Second base is not one of those holes. So, you think it's cool to overpay for a position that doesn't need upgrading, when we clearly have other holes that need to be upgraded to be a legit contender? So what happens if Hendry gives it all up for ROberts. Then what happens when we need a shortstop, starting pitcher, center fielder, or bullpen help at the deadline? We'll have nothing decent to offer in trades at all. Is this really that hard for you to understand?

 

I have a good idea. How about we use our limited trade pieces to upgrade positions that actually need it? Pretty crazy idea, huh?

[17 Seconds]

what "facts" would those be? the one where Roberts gets on base 40 points better or the one where Soriano's quad injury that plagued him all of last year is carrying into this year which has alarmed lou piniella to which he stated that if one of the proposed deals gets done that Soriano would move down in the order?

 

Please stop lying. I've listened to the Piniella interview and he never said that. All hew said is that if they made a trade, he'd CONSIDER moving Soriano down.

 

Also, the part about Gallagher was a lie, since he's obviously pitched past AA, and pitched well.

 

Oh, and Roberts also doesnt get on base 40 points higher than Soriano.

Roberts OBP: .377

Soriano: .337

 

I'm aware of where their numbers were last season. He didn't say "Roberts got on base 40 points higher than Soriano last season", he said "Roberts gets on base 40 points higher than Soriano". Look at the career numbers.

[Springfield_CUBBY]

what "facts" would those be? the one where Roberts gets on base 40 points better or the one where Soriano's quad injury that plagued him all of last year is carrying into this year which has alarmed lou piniella to which he stated that if one of the proposed deals gets done that Soriano would move down in the order?

 

Please stop lying. I've listened to the Piniella interview and he never said that. All hew said is that if they made a trade, he'd CONSIDER moving Soriano down.

 

Also, the part about Gallagher was a lie, since he's obviously pitched past AA, and pitched well.

 

Oh, and Roberts also doesnt get on base 40 points higher than Soriano.

Roberts OBP: .377

Soriano: .337

 

I'm aware of where their numbers were last season. He didn't say "Roberts got on base 40 points higher than Soriano last season", he said "Roberts gets on base 40 points higher than Soriano". Look at the career numbers.

 

OK, come on now . . . I'm enjoying this all as much as anyone - but he's got you here. You called him out, and now it's been proven that he was actually right. Just give him a "touche" and move on . . .

[Outshined_One]

Wrigley made an ambiguous statement. Frankly, either interpretation is reasonable.

 

...crap. I've been reading too much about the Chevron doctrine lately. Friggin' Admin Law...

 

:doh:

[17 Seconds]

what "facts" would those be? the one where Roberts gets on base 40 points better or the one where Soriano's quad injury that plagued him all of last year is carrying into this year which has alarmed lou piniella to which he stated that if one of the proposed deals gets done that Soriano would move down in the order?

 

Please stop lying. I've listened to the Piniella interview and he never said that. All hew said is that if they made a trade, he'd CONSIDER moving Soriano down.

 

Also, the part about Gallagher was a lie, since he's obviously pitched past AA, and pitched well.

 

Oh, and Roberts also doesnt get on base 40 points higher than Soriano.

Roberts OBP: .377

Soriano: .337

 

I'm aware of where their numbers were last season. He didn't say "Roberts got on base 40 points higher than Soriano last season", he said "Roberts gets on base 40 points higher than Soriano". Look at the career numbers.

 

OK, come on now . . . I'm enjoying this all as much as anyone - but he's got you here. You called him out, and now it's been proven that he was actually right. Just give him a "touche" and move on . . .

 

Do you really think I wasn't aware of the OBP stats of those 2 guys last season? Please. With how much this has been debated this offseason, the stats of Roberts/Soriano/Derosa are etched into my mind for eternity.

 

What he said was not an accurate statement. He doesn't "get on base 40 points higher than Soriano". He did last season. What about the season before?

 

Kahlil Greene outhomered Aramis last season. So would it be an accurate statement to say that "Greene hits for more power than Ramirez"? I certainly don't think so.

[Springfield_CUBBY]

what "facts" would those be? the one where Roberts gets on base 40 points better or the one where Soriano's quad injury that plagued him all of last year is carrying into this year which has alarmed lou piniella to which he stated that if one of the proposed deals gets done that Soriano would move down in the order?

 

Please stop lying. I've listened to the Piniella interview and he never said that. All hew said is that if they made a trade, he'd CONSIDER moving Soriano down.

 

Also, the part about Gallagher was a lie, since he's obviously pitched past AA, and pitched well.

 

Oh, and Roberts also doesnt get on base 40 points higher than Soriano.

Roberts OBP: .377

Soriano: .337

 

I'm aware of where their numbers were last season. He didn't say "Roberts got on base 40 points higher than Soriano last season", he said "Roberts gets on base 40 points higher than Soriano". Look at the career numbers.

 

OK, come on now . . . I'm enjoying this all as much as anyone - but he's got you here. You called him out, and now it's been proven that he was actually right. Just give him a "touche" and move on . . .

 

Do you really think I wasn't aware of the OBP stats of those 2 guys last season? Please. With how much this has been debated this offseason, the stats of Roberts/Soriano/Derosa are etched into my mind for eternity.

 

What he said was not an accurate statement. He doesn't "get on base 40 points higher than Soriano". He did last season. What about the season before?

 

Kahlil Greene outhomered Aramis last season. So would it be an accurate statement to say that "Greene hits for more power than Ramirez"? I certainly don't think so.

 

I really don't know what you know . . . but I think I'll go with O_O's line that "either interpretation is reasonable." W23'S claim of fact was backed up with, um . . . FACTS!

[Springfield_CUBBY]

what "facts" would those be? the one where Roberts gets on base 40 points better or the one where Soriano's quad injury that plagued him all of last year is carrying into this year which has alarmed lou piniella to which he stated that if one of the proposed deals gets done that Soriano would move down in the order?

 

Please stop lying. I've listened to the Piniella interview and he never said that. All hew said is that if they made a trade, he'd CONSIDER moving Soriano down.

 

Also, the part about Gallagher was a lie, since he's obviously pitched past AA, and pitched well.

 

Oh, and Roberts also doesnt get on base 40 points higher than Soriano.

Roberts OBP: .377

Soriano: .337

 

I'm aware of where their numbers were last season. He didn't say "Roberts got on base 40 points higher than Soriano last season", he said "Roberts gets on base 40 points higher than Soriano". Look at the career numbers.

 

OK, come on now . . . I'm enjoying this all as much as anyone - but he's got you here. You called him out, and now it's been proven that he was actually right. Just give him a "touche" and move on . . .

 

Do you really think I wasn't aware of the OBP stats of those 2 guys last season? Please. With how much this has been debated this offseason, the stats of Roberts/Soriano/Derosa are etched into my mind for eternity.

 

What he said was not an accurate statement. He doesn't "get on base 40 points higher than Soriano". He did last season. What about the season before?

 

Kahlil Greene outhomered Aramis last season. So would it be an accurate statement to say that "Greene hits for more power than Ramirez"? I certainly don't think so.

 

I really don't know what you know . . . but I think I'll go with O_O's line that "either interpretation is reasonable." W23'S claim of fact was backed up with, um . . . FACTS!

 

and, may I say that I'm honored to finally be in a #-o with someone on this most venerated and historic thread. I'd like to thank my wife, and the academy, and . . .

[17 Seconds]

what "facts" would those be? the one where Roberts gets on base 40 points better or the one where Soriano's quad injury that plagued him all of last year is carrying into this year which has alarmed lou piniella to which he stated that if one of the proposed deals gets done that Soriano would move down in the order?

 

Please stop lying. I've listened to the Piniella interview and he never said that. All hew said is that if they made a trade, he'd CONSIDER moving Soriano down.

 

Also, the part about Gallagher was a lie, since he's obviously pitched past AA, and pitched well.

 

Oh, and Roberts also doesnt get on base 40 points higher than Soriano.

Roberts OBP: .377

Soriano: .337

 

I'm aware of where their numbers were last season. He didn't say "Roberts got on base 40 points higher than Soriano last season", he said "Roberts gets on base 40 points higher than Soriano". Look at the career numbers.

 

OK, come on now . . . I'm enjoying this all as much as anyone - but he's got you here. You called him out, and now it's been proven that he was actually right. Just give him a "touche" and move on . . .

 

Do you really think I wasn't aware of the OBP stats of those 2 guys last season? Please. With how much this has been debated this offseason, the stats of Roberts/Soriano/Derosa are etched into my mind for eternity.

 

What he said was not an accurate statement. He doesn't "get on base 40 points higher than Soriano". He did last season. What about the season before?

 

Kahlil Greene outhomered Aramis last season. So would it be an accurate statement to say that "Greene hits for more power than Ramirez"? I certainly don't think so.

 

I really don't know what you know . . . but I think I'll go with O_O's line that "either interpretation is reasonable." W23'S claim of fact was backed up with, um . . . FACTS!

 

Career OBP numbers

 

Roberts- .351

Soriano- .327

 

.351-.327= .24 (not .40)

 

There, now I backed it up with facts too. Happy?

[David]

BTW, just to further support Wrigley's point...

 

Last 3 years Soriano

 

.333 OBP

 

Last 3 years Roberts

 

.371 OBP

 

38 point difference. And that includes Soriano's career season in 06.

[Bull]

Please stop hating on Sammy. He done more for this team than NE one evar!!

 

My sarcasm meter is broke, and I can't tell if this is real.

 

Then you haven't read many of my posts.

[Bull]

what "facts" would those be? the one where Roberts gets on base 40 points better or the one where Soriano's quad injury that plagued him all of last year is carrying into this year which has alarmed lou piniella to which he stated that if one of the proposed deals gets done that Soriano would move down in the order?

 

Please stop lying. I've listened to the Piniella interview and he never said that. All hew said is that if they made a trade, he'd CONSIDER moving Soriano down.

 

Also, the part about Gallagher was a lie, since he's obviously pitched past AA, and pitched well.

 

Oh, and Roberts also doesnt get on base 40 points higher than Soriano.

Roberts OBP: .377

Soriano: .337

 

I'm aware of where their numbers were last season. He didn't say "Roberts got on base 40 points higher than Soriano last season", he said "Roberts gets on base 40 points higher than Soriano". Look at the career numbers.

 

OK, come on now . . . I'm enjoying this all as much as anyone - but he's got you here. You called him out, and now it's been proven that he was actually right. Just give him a "touche" and move on . . .

 

Do you really think I wasn't aware of the OBP stats of those 2 guys last season? Please. With how much this has been debated this offseason, the stats of Roberts/Soriano/Derosa are etched into my mind for eternity.

 

What he said was not an accurate statement. He doesn't "get on base 40 points higher than Soriano". He did last season. What about the season before?

 

Kahlil Greene outhomered Aramis last season. So would it be an accurate statement to say that "Greene hits for more power than Ramirez"? I certainly don't think so.

 

I really don't know what you know . . . but I think I'll go with O_O's line that "either interpretation is reasonable." W23'S claim of fact was backed up with, um . . . FACTS!

 

 

Please don't feed it. It might grow.

[17 Seconds]

BTW, just to further support Wrigley's point...

 

Last 3 years Soriano

 

.333 OBP

 

Last 3 years Roberts

 

.371 OBP

 

38 point difference. And that includes Soriano's career season in 06.

 

Ugh. Did I ever say that Roberts isn't better at getting on base than Roberts? No, I didn't. He made an extremely ambigous claim that was untrue. If he said "ROberts got on base 40 points higher than Soriano last season" I would have had no problem with is whatsoever, because that is a fact.

 

Anyways, I thinks it's kind of silly to compare the OBP of Roberts and Soriano, when Roberts would be replacing Derosa, and not Alfsonso. Yes, I realize it's because of the leadoff argument, but leadoff is not a position. Second base is a position. Let's say for argument's sake that the Cubs get Roberts, have him hit leadoff, and then next season everybody puts up idnetical numbers to what they did last season (since those are the numbers wrigley23 is clearly discussing anyways). If that's the case, we don't add 40 on base percentage points to the overall lineup, we add 6. How much of an impact switching those points over to the leadoff spot has is open for debate, but people need to stop acting as if we'd be adding a ton of on base percentage to the lineup, because that is false.

[17 Seconds]

what "facts" would those be? the one where Roberts gets on base 40 points better or the one where Soriano's quad injury that plagued him all of last year is carrying into this year which has alarmed lou piniella to which he stated that if one of the proposed deals gets done that Soriano would move down in the order?

 

Please stop lying. I've listened to the Piniella interview and he never said that. All hew said is that if they made a trade, he'd CONSIDER moving Soriano down.

 

Also, the part about Gallagher was a lie, since he's obviously pitched past AA, and pitched well.

 

Oh, and Roberts also doesnt get on base 40 points higher than Soriano.

Roberts OBP: .377

Soriano: .337

 

I'm aware of where their numbers were last season. He didn't say "Roberts got on base 40 points higher than Soriano last season", he said "Roberts gets on base 40 points higher than Soriano". Look at the career numbers.

 

OK, come on now . . . I'm enjoying this all as much as anyone - but he's got you here. You called him out, and now it's been proven that he was actually right. Just give him a "touche" and move on . . .

 

Do you really think I wasn't aware of the OBP stats of those 2 guys last season? Please. With how much this has been debated this offseason, the stats of Roberts/Soriano/Derosa are etched into my mind for eternity.

 

What he said was not an accurate statement. He doesn't "get on base 40 points higher than Soriano". He did last season. What about the season before?

 

Kahlil Greene outhomered Aramis last season. So would it be an accurate statement to say that "Greene hits for more power than Ramirez"? I certainly don't think so.

 

I really don't know what you know . . . but I think I'll go with O_O's line that "either interpretation is reasonable." W23'S claim of fact was backed up with, um . . . FACTS!

 

 

Please don't feed it. It might grow.

 

What might grow? Logic?