MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[David]

Wow you guys are rough. Getting mad at fans for saying "we" as in the cubs. Calm down guys. We have no access to the front office but we are dying to know what is going on and what is holding up the deals. Cub fans would love to trade Gallagher, Murton and Cedeno for Roberts. Most of the Orioles fans want that trade as well, so we are all confused to why it hasnt happened yet. So in the mean time while we are bored, we like to try and figure out what is goin on in the front office, thus we use "we". I think that "we" are the cubs and that is fine. I'm a big enough cubs fan to feel it is alright to use the Cubs as "we". It is not a big deal so stop making it one.

 

There's also a lot of "we're not going to trade you Marmol" going on there, too.

 

Pet peeve of mine, but as far as I know, unless there are members of the Cubs front office on these boards, no one has the power to make decisions about player movement. Fans should recognize that they are not part of the Cubs organization. It would go a long way towards minimizing many of the ridiculous statements made by fans about players' values.

 

Thank you...

 

Been an irritation of mine as well, but thats how it goes.

 

It's pretty funny. I saw a lot of it going on at RealGM when the Kobe rumors were flying around ("Will you guys give us Deng if we include Kwame?"). It's one thing to refer to your team as "we" as though you're part of the team, it's quite another (and moronic) thing to act like you make decisions for that team.

 

This is the same type of attitude that results in people thinking "if fans stop going to games, the team's gonna have to really try to win the World Series!"

 

The sooner the average fan realizes they have virtually zero impact on the organization for whom they cheer, everyone will be a lot better off.

 

I have no problem with that.. That's only mildly annoying and I do it sometimes, too.

 

What's stupid is saying things like "NO DUDE, oMGZ WE're NOT SENDING YOU PIE," when they obviously have no say in that. And how stupid does it look when the team does wind up doing that? I remember Boston fans telling me they wouldn't "give us" Nomar unless they got Clement back. Heh, right.

 

Just say, "Yea, I don't see the Cubs (or even 'us') giving up Pie," or something. I don't know.

[JGalt73]

Well if Bedard is the first domino, there may be a problem.

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-os0127,0,5598077.story

[WilcoFan]

So in the mean time while we are bored, we like to try and figure out what is goin on in the front office, thus we use "we". I think that "we" are the cubs and that is fine. I'm a big enough cubs fan to feel it is alright to use the Cubs as "we". It is not a big deal so stop making it one.

 

 

When you claim that "we" are not going to trade them Marmol, it implies that you have some choice in the matter and/or some level of high ground in trade speculation on the part of us fans. If Jim Hendry wants to trade Marmol, Hill, Ramirez, Lee and Soriano for Luke Scott, there is literally nothing you or any of us can do about it.

 

We are not part of the Cubs. We have nothing to do with the Cubs' success or failure. We have no control over trades, free agent signings, or anything having to do with the Cubs organization. Using the term "we" when discussing the Cubs is just plain wrong.

[David]

Well if Bedard is the first domino, there may be a problem.

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-os0127,0,5598077.story

 

This is pretty odd, considering a player in the trade (or at least, so the Seattle paper reported) flat out said he was headed to the O's, right?

[WilcoFan]

This is pretty odd, considering a player in the trade (or at least, so the Seattle paper reported) flat out said he was headed to the O's, right?

 

It might be wrong to question the veracity of a quote, but it just seems like the quote attributed to Adam Jones seemed a little blunt for what any player would give to the media. Not to say that this writer in Seattle made it up, but I wonder where from whom he got the quote.

[RammyFanny]

It's funny how massively tall of a horse some of the people who don't buy into the insiders are on here. You don't believe them. You think they're just making stuff up and have a bunch of idiots hanging at their every word. We get it.

 

I find it mildly humorous how invested you are in defending these guys, david.

Yeah, they are all making it up because it was so easy to declare the Tejada trade was official 6 hours before any media outlet reported it, including the exact players involved. This being about a week after it was first mentioned in any papers (that the Astros are interested). Or maybe the fact that the night before the draft signing deadline one of them declared the Weiters deal was done and named the exact $ amount.

[mdwilla]

There's isn't really much of a doubt in my mind that the OH forum insiders have sources. Has anyone from the Baltimore sun, Espn writers, Rosenthal, been right about any of these deals. I think there is a huge battle in the Orioles front office , it's just as bad as when they had two gm's for quite awhile. As we've seen tonight it looks like the teams dealing with Orioles have no idea what's going over there otherwise there's no way they tell Jones to pack his stuff and head to Baltimore only to hear MacPhail hours later tell the media there's no deal done yet.

[RammyFanny]

The Insiders at OH do seem to be giving the Pie speculation a vague endorsement, though.

David, did they say something tonight about Pie or are you talking about from awhile ago? I can't seem to find their comments on the Pie thing.

[CubColtPacer]

The Insiders at OH do seem to be giving the Pie speculation a vague endorsement, though.

David, did they say something tonight about Pie or are you talking about from awhile ago? I can't seem to find their comments on the Pie thing.

 

near the end of page 11, beginning of page 12 on the huge Bedard trade thread at the top of the forum

[Soul]

The O's trade of Bedard would signal a major rebuilding process in which a trade of second baseman Brian Roberts would likely follow. The Cubs remain heavily interseted in Roberts, and the O's return would be another package of prospects, possibly including pitcher Sean Gallagher, Felix Pie and another prospect.

 

Link

 

Gallagher and Pie? That would be a terrible deal.

 

Horrible beyond belief. In defense of Rosenthal though (which.....I really shouldn't be trying to defend him, but oh well), the entire quote is just throwing names out there, not suggesting it's going to be Gallagher and Pie together.

I think I found the the place that originated this dreadful rumor:

Hire Jim Essian

 

Ugh.

[Soul]

It's funny how massively tall of a horse some of the people who don't buy into the insiders are on here. You don't believe them. You think they're just making stuff up and have a bunch of idiots hanging at their every word. We get it.

 

I find it mildly humorous how invested you are in defending these guys, david.

Yeah, they are all making it up because it was so easy to declare the Tejada trade was official 6 hours before any media outlet reported it, including the exact players involved. This being about a week after it was first mentioned in any papers (that the Astros are interested). Or maybe the fact that the night before the draft signing deadline one of them declared the Weiters deal was done and named the exact $ amount.

 

They surely have some info to share, but the medium makes it difficult to just trust out of hand. It's the very nature of message boards to be anonymous, it's not the best idea to just take stuff on a MB when there's no corroboration.

 

Personally I never meant to call into question any intentions -- everyone wants to know what's going on and people everywhere want to share what they know, or think they know. I don't believe very many people are deliberately trying to lie, or hoax everyone. Maybe that's naive of me.

 

Let's see what happens this week. It should be interesting.

[NCCubFan]

Marmol did a great job last year but no way IMO an eight innning set up guy is going to be as valuable as a solid starting pitcher over the course of a season.

Your argument seems to assume that, because Marmol's role was as an 8th inning setup man last year, that means he's doomed to stay in that role. I think that's far from a given.

[badnews]

Edit: If someone tells me one truth and five lies I'm not big on trust.

 

Anyway I'm just hoping nothing gets done here. So far all the rumors have been bad ones.

Edited January 28, 2008 by badnews

[haltz]

When you claim that "we" are not going to trade them Marmol, it implies that you have some choice in the matter and/or some level of high ground in trade speculation on the part of us fans. If Jim Hendry wants to trade Marmol, Hill, Ramirez, Lee and Soriano for Luke Scott, there is literally nothing you or any of us can do about it.

 

We are not part of the Cubs. We have nothing to do with the Cubs' success or failure. We have no control over trades, free agent signings, or anything having to do with the Cubs organization. Using the term "we" when discussing the Cubs is just plain wrong.

"We" (normal people) think this sort of petty clarification is annoying. Everyone gets it, dude. Pick another battle or something. And of course it doesn't imply that someone thinks they have some choice in the matter. I seriously don't know what it is about message boards that turns people into officious literalists (sounds familiar). Everyone knows that it's a statement of fan affiliation, and that's it.

[sethuel1]

We are not wearing pants

[inari]

Ummm have you seen Marmol pitch?? He is not as valuable as Bedard but he is close. Meaning that there is NO WAY I would trade Pie, Marmol and the others for Bedard and Roberts. Marmol is more valuable to us than Pie, or hill, or vitters. If you put Marmol in our rotation he is ahead of Hill. Plus like 5 years younger. But I would trade Pie, Hill, Murton, Cedeno, Colvin, Patterson, and Dempster for Bedard and Roberts.

 

Eh, just realized that he's a poster over here too. DeuceBaseman

 

My bad, man. But it was a pretty ridiculous statement. On no planet is Marmol anywhere near as valuable as Bedard.

 

The value that Bedard (and Hill) has over Marmol is almost incomprehensible it's so high.

 

And as for that second trade, why not throw in Vitters and D-Lee as well? As long as it's not Marmol.

 

There's so many things said on this board that I disagree with but are valid. Then there's others that are just insultingly incorrect. This falls into the latter category.

[17 Seconds]

Ummm have you seen Marmol pitch?? He is not as valuable as Bedard but he is close. Meaning that there is NO WAY I would trade Pie, Marmol and the others for Bedard and Roberts. Marmol is more valuable to us than Pie, or hill, or vitters. If you put Marmol in our rotation he is ahead of Hill. Plus like 5 years younger. But I would trade Pie, Hill, Murton, Cedeno, Colvin, Patterson, and Dempster for Bedard and Roberts.

 

Eh, just realized that he's a poster over here too. DeuceBaseman

 

My bad, man. But it was a pretty ridiculous statement. On no planet is Marmol anywhere near as valuable as Bedard.

 

 

Dude, what are you talking about? Marmol's value is not higher than Hill's or Bedard's. Not even close. That trade proposal of yours would be a gigantic disaster. Are you really getting fooled this easily by Bedard's 2007 season? He's good, but not that good. Hill is locked up for cheap. Bedard is expensive and only under contract for 2 more years. Not to mention he's almost 29 and has yet to pitch 200 innings in a season. Is Bedard better than Hill? Yes. Is he so much better that we offer a ridiculous package like that? Not even close.

[DeuceBaseman]

Ummm have you seen Marmol pitch?? He is not as valuable as Bedard but he is close. Meaning that there is NO WAY I would trade Pie, Marmol and the others for Bedard and Roberts. Marmol is more valuable to us than Pie, or hill, or vitters. If you put Marmol in our rotation he is ahead of Hill. Plus like 5 years younger. But I would trade Pie, Hill, Murton, Cedeno, Colvin, Patterson, and Dempster for Bedard and Roberts.

 

Eh, just realized that he's a poster over here too. DeuceBaseman

 

My bad, man. But it was a pretty ridiculous statement. On no planet is Marmol anywhere near as valuable as Bedard.

 

 

Dude, what are you talking about? Marmol's value is not higher than Hill's or Bedard's. Not even close. That trade proposal of yours would be a gigantic disaster. Are you really getting fooled this easily by Bedard's 2007 season? He's good, but not that good. Hill is locked up for cheap. Bedard is expensive and only under contract for 2 more years. Not to mention he's almost 29 and has yet to pitch 200 innings in a season. Is Bedard better than Hill? Yes. Is he so much better that we offer a ridiculous package like that? Not even close.

 

What are we giving up exactly? Sorry I used "we".... What are the Cubs giving up exactly? I think Hill will be a good major leaguer, but he is already 27-28 years old so he isn't really young. Pie is the only other player in the deal who might be worth something to the Cubs but based on what I've seen from him, he really could be another Corey Patterson and "the cubs" might be better off just signing Lofton or putting Fukudome in CF and DeRosa in RF. Pie can be replaced easily. That being said, the rest in my offered trade are just garbage and will never have an impact on the Cubs. Cedeno? Theriot will play over him for the next few years, Theriot brings more to the table than Cedeno. Murton? Where whould he play? Patterson? They say he was the worst defensive 2B in all of baseball. Dempster is getting booed out of Wrigley every night, and people are still complaining about drafting Colvin so early. You have to give up some to get some. I actually think the trade would be something like Hill, Pie, Gallagher, Murton, Cedeno, Dempster, Patterson for Bedard and Roberts. And you guys wouldn't want that? None of those guys will turn out to be stars like Bedard and Roberts. Gallagher, Murton and Cedeno for Roberts is a steal for us...... Hill, Pie, Patterson, and Dempster for Bedard? In my opinion that is a steal for us as well. The package they are getting from Seattle could be better than that. Sorry I dont wanna argue about this anymore. It is my opinion that Bedard is a ridiculously good pitcher and doesnt compare to Hill. And I think that Marmol being a lot younger and could start for us if we chose would be a better starter than Hill and will soon be a stud closer is more valuable than Hill. Just my opinion.... anyways, the Mariners have Bedard and hopefully we can throw some type of Gallagher, Murton, Cedeno, Dempster package for Roberts and Payton.

[C.C.]

Ummm have you seen Marmol pitch?? He is not as valuable as Bedard but he is close. Meaning that there is NO WAY I would trade Pie, Marmol and the others for Bedard and Roberts. Marmol is more valuable to us than Pie, or hill, or vitters. If you put Marmol in our rotation he is ahead of Hill. Plus like 5 years younger. But I would trade Pie, Hill, Murton, Cedeno, Colvin, Patterson, and Dempster for Bedard and Roberts.

 

Eh, just realized that he's a poster over here too. DeuceBaseman

 

My bad, man. But it was a pretty ridiculous statement. On no planet is Marmol anywhere near as valuable as Bedard.

 

 

Dude, what are you talking about? Marmol's value is not higher than Hill's or Bedard's. Not even close. That trade proposal of yours would be a gigantic disaster. Are you really getting fooled this easily by Bedard's 2007 season? He's good, but not that good. Hill is locked up for cheap. Bedard is expensive and only under contract for 2 more years. Not to mention he's almost 29 and has yet to pitch 200 innings in a season. Is Bedard better than Hill? Yes. Is he so much better that we offer a ridiculous package like that? Not even close.

 

What are we giving up exactly? Sorry I used "we".... What are the Cubs giving up exactly? I think Hill will be a good major leaguer, but he is already 27-28 years old so he isn't really young. Pie is the only other player in the deal who might be worth something to the Cubs but based on what I've seen from him, he really could be another Corey Patterson and "the cubs" might be better off just signing Lofton or putting Fukudome in CF and DeRosa in RF. Pie can be replaced easily. That being said, the rest in my offered trade are just garbage and will never have an impact on the Cubs. Cedeno? Theriot will play over him for the next few years, Theriot brings more to the table than Cedeno. Murton? Where whould he play? Patterson? They say he was the worst defensive 2B in all of baseball. Dempster is getting booed out of Wrigley every night, and people are still complaining about drafting Colvin so early. You have to give up some to get some. I actually think the trade would be something like Hill, Pie, Gallagher, Murton, Cedeno, Dempster, Patterson for Bedard and Roberts. And you guys wouldn't want that? None of those guys will turn out to be stars like Bedard and Roberts. Gallagher, Murton and Cedeno for Roberts is a steal for us...... Hill, Pie, Patterson, and Dempster for Bedard? In my opinion that is a steal for us as well. The package they are getting from Seattle could be better than that. Sorry I dont wanna argue about this anymore. It is my opinion that Bedard is a ridiculously good pitcher and doesnt compare to Hill. And I think that Marmol being a lot younger and could start for us if we chose would be a better starter than Hill and will soon be a stud closer is more valuable than Hill. Just my opinion.... anyways, the Mariners have Bedard and hopefully we can throw some type of Gallagher, Murton, Cedeno, Dempster package for Roberts and Payton.

 

What difference does that make?

[WilcoFan]

"We" (normal people) think this sort of petty clarification is annoying. Everyone gets it, dude. Pick another battle or something. And of course it doesn't imply that someone thinks they have some choice in the matter. I seriously don't know what it is about message boards that turns people into officious literalists (sounds familiar). Everyone knows that it's a statement of fan affiliation, and that's it.

 

It implies exactly what I said it implies. And its a poor way to attempt to gain high ground in a discussion.

 

If you have a problem with what I write (or me personally, which seems to be pretty obvious), so much so that you have to attack me personally with condescending remarks, don't read what I write. Or just get over it and move on.

[BigbadB]

Theriot brings more to the table than Cedeno

 

Really? Like what?

[anabiono]

guys the bickering finally ends in a few days and we can finally put this beast to rest

 

8-)

 

--insider

[anabiono]

Theriot brings more to the table than Cedeno

 

Really? Like what?

 

his name has a double meaning?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Theriot brings more to the table than Cedeno

 

Really? Like what?

Whenever I have a pot luck, Ryan always brings a hot side dish and a dessert. Ronny usually only brings a small bag of cookies.

[Soul]

Theriot brings more to the table than Cedeno

 

Really? Like what?

Whenever I have a pot luck, Ryan always brings a hot side dish and a dessert. Ronny usually only brings a small bag of cookies.

 

If it's a picnic, then Theriot brings the Ketchup, Cedeno maybe the Relish and Mustard.

 

Neither brings the hot dogs & buns.