MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[BigbadB]

On the Waddle and Silvy show on ESPN 1000 Crane Kenny said that Hendry has 2 big trades on the table and he thinks both should go through and he is excited about. And he hinted that they are not for starting pitching. Of course one has to be Roberts. The other maybe Greene. I dont think Byrd is a big name.

 

The rumored deals were Brian Roberts and Chone Figgins.

[CubColtPacer]

On the Waddle and Silvy show on ESPN 1000 Crane Kenny said that Hendry has 2 big trades on the table and he thinks both should go through and he is excited about. And he hinted that they are not for starting pitching. Of course one has to be Roberts. The other maybe Greene. I dont think Byrd is a big name.

 

Can you tell me who the he refers to in the second line? If it's Hendry, that is a little change of heart. Before, Hendry said he had two trades that he was looking to push through, but you could tell he wasn't optimistic about getting them both done. Now, he thinks both should go through? Hmmmm. If Pie is involved in the Roberts deal like some have speculated, the second would be a deal for a center fielder. Hopefully it's Figgins and not Byrd, although I don't think the Angels have figured out their 3rd base situation yet.

[BigbadB]

On the Waddle and Silvy show on ESPN 1000 Crane Kenny said that Hendry has 2 big trades on the table and he thinks both should go through and he is excited about. And he hinted that they are not for starting pitching. Of course one has to be Roberts. The other maybe Greene. I dont think Byrd is a big name.

 

Can you tell me who the he refers to in the second line? If it's Hendry, that is a little change of heart. Before, Hendry said he had two trades that he was looking to push through, but you could tell he wasn't optimistic about getting them both done. Now, he thinks both should go through? Hmmmm. If Pie is involved in the Roberts deal like some have speculated, the second would be a deal for a center fielder. Hopefully it's Figgins and not Byrd, although I don't think the Angels have figured out their 3rd base situation yet.

 

Agreed. Until the Angels make another move, Figgins probably isn't going anywhere. I highly doubt Pie will be involved in a deal with Anaheim unless Anaheim plans on spinning him to get the player they covet. Anaheim already has a crowded outfield, but are hurting at 3b and gambling at SS with Aybar.

 

Towers might get lynched in San Diego by the fans if he trades Greene. Although I'd prefer to see Greene be the principle player in the 2nd deal, I highly doubt it.

[DeuceBaseman]

Can you tell me who the he refers to in the second line? If it's Hendry, that is a little change of heart. Before, Hendry said he had two trades that he was looking to push through, but you could tell he wasn't optimistic about getting them both done. Now, he thinks both should go through? Hmmmm. If Pie is involved in the Roberts deal like some have speculated, the second would be a deal for a center fielder. Hopefully it's Figgins and not Byrd, although I don't think the Angels have figured out their 3rd base situation yet.

 

They were talking about Johan Santana and Kenny said he likes the 2 deals that Hendry has on the table right now, and Kenny believes that the 2 trades will go through. (not for santana) If it is Chone figgins and Roberts then that would be amazing. I would not care about giving up pie if figgins is comin back.

[BigbadB]

I would not care about giving up pie if figgins is comin back.

 

There has to be more to it than that. Anaheim currently sports:

 

Vladmir Guerrero

Torii Hunter

Gary Matthews Jr.

Juan Rivera

Garret Anderson

Reggie Willits

 

in their outfield. There is no room for Pie.

[YearofDaCubs]

Arguing over which marginal player is less fringy is pointless, neither are or will likely be worthy of a starting position in their careers.

 

Even though Theriot has less range than Cedeno b/c he plays a couple steps in b/c of the weak arm, he is less likely to hurt the team defensively b/c of the accuracy and better hands.

 

I'm all for letting them battle it out from Feb. till April in Mesa, but if I was to guess, Cedeno b/c of that poor defense will end up as a utility guy with Theriot starting and the Cubs will need to insert and new body at SS to maximize their potential.

 

If the Roberts deal happens, DeRosa becomes the #1 option to play SS, IMO. Probably the weakest of the 3 defensively, but the big boost on offense makes it a no brainer for me, especially considering none of them sparkle on defense.

I don't think management has the confidence in letting DeRo play at SS but if I had a say I'm definitely all for it. Too bad my say doesn't mean squat :)

[DeuceBaseman]

I would not care about giving up pie if figgins is comin back.

 

There has to be more to it than that. Anaheim currently sports:

 

Vladmir Guerrero

Torii Hunter

Gary Matthews Jr.

Juan Rivera

Garret Anderson

Reggie Willits

 

in their outfield. There is no room for Pie.

 

Yeah I dont think we would trade Pie to the Angels for Figgins cuz they dont need him. I think Pie would go to the Orioles. Maybe Pie and Gallagher to the Orioles for Roberts and something else. Maybe this is all taking too long because they have to work the steps out. For example.... Mariners give Jones, Sherrill, Tillman, and Chen for Bedard. Orioles then trade Sherrill, Mora and Roberts to the cubs for Gallagher, Murton, and Pie. Cubs then trade Sherrill, Cedeno, Mora and others for Figgins. Angels really have no needs except for a SS and maybe some RP. And if they trade Figgins they would need a 3B. So maybe they get a RP, SS, and 3B for figgins like Sherrill, mora and cedeno. I know this all wont happen but it make sense to me.

[UMFan83]

Is it just me or does Figgins seem like overkill and unnecessary?

 

Yes hes super utility, and yes he has a slightly above average OBP (last year being the abberation) and yes he can run, but it seems like we have a lot of these guys on the team. I am not projecting much more then 10 HRs from the following players in our lineup

 

Roberts (if traded)

Pie

DeRosa

Soto

Theriot

 

Fukudome might give us 15-20. Seems like we need a bit more SLG in the lineup, not another speedy guy with no power. I know Hendry is obsessed with MIs that are fast and can hit lefty but still

Edited January 28, 2008 by UMFan83

[BigbadB]

I would not care about giving up pie if figgins is comin back.

 

There has to be more to it than that. Anaheim currently sports:

 

Vladmir Guerrero

Torii Hunter

Gary Matthews Jr.

Juan Rivera

Garret Anderson

Reggie Willits

 

in their outfield. There is no room for Pie.

 

Yeah I dont think we would trade Pie to the Angels for Figgins cuz they dont need him. I think Pie would go to the Orioles. Maybe Pie and Gallagher to the Orioles for Roberts and something else. Maybe this is all taking too long because they have to work the steps out. For example.... Mariners give Jones, Sherrill, Tillman, and Chen for Bedard. Orioles then trade Sherrill, Mora and Roberts to the cubs for Gallagher, Murton, and Pie. Cubs then trade Sherrill, Cedeno, Mora and others for Figgins. Angels really have no needs except for a SS and maybe some RP. And if they trade Figgins they would need a 3B. So maybe they get a RP, SS, and 3B for figgins like Sherrill, mora and cedeno. I know this all wont happen but it make sense to me.

 

The Angels don't need other teams prospects to get Mora. Baltimore would give him away for the right return, and very few teams have better talent to offer than Anaheim. Not that it would take anything special to get Mora in the first place. I'd bet Willits alone would get them Mora. Baltimore would love to get out of that deal with Mora.

 

I don't think Anaheim wants Mora.

[SouthSideRyan]

Is it just me or does Figgins seem like overkill and unnecessary?

 

Yes hes super utility, and yes he has a slightly above average OBP (last year being the abberation) and yes he can run, but it seems like we have a lot of these guys on the team. I am not projection much more then 10 HRs from the following players in our lineup

 

Roberts (if traded)

Pie

DeRosa

Soto

Theriot

 

Fukudome might give us 15-20. Seems like we need a bit more SLG in the lineup, not another speedy guy with no power. I know Hendry is obsessed with MIs that are fast and can hit lefty but still

 

If Geo doesn't hit more than 10 HRs, I'm gonna be disappointed.

[UMFan83]

Is it just me or does Figgins seem like overkill and unnecessary?

 

Yes hes super utility, and yes he has a slightly above average OBP (last year being the abberation) and yes he can run, but it seems like we have a lot of these guys on the team. I am not projection much more then 10 HRs from the following players in our lineup

 

Roberts (if traded)

Pie

DeRosa

Soto

Theriot

 

Fukudome might give us 15-20. Seems like we need a bit more SLG in the lineup, not another speedy guy with no power. I know Hendry is obsessed with MIs that are fast and can hit lefty but still

 

If Geo doesn't hit more than 10 HRs, I'm gonna be disappointed.

 

I would say I'd expect 10-15 HRs. I know that goes against some projections, but I am trying not to set my expectations on Soto too high.

[Dr. Cub]

Ok the stats have shown that Theriot doesnt take a lot of pitches per at bat (i was shocked seeing that), but like a lot of you have said, that is because he is given a lot of pitches to hit. I'm not saying he is a great hitter (he should be our #8 hitter), this argument started because some of you said Theriot brings a lot less to the table than Cedeno. I'm saying he has a way better eye at the plate than Cedeno. He doesn't swing at balls. He walks just as much as he strikes out. But you guys seem to think that this scrappy player cannot improve. A guy with great eye contact whom is fast and gets tons of pitches to hit.... I think he will only get better and this year if he is the everyday SS I dont see him batting under .285. But you guys insist that Cedeno will get better. The guy batted .200 for us. He looks [expletive] at the plate. Theriot will have a higher average than Cedeno, better OBP, walk more, strikeout less, and steal a lot more bases. Cedeno can just hit for more power. I think both suck and would like for us to get a SS, but there are no other options.

 

If Theriot indeed gets "tons of pitches to hit," then he looks even worse considering he posted a whopping .672 OPS with all those great pitches to hit.

 

The reason some people think that Cedeno can improve is that he's crushed the ball at AAA and winter ball and is three years younger. Theriot just turned 28. Being "scrappy" only gets you so far.

 

BLASPHEMY!! Take it back!!!

[BigbadB]

Is it just me or does Figgins seem like overkill and unnecessary?

 

Yes hes super utility, and yes he has a slightly above average OBP (last year being the abberation) and yes he can run, but it seems like we have a lot of these guys on the team. I am not projection much more then 10 HRs from the following players in our lineup

 

Roberts (if traded)

Pie

DeRosa

Soto

Theriot

 

Fukudome might give us 15-20. Seems like we need a bit more SLG in the lineup, not another speedy guy with no power. I know Hendry is obsessed with MIs that are fast and can hit lefty but still

 

I think Hendry would be satisfying his own desires while appeasing those who aren't particularly fond of Hendry's desires. Hendry wants a speedy line up that plays good defense without having to count on any unknowns. I think he believes this is a win now situation, which I happen to agree with the latter part.

[UMFan83]

Being "scrappy" only gets you so far

 

 

You're right:

 

http://www.aolcdn.com/aolr/david-eckstein-mvp-trophy-400a-103006.jpg

[DeuceBaseman]

Is it just me or does Figgins seem like overkill and unnecessary?

 

Yes hes super utility, and yes he has a slightly above average OBP (last year being the abberation) and yes he can run, but it seems like we have a lot of these guys on the team. I am not projecting much more then 10 HRs from the following players in our lineup

 

Roberts (if traded)

Pie

DeRosa

Soto

Theriot

 

Fukudome might give us 15-20. Seems like we need a bit more SLG in the lineup, not another speedy guy with no power. I know Hendry is obsessed with MIs that are fast and can hit lefty but still

 

Figgins is EXACTLY what the Cubs need. A fast guy who can play CF and hit over .300. We dont have any of those guys. Theriot cant bat near that. Neither can Pie. We need guys just like Figgins and Roberts, so why not get both?

 

1) Brian Roberts 2B

2) Chone Figgins CF

3) Derrek Lee 1B

4) Aramis Ramirez 3B

5) Alfonso Soriano LF

6) Kosuke Fukudome RF

7) Geovany Soto C

8) Ryan Theriot SS/Mark DeRosa SS

 

Ridiculous! But not happening. We just dont match up well with the Angels. They need a SS. or 3B

[Post Count Padder]

If we get both Figgins and Roberts, what would the lineup look like?

 

Something like:

 

Roberts

Figgins

Lee

Ramirez

Soriano

Fukudome

Soto

Riot/Cedeno

 

?

[Guest]

Can anyone with more prospect knowledge than me put Pie's prospect ranking into perspective. How highly rated is he compared to Cubs prospects over the last 20 years. If you had to rank the top prospects since 1988, where would Pie be? Please do not leave out someone just because they didn't make it in the bigs. I'm talking hype and expectations.

 

If you consider Felix to be somewhere between 25-50 before he graduated off prospect lists, he'd be definitely be behind Wood, Prior, Patterson and Cruz (before age-gate). Those 4 were generally considered top-10-in-all-of-baseball prospects at some point and time (and Wood and Prior were top 3). Pie is probably relative to guys like Choi and Zambrano, and ahead of guys like Guzman and Kieschnick. This is based on these players' prospect status when they were in the high minors/last year considered as prospects and just my opinion. And my solid knowledge of Cubs prospects only goes back to the mid-90s.

[Post Count Padder]

Too bad we traded Scott Moore to the O's for Trachsel. Though he's not a top prospect, he could've been used in a Figgins trade.

[WilcoFan]

"We" (normal people) think this sort of petty clarification is annoying. Everyone gets it, dude. Pick another battle or something. And of course it doesn't imply that someone thinks they have some choice in the matter. I seriously don't know what it is about message boards that turns people into officious literalists (sounds familiar). Everyone knows that it's a statement of fan affiliation, and that's it.

 

It implies exactly what I said it implies. And its a poor way to attempt to gain high ground in a discussion.

 

If you have a problem with what I write (or me personally, which seems to be pretty obvious), so much so that you have to attack me personally with condescending remarks, don't read what I write. Or just get over it and move on.

 

Who attacked you personally? He attacked what you wrote. To inform you, this isn't the first time someone has gone on the "we" rant around here. It's annoying and haltz was right on the money. My advice to you is to grow thicker skin.

 

Apparently, as long as you don't directly say "you're an idiot" to someone, using passive aggressive phrases like "'we'(normal people)" isn't attacking someone personally. I love the way that rule gets skirted.

 

Like I wrote to the other guy, if you don't like my opinion, deal with it. Using "we" when referring to the Cubs is stupid. If my response to the stupid use of "we" annoys you, tough.

 

Moving on...

[UMFan83]

Is it just me or does Figgins seem like overkill and unnecessary?

 

Yes hes super utility, and yes he has a slightly above average OBP (last year being the abberation) and yes he can run, but it seems like we have a lot of these guys on the team. I am not projection much more then 10 HRs from the following players in our lineup

 

Roberts (if traded)

Pie

DeRosa

Soto

Theriot

 

Fukudome might give us 15-20. Seems like we need a bit more SLG in the lineup, not another speedy guy with no power. I know Hendry is obsessed with MIs that are fast and can hit lefty but still

 

I think Hendry would be satisfying his own desires while appeasing those who aren't particularly fond of Hendry's desires. Hendry wants a speedy line up that plays good defense without having to count on any unknowns. I think he believes this is a win now situation, which I happen to agree with the latter part.

 

I guess that makes sense. But his benefit in this is to save his job, not necessarily prepare his team for the long term future. Personally I think he should be looking at players that can SLG a little higher, but your point about keeping solid defense (probably the most underrated part of the teams playoff run last year) makes sense.

[David]

Is it just me or does Figgins seem like overkill and unnecessary?

 

Yes hes super utility, and yes he has a slightly above average OBP (last year being the abberation) and yes he can run, but it seems like we have a lot of these guys on the team. I am not projecting much more then 10 HRs from the following players in our lineup

 

Roberts (if traded)

Pie

DeRosa

Soto

Theriot

 

Fukudome might give us 15-20. Seems like we need a bit more SLG in the lineup, not another speedy guy with no power. I know Hendry is obsessed with MIs that are fast and can hit lefty but still

 

FWIW, I think in the scenario where Figgins and Roberts come here, you're looking at Pie being gone and Figgins being the everday CF, anyway, not super-utility.

 

If Lee's power remains where it was in the second half of last year, I think you have a good amount of SLG in the lineup with him, Ram, Soriano, and to a lesser extent Fukudome and (maybe) Soto. I wouldn't mind seeing more, though. More OPS is always good.

[BigbadB]

Is it just me or does Figgins seem like overkill and unnecessary?

 

Yes hes super utility, and yes he has a slightly above average OBP (last year being the abberation) and yes he can run, but it seems like we have a lot of these guys on the team. I am not projecting much more then 10 HRs from the following players in our lineup

 

Roberts (if traded)

Pie

DeRosa

Soto

Theriot

 

Fukudome might give us 15-20. Seems like we need a bit more SLG in the lineup, not another speedy guy with no power. I know Hendry is obsessed with MIs that are fast and can hit lefty but still

 

Sir, you are guilty of not watching the games. Soto will win the NL MVP and hit 75 HR's in 2008. No one will steal a base on Geovany Soto unless they know what's good for them. Soto will burn down the house of anyone who even remotely thinks of stealing a base on him. Soto will have a CERA of 1.25. He would make it lower, but he honestly doesn't want "GOD" status in just his rookie season.

[soonercub]

While I would prefer Figgins, I suspect the Angels would be more inclined to dump Mathew's Jr. for very little and throw in some cash.

[CubColtPacer]

Too bad we traded Scott Moore to the O's for Trachsel. Though he's not a top prospect, he could've been used in a Figgins trade.

 

I doubt the Angels would be interested in him. They want to win now, and plugging Moore in at 3rd base this year isn't likely to help them do that. He would just waste away either in their minors or possibly as a bench player.

[UMFan83]

Can anyone with more prospect knowledge than me put Pie's prospect ranking into perspective. How highly rated is he compared to Cubs prospects over the last 20 years. If you had to rank the top prospects since 1988, where would Pie be? Please do not leave out someone just because they didn't make it in the bigs. I'm talking hype and expectations.

 

If you consider Felix to be somewhere between 25-50 before he graduated off prospect lists, he'd be definitely be behind Wood, Prior, Patterson and Cruz (before age-gate). Those 4 were generally considered top-10-in-all-of-baseball prospects at some point and time (and Wood and Prior were top 3). Pie is probably relative to guys like Choi and Zambrano, and ahead of guys like Guzman and Kieschnick. This is based on these players' prospect status when they were in the high minors/last year considered as prospects and just my opinion. And my solid knowledge of Cubs prospects only goes back to the mid-90s.

 

Great, that really puts it into perspective for me. Thanks. I was under the assumption that he was a step below Wood and Prior, but around the level of Patterson and Cruz, but I guess my memory of those days is hazy.