MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[andrew9991]

Is it just me or does Figgins seem like overkill and unnecessary?

 

Yes hes super utility, and yes he has a slightly above average OBP (last year being the abberation) and yes he can run, but it seems like we have a lot of these guys on the team. I am not projecting much more then 10 HRs from the following players in our lineup

 

Roberts (if traded)

Pie

DeRosa

Soto

Theriot

 

Fukudome might give us 15-20. Seems like we need a bit more SLG in the lineup, not another speedy guy with no power. I know Hendry is obsessed with MIs that are fast and can hit lefty but still

 

Sir, you are guilty of not watching the games. Soto will win the NL MVP and hit 75 HR's in 2008. No one will steal a base on Geovany Soto unless they know what's good for them. Soto will burn down the house of anyone who even remotely thinks of stealing a base on him. Soto will have a CERA of 1.25. He would make it lower, but he honestly doesn't want "GOD" status in just his rookie season.

Is it now time for Geovany Soto jokes a la Chuck Norris? This seems to have some potential, if you ask me. :D

When Geovany Soto does pushups, he doesn't push himself up, he pushes the ground down.

 

in reality neither matters. it does not matter which is moving

 

I'm pretty sure pushing down the ground would be a far more impressive feat of strength as the force it would take to push down the ground would undoubtedly exceed the force it takes to do a push up. I could be wrong but, up until Geovanny Soto, I've never heard of anyone that was able to push down the ground.

[ThePenguin11]

I'm not so sure why everybody is bashing Theriot (and basically lumping him in with stiffs like Neifi Perez and Cesar Izturis). I know his second half wasn't good, but there was an awful lot of "The Riot" love in the first half of the season. Is it completely out of the question that the guy could actually improve in his second major league season? I mean, I'd love to get a better shortstop, but let's not forget who came before him (and how happy everyone was when he replaced them). There is still a reasonable chance that this guy pans out to be a "good-enough" everyday shortstop.

 

I think the Theriot love boiled down to "Cheap and bad beats expensive and bad". Yes, I also believe many overrated him (somewhat) on this board. But I think even the highest expectations for him amounted to no more than "almost good enough."

 

Having a player like Theriot on the bench is a great idea-he's cheap, versatile, and for one day a week, could probably be semi productive. But he's simply not good enough to be a full-time major league shortstop, and the numbers he put up in every month other than July of '07 bear that out.

 

I guess this would be a good argument for the people who would much rather have Rafael Furcal over Theriot. Even though Furcal is due like $15MM per year and had nearly identical statistics to Theriot. I'm all for the upgrade at SS, but teams aren't exactly throwing their shortstops out there for trade discussions.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I guess this would be a good argument for the people who would much rather have Rafael Furcal over Theriot. Even though Furcal is due like $15MM per year and had nearly identical statistics to Theriot. I'm all for the upgrade at SS, but teams aren't exactly throwing their shortstops out there for trade discussions.

Um, have you actually compared the 2 of them?

[CyHawk_Cub]

Bigbird said he thinks there is no chance in hell Roberts gets traded.

 

But he was refuted by Oscar, Grover, Bert, and Ernie.

I tickled the hell out of Elmo, but he wouldn't say one way or the other.

 

Carefull...that'll get you 10-20 in some states

[dew1679666265]

I guess this would be a good argument for the people who would much rather have Rafael Furcal over Theriot. Even though Furcal is due like $15MM per year and had nearly identical statistics to Theriot. I'm all for the upgrade at SS, but teams aren't exactly throwing their shortstops out there for trade discussions.

Um, have you actually compared the 2 of them?

 

 

Career numbers

Furcal - .284 BA/.349 OBP/.407 SLG/94 OPS+

 

Theriot - .276 BA/.341 OBP/.379 SLG/83 OPS+

 

Furcal has never had a season with an OPS+ as low as Theriot's 72 in his only full year. And Theriot's career numbers are helped greatly by a huge 53-game season two years ago.\

 

Plus, Furcal is just three years older than Theriot. I'd happily take Raffy.

[UMFan83]

I am finally on the side of people who are saying "forget the Orioles, lets just move along" Lets somehow find a way to get Greene for SS, and whether or not we do,lets call it an offseason.

 

Soriano

Fukudome

Lee

Ramirez

Greene

DeRosa

Soto

Pie/Byrd/CF

[ThePenguin11]

I guess this would be a good argument for the people who would much rather have Rafael Furcal over Theriot. Even though Furcal is due like $15MM per year and had nearly identical statistics to Theriot. I'm all for the upgrade at SS, but teams aren't exactly throwing their shortstops out there for trade discussions.

Um, have you actually compared the 2 of them?

 

 

Career numbers

Furcal - .284 BA/.349 OBP/.407 SLG/94 OPS+

 

Theriot - .276 BA/.341 OBP/.379 SLG/83 OPS+

 

Furcal has never had a season with an OPS+ as low as Theriot's 72 in his only full year. And Theriot's career numbers are helped greatly by a huge 53-game season two years ago.\

 

Plus, Furcal is just three years older than Theriot. I'd happily take Raffy.

 

People want to talk about a marginal upgrades...would you prefer to pay $13,000,000 in 2008 extra to have Furcal's numbers? Comparing both by 2007 and I see identical statistics. Yes, it was a down year for Furcal, but are you willing to gamble $13,000,000 that he's going to show a significant rebound at 30+ years old coming off of injuries?

[rawaction]

I guess this would be a good argument for the people who would much rather have Rafael Furcal over Theriot. Even though Furcal is due like $15MM per year and had nearly identical statistics to Theriot. I'm all for the upgrade at SS, but teams aren't exactly throwing their shortstops out there for trade discussions.

Um, have you actually compared the 2 of them?

 

 

Career numbers

Furcal - .284 BA/.349 OBP/.407 SLG/94 OPS+

 

Theriot - .276 BA/.341 OBP/.379 SLG/83 OPS+

 

Furcal has never had a season with an OPS+ as low as Theriot's 72 in his only full year. And Theriot's career numbers are helped greatly by a huge 53-game season two years ago.\

 

Plus, Furcal is just three years older than Theriot. I'd happily take Raffy.

 

People want to talk about a marginal upgrades...would you prefer to pay $13,000,000 in 2008 extra to have Furcal's numbers? Comparing both by 2007 and I see identical statistics. Yes, it was a down year for Furcal, but are you willing to gamble $13,000,000 that he's going to show a significant rebound at 30+ years old coming off of injuries?

 

yes, 2007 was an anomaly. 2008 is a contract year. Furcal will have a great season.

[davearm2]

I guess this would be a good argument for the people who would much rather have Rafael Furcal over Theriot. Even though Furcal is due like $15MM per year and had nearly identical statistics to Theriot. I'm all for the upgrade at SS, but teams aren't exactly throwing their shortstops out there for trade discussions.

Um, have you actually compared the 2 of them?

 

 

Career numbers

Furcal - .284 BA/.349 OBP/.407 SLG/94 OPS+

 

Theriot - .276 BA/.341 OBP/.379 SLG/83 OPS+

 

Furcal has never had a season with an OPS+ as low as Theriot's 72 in his only full year. And Theriot's career numbers are helped greatly by a huge 53-game season two years ago.\

 

Plus, Furcal is just three years older than Theriot. I'd happily take Raffy.

 

People want to talk about a marginal upgrades...would you prefer to pay $13,000,000 in 2008 extra to have Furcal's numbers? Comparing both by 2007 and I see identical statistics. Yes, it was a down year for Furcal, but are you willing to gamble $13,000,000 that he's going to show a significant rebound at 30+ years old coming off of injuries?

 

yes, 2007 was an anomaly. 2008 is a contract year. Furcal will have a great season.

Furcal had a miserable first half in his last contract year (2005). It took a monster July and solid August and September just to get him back to his career norms.

[Derwood]

andruw jones was in a contract year last season and he blew goats

[Ding Dong Johnson]

andruw jones was in a contract year last season and he blew goats

[UMFan83]

andruw jones was in a contract year last season and he blew goats

 

Which is why I'd rather have Ichiro than Andruw Jones

[RedFlash]

andruw jones was in a contract year last season and he blew goats

 

 

Bob I know you want to lay the wood, but don't do it.......

[Mephistopheles]

People want to talk about a marginal upgrades...would you prefer to pay $13,000,000 in 2008 extra to have Furcal's numbers? Comparing both by 2007 and I see identical statistics. Yes, it was a down year for Furcal, but are you willing to gamble $13,000,000 that he's going to show a significant rebound at 30+ years old coming off of injuries?

 

Getting Furcal as our shortstop is much more than a "marginal upgrade." I don't think you fully grasp the magnitude of Theriot's suck. Furcal bottomed out last season having the worst season of his career, and he still was better than Theriot. Furcal's not an old cat yet. He just turned 30. He has at least three more quality seasons in him. Rafael Furcal will easily bounce back to his overall line the previous four years. That's an upper .270s EqA with above average defense. Theriot's suck will likely improve a bit, but to what? A .250 EqA? That's a 25 run difference on offense, likely another 10 or so on defense. We're talking about a 30-40 run difference between Theriot and Furcal. By comparison, that's a greater increase in production than going from Felix Pie to Grady Sizemore.

[fromthestretch]

andruw jones was in a contract year last season and he blew goats

 

 

Bob I know you want to lay the wood, but don't do it.......

 

Ned Colletti's nickname is "goats?" Guess that explains the contract Jones got after the numbers he put up in 2007.

[Derwood]

People want to talk about a marginal upgrades...would you prefer to pay $13,000,000 in 2008 extra to have Furcal's numbers? Comparing both by 2007 and I see identical statistics. Yes, it was a down year for Furcal, but are you willing to gamble $13,000,000 that he's going to show a significant rebound at 30+ years old coming off of injuries?

 

Getting Furcal as our shortstop is much more than a "marginal upgrade." I don't think you fully grasp the magnitude of Theriot's suck. Furcal bottomed out last season having the worst season of his career, and he still was better than Theriot. Furcal's not an old cat yet. He just turned 30. He has at least three more quality seasons in him. Rafael Furcal will easily bounce back to his overall line the previous four years. That's an upper .270s EqA with above average defense. Theriot's suck will likely improve a bit, but to what? A .250 EqA? That's a 25 run difference on offense, likely another 10 or so on defense. We're talking about a 30-40 run difference between Theriot and Furcal. By comparison, that's a greater increase in production than going from Felix Pie to Grady Sizemore.

 

i guess the question is are 35 runs worth $13 million more on the payroll?

[Mephistopheles]

I don't know? What's a 30% increase in expected playoff probability (ie DOUBLING OUR PLAYOFF CHANCES)?

 

Answer: Quite a bit.

[Burtonbell]

Hey Meph, if given the opportunity and money not an object...Greene or Furcal? Just curious.

[Derwood]

FWIW, i was asking the question in general, not because i didn't think it was worth it

[hawkeyecub]

Gammons just said on ESPNEWS that he expects by this time next week the Santana trade to be official with the Mets, Bedard to be traded to the Mariners and Roberts to be traded to the Cubs.

[RedFlash]

Gammons just said on ESPNEWS that he expects by this time next week the Santana trade to be official with the Mets, Bedard to be traded to the Mariners and Roberts to be traded to the Cubs.

 

#-o

 

Will someone please put a zipper on Gammons.

[Derwood]

Gammons just said on ESPNEWS that he expects by this time next week the Santana trade to be official with the Mets, Bedard to be traded to the Mariners and Roberts to be traded to the Cubs.

 

#-o

 

Will someone please put a zipper on Gammons.

 

he just pissed off Peter Angelos. GREAT

[UMFan83]

Gammons just said on ESPNEWS that he expects by this time next week the Santana trade to be official with the Mets, Bedard to be traded to the Mariners and Roberts to be traded to the Cubs.

 

LEAK!!!! Shut everything down. No one is going anywhere now.

[ThePenguin11]

I guess this would be a good argument for the people who would much rather have Rafael Furcal over Theriot. Even though Furcal is due like $15MM per year and had nearly identical statistics to Theriot. I'm all for the upgrade at SS, but teams aren't exactly throwing their shortstops out there for trade discussions.

Um, have you actually compared the 2 of them?

 

 

Career numbers

Furcal - .284 BA/.349 OBP/.407 SLG/94 OPS+

 

Theriot - .276 BA/.341 OBP/.379 SLG/83 OPS+

 

Furcal has never had a season with an OPS+ as low as Theriot's 72 in his only full year. And Theriot's career numbers are helped greatly by a huge 53-game season two years ago.\

 

Plus, Furcal is just three years older than Theriot. I'd happily take Raffy.

 

People want to talk about a marginal upgrades...would you prefer to pay $13,000,000 in 2008 extra to have Furcal's numbers? Comparing both by 2007 and I see identical statistics. Yes, it was a down year for Furcal, but are you willing to gamble $13,000,000 that he's going to show a significant rebound at 30+ years old coming off of injuries?

 

yes, 2007 was an anomaly. 2008 is a contract year. Furcal will have a great season.

 

2007 was a contract year for his former teammate Andruw Jones. How come he didn't have a great season? You can't say with all absolute certainty that Furcal WILL have a great season. There are only a few really special players that you can usually say that about (Pujols, Johan, etc.), and he's not that special. At his age, 2007 could be as easily the beginning of a downward trend as it could be an anomoly.

[Derwood]

i think the concept of "contract years" is half fiction and nearly impossible to prove