MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[UMFan83]

While I would prefer Figgins, I suspect the Angels would be more inclined to dump Mathew's Jr. for very little and throw in some cash.

 

Very good point. I think that may be where we are headed. I just don't see the Angels need/desire to part with Figgins with the leftover parts the Cubs have after a Roberts trade. Matthews Jr is someone the Angels actually want to part with.

[Guest]

Can anyone with more prospect knowledge than me put Pie's prospect ranking into perspective. How highly rated is he compared to Cubs prospects over the last 20 years. If you had to rank the top prospects since 1988, where would Pie be? Please do not leave out someone just because they didn't make it in the bigs. I'm talking hype and expectations.

 

If you consider Felix to be somewhere between 25-50 before he graduated off prospect lists, he'd be definitely be behind Wood, Prior, Patterson and Cruz (before age-gate). Those 4 were generally considered top-10-in-all-of-baseball prospects at some point and time (and Wood and Prior were top 3). Pie is probably relative to guys like Choi and Zambrano, and ahead of guys like Guzman and Kieschnick. This is based on these players' prospect status when they were in the high minors/last year considered as prospects and just my opinion. And my solid knowledge of Cubs prospects only goes back to the mid-90s.

 

Great, that really puts it into perspective for me. Thanks. I was under the assumption that he was a step below Wood and Prior, but around the level of Patterson and Cruz, but I guess my memory of those days is hazy.

 

Frankly, his ceiling and prospect status should be similar to Patterson but Corey was overvalued around 2000. Felix has to make the adjustments that Corey never made at the big league level (Felix at least has made the adjustments at AAA which Corey didn't do). Another guy in the 25-50 range who's ready to graduate to the big leagues is Geovany Soto.

[BigbadB]

Is it just me or does Figgins seem like overkill and unnecessary?

 

Yes hes super utility, and yes he has a slightly above average OBP (last year being the abberation) and yes he can run, but it seems like we have a lot of these guys on the team. I am not projection much more then 10 HRs from the following players in our lineup

 

Roberts (if traded)

Pie

DeRosa

Soto

Theriot

 

Fukudome might give us 15-20. Seems like we need a bit more SLG in the lineup, not another speedy guy with no power. I know Hendry is obsessed with MIs that are fast and can hit lefty but still

 

I think Hendry would be satisfying his own desires while appeasing those who aren't particularly fond of Hendry's desires. Hendry wants a speedy line up that plays good defense without having to count on any unknowns. I think he believes this is a win now situation, which I happen to agree with the latter part.

 

I guess that makes sense. But his benefit in this is to save his job, not necessarily prepare his team for the long term future. Personally I think he should be looking at players that can SLG a little higher, but your point about keeping solid defense (probably the most underrated part of the teams playoff run last year) makes sense.

 

Roberts and Figgins bring left handedness to a team that has been pretty righty dominant over the years. We know Hendry wants a more balanced approach at the plate, as he's admitted as much. But, in the past he's mentioned value in catching the ball and speed on the basepaths. While he has mentioned OBP being valuable, his actions prior to 2007 haven't really shown that he does value it as much as he should. Fukudome, Roberts and Figgins all improve OBP while giving him the defense, speed and left handedness he so desires.

[BigbadB]

Too bad we traded Scott Moore to the O's for Trachsel. Though he's not a top prospect, he could've been used in a Figgins trade.

 

I doubt the Angels would be interested in him. They want to win now, and plugging Moore in at 3rd base this year isn't likely to help them do that. He would just waste away either in their minors or possibly as a bench player.

 

Not to mention the fact that Brandon Wood is probably much more valuable than Scott Moore in the eyes of Angels brass.

[Rob]

Gallagher, Colvin, EPatt to Baltimore for Roberts. Murton, Pie, Cedeno to San Diego for Greene. Sign Lofton.

 

LF - Soriano

2B - Roberts

1B - Lee

3B - Ramirez

RF - Fukudome

SS - Greene

CF - Lofton

C - Soto

 

I could certainly live with something like that.

[E.J.]

Man, I got excited because there were 5 more pages since I last looked at this thread. I thought something new might have surfaced, but it turns out you guys are fighting about Theriot again. Bastards.

[David]

I wish signing Lofton were somewhere on the radar if we're trading Pie somewhere.

[Sammy Sofa]

I wish signing Lofton were somewhere on the radar if we're trading Pie somewhere.

 

I suppose it's possible that it is. Maybe signing Lofton before trading Pie would show that the Cubs have no problem giving up Pie, and maybe lessen his value?

[Rob]

Is it just me or does Figgins seem like overkill and unnecessary?

 

Yes hes super utility, and yes he has a slightly above average OBP (last year being the abberation) and yes he can run, but it seems like we have a lot of these guys on the team. I am not projecting much more then 10 HRs from the following players in our lineup

 

Roberts (if traded)

Pie

DeRosa

Soto

Theriot

 

Fukudome might give us 15-20. Seems like we need a bit more SLG in the lineup, not another speedy guy with no power. I know Hendry is obsessed with MIs that are fast and can hit lefty but still

 

Figgins is EXACTLY what the Cubs need. A fast guy who can play CF and hit over .300. We dont have any of those guys. Theriot cant bat near that. Neither can Pie. We need guys just like Figgins and Roberts, so why not get both?

 

1) Brian Roberts 2B

2) Chone Figgins CF

3) Derrek Lee 1B

4) Aramis Ramirez 3B

5) Alfonso Soriano LF

6) Kosuke Fukudome RF

7) Geovany Soto C

8) Ryan Theriot SS/Mark DeRosa SS

 

Ridiculous! But not happening. We just dont match up well with the Angels. They need a SS. or 3B

 

Smart teams don't trade off their assets for Chone Figgins to play CF when Kenny Lofton is a free agent.

[DeuceBaseman]

While I would prefer Figgins, I suspect the Angels would be more inclined to dump Mathew's Jr. for very little and throw in some cash.

 

Very good point. I think that may be where we are headed. I just don't see the Angels need/desire to part with Figgins with the leftover parts the Cubs have after a Roberts trade. Matthews Jr is someone the Angels actually want to part with.

 

That's what I was just thinking. I think the Angels would much rather part with Matthews. If we trade Gallagher and Pie to the Orioles for Roberts and HOPEFULLY something else. Then we can trade that something else, and Cedeno, and maybe more for Matthews. BUT I just dont see us trading gallagher and pie for roberts. it just doesnt make sense to me. Thats too much.

[BigbadB]

GMJ's contract is ridiculous. There is no way the Cubs get him unless Anaheim is paying a significant portion of his contract.

 

And I'm not sure a trade for GMJ would be something that would make everyone in Cubdom jump up and down with joy. He's been a Cub before, and it wasn't the most memorable experience imagineable.

[Sammy Sofa]

GMJ's contract is ridiculous. There is no way the Cubs get him unless Anaheim is paying a significant portion of his contract.

 

And I'm not sure a trade for GMJ would be something that would make everyone in Cubdom jump up and down with joy. He's been a Cub before, and it wasn't the most memorable experience imagineable.

 

And he can't slam into the bricks like he hits the wall in Anaheim, so there go those catches.

[UMFan83]

GMJ's contract is ridiculous. There is no way the Cubs get him unless Anaheim is paying a significant portion of his contract.

 

And I'm not sure a trade for GMJ would be something that would make everyone in Cubdom jump up and down with joy. He's been a Cub before, and it wasn't the most memorable experience imagineable.

 

No one is saying that they want GMJ here. And yes LAA would pick up some of the salary for sure if it happened. But in my mind it seems more likely that we get him then Figgins, if there is in fact trade discussions with the Angels.

[fromthestretch]

Being "scrappy" only gets you so far

 

 

You're right:

 

http://www.aolcdn.com/aolr/david-eckstein-mvp-trophy-400a-103006.jpg

 

Yeah, I forgot he won that World Series single-handedly.

 

Not that Eckstein was bad in that series, but Molina and Rolen had a better series than he did.

[Tracer Bullet]

Being "scrappy" only gets you so far

 

 

You're right:

 

http://www.aolcdn.com/aolr/david-eckstein-mvp-trophy-400a-103006.jpg

 

Yeah, I forgot he won that World Series single-handedly.

 

Not that Eckstein was bad in that series, but Molina and Rolen had a better series than he did.

 

If only there were readily available pictures of every scrappy guy that didn't amazingly win an award he didn't deserve...

[fromthestretch]

Being "scrappy" only gets you so far

 

 

You're right:

 

http://www.aolcdn.com/aolr/david-eckstein-mvp-trophy-400a-103006.jpg

 

Yeah, I forgot he won that World Series single-handedly.

 

Not that Eckstein was bad in that series, but Molina and Rolen had a better series than he did.

 

If only there were readily available pictures of every scrappy guy that didn't amazingly win an award he didn't deserve...

 

In other words, "scrappy" helps you win the hearts of those that vote for awards, which has shown to be more valuable than actual production.

[Tyrant]

 

Smart teams don't trade off their assets for Chone Figgins to play CF when Kenny Lofton is a free agent.

 

This made me laugh for some reason.

[hankp101]

In the 2006 World Series, Eckstein had 3 doubles in 22 at bats. In the 2006 regular season he had 18 in 500 at bats (21 total XBHs). Talk about good timing for a hot streak!

[Outshined_One]

In the 2006 World Series, Eckstein had 3 doubles in 22 at bats. In the 2006 regular season he had 18 in 500 at bats (21 total XBHs). Talk about good timing for a hot streak!

 

Didn't Eckstein have abysmal numbers in the 2006 playoffs until about Game 3 of the WS or so?

 

By the way, we had a speedy guy who could hit around .300 back in 2006. If you want Juan Pierre back, be my guest.

[hankp101]

I'm not saying I want anything to do with Eckstein. I'm just saying by hitting like he did in the series in '06 he probably cemented himself as a beloved figure in St. Louis and made him self some nice extra cash.

[inari]

I know it's pretty popular to bash David Eckstein because of all the undeserved hype he gets, but I wish people sould stop pretending he's Ryan Theriot. Eckstein produces pretty decent offense for a shortstop. If we were to upgrade from Riot to Eckstein it'd be significant.

[haltz]

If Granderson hadn't fallen down he'd have two doubles, and a .320/.360/.410 line or something for the series. Rolen and Molina legitimately raked.

 

Tomy is right of course about Eckstein, but his fielding dropped off precipitously last year. That's the reason that the Cardinals didn't offer him arbitration or want him back. A .263 EQA is fine for a shortstop, especially one that the internal metrics at the time (UZR) liked. He dropped to one of the worst SS in the NL according to that metric last year. Could be an aberration or he could be falling off a cliff as an older and oft-injured middle infielder.

Edited January 28, 2008 by haltz

[Outshined_One]

If Granderson hadn't fallen down he'd have two doubles, and a .320/.360/.410 line or something for the series. Rolen and Molina legitimately raked.

 

But you have to understand, he made Granderson fall down!

[Post Count Padder]

There must be different levels of GRIT because Riot hasn't led us to the promised land yet.

[Soul]

I'm not saying I want anything to do with Eckstein. I'm just saying by hitting like he did in the series in '06 he probably cemented himself as a beloved figure in St. Louis and made him self some nice extra cash.

 

He'll be able to corner the market on doing used car commercials in St. Louis forever.