MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[Tracer Bullet]

I know it's pretty popular to bash David Eckstein because of all the undeserved hype he gets, but I wish people sould stop pretending he's Ryan Theriot. Eckstein produces pretty decent offense for a shortstop. If we were to upgrade from Riot to Eckstein it'd be significant.

 

Not sure if it's directed at me, but I bash Eckstein pretty regularly. I do so b/c a) he was a Cardinal, and b) he was terribly overhyped as a Cardinal. He's no Ryan Theriot, that's true. Course, I never said he was. I just said he got some awards (which I only referenced b/c UMFan posted that pic) he didn't deserve. Quite a stretch from one to the other there.

[javy knows my name]

Is it just me or does Figgins seem like overkill and unnecessary?

 

Yes hes super utility, and yes he has a slightly above average OBP (last year being the abberation) and yes he can run, but it seems like we have a lot of these guys on the team. I am not projecting much more then 10 HRs from the following players in our lineup

 

Roberts (if traded)

Pie

DeRosa

Soto

Theriot

 

Fukudome might give us 15-20. Seems like we need a bit more SLG in the lineup, not another speedy guy with no power. I know Hendry is obsessed with MIs that are fast and can hit lefty but still

 

Sir, you are guilty of not watching the games. Soto will win the NL MVP and hit 75 HR's in 2008. No one will steal a base on Geovany Soto unless they know what's good for them. Soto will burn down the house of anyone who even remotely thinks of stealing a base on him. Soto will have a CERA of 1.25. He would make it lower, but he honestly doesn't want "GOD" status in just his rookie season.

Is it now time for Geovany Soto jokes a la Chuck Norris? This seems to have some potential, if you ask me. :D

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Is it just me or does Figgins seem like overkill and unnecessary?

 

Yes hes super utility, and yes he has a slightly above average OBP (last year being the abberation) and yes he can run, but it seems like we have a lot of these guys on the team. I am not projecting much more then 10 HRs from the following players in our lineup

 

Roberts (if traded)

Pie

DeRosa

Soto

Theriot

 

Fukudome might give us 15-20. Seems like we need a bit more SLG in the lineup, not another speedy guy with no power. I know Hendry is obsessed with MIs that are fast and can hit lefty but still

 

Sir, you are guilty of not watching the games. Soto will win the NL MVP and hit 75 HR's in 2008. No one will steal a base on Geovany Soto unless they know what's good for them. Soto will burn down the house of anyone who even remotely thinks of stealing a base on him. Soto will have a CERA of 1.25. He would make it lower, but he honestly doesn't want "GOD" status in just his rookie season.

Is it now time for Geovany Soto jokes a la Chuck Norris? This seems to have some potential, if you ask me. :D

um, Chuck Norris is no Bob Sanders

[Guest]

This is based on last year's mlb numbers. Cedeno only had 80 at bats. You also gotta look at OBP. Theriot's OBP of .326 is actually really good when you only bat .266. This means he took a lot of walks. Cedeno's OBP was like .230. Theriot's career P/PA is better than Cedeno's. Theriot is a very patient hitter, one of the only few on the Cubs. It's just when he swung at a ball, he didn't miss it often like most of the other Cubs, so his pitches per at bat were less. But like Nevin said, sometimes it is better to swing and miss or foul it off than hit it. I never saw Theriot swing at a pitch that wasnt close to the strike zone. I am shocked to see that his P/PA is lower than most the other guys, because every time i saw him play he was taking the first few pitches down the middle and working the count.

 

This is the reason we have stats - they are much, much more reliable than somebody's memory. You obviously like Theriot as a baseball player and that is clouding your judgment on this topic. He isn't good at baseball and that's the easiest way to say it.

[Guest]

Theriot brings more to the table than Cedeno

 

Really? Like what?

 

GRIT!!!

[RedFlash]

Smart teams don't trade off their assets for Chone Figgins to play CF when Kenny Lofton is a free agent.

 

Looking at their numbers (both 2007 and their 3 yr splits) Lofton and Figgins are virtually the same player. Neither hits lefties particularly well. Both do hit righties at a very good rate. I think the reason why there have been interests from the Cubs for Figgins....(drum roll) it's because Chone is a switch-hitter. (< roll eyes) Meaning he wouldn't nec. need a platoon partner (looking at his stats, it says otherwise), but Lofton would clearly need a RH platoon partner, seeing as he can't hit lefties. So if you sign Lofton, you would have to trade for RH platoon partner.

[The Voice of Reason]

Any updates from Peace and Big Bird at OH?

[Post Count Padder]

Is it just me or does Figgins seem like overkill and unnecessary?

 

Yes hes super utility, and yes he has a slightly above average OBP (last year being the abberation) and yes he can run, but it seems like we have a lot of these guys on the team. I am not projecting much more then 10 HRs from the following players in our lineup

 

Roberts (if traded)

Pie

DeRosa

Soto

Theriot

 

Fukudome might give us 15-20. Seems like we need a bit more SLG in the lineup, not another speedy guy with no power. I know Hendry is obsessed with MIs that are fast and can hit lefty but still

 

Sir, you are guilty of not watching the games. Soto will win the NL MVP and hit 75 HR's in 2008. No one will steal a base on Geovany Soto unless they know what's good for them. Soto will burn down the house of anyone who even remotely thinks of stealing a base on him. Soto will have a CERA of 1.25. He would make it lower, but he honestly doesn't want "GOD" status in just his rookie season.

Is it now time for Geovany Soto jokes a la Chuck Norris? This seems to have some potential, if you ask me. :D

When Geovany Soto does pushups, he doesn't push himself up, he pushes the ground down.

[Mephistopheles]

Is it just me or does Figgins seem like overkill and unnecessary?

 

Yes hes super utility, and yes he has a slightly above average OBP (last year being the abberation) and yes he can run, but it seems like we have a lot of these guys on the team. I am not projecting much more then 10 HRs from the following players in our lineup

 

Roberts (if traded)

Pie

DeRosa

Soto

Theriot

 

Fukudome might give us 15-20. Seems like we need a bit more SLG in the lineup, not another speedy guy with no power. I know Hendry is obsessed with MIs that are fast and can hit lefty but still

 

Sir, you are guilty of not watching the games. Soto will win the NL MVP and hit 75 HR's in 2008. No one will steal a base on Geovany Soto unless they know what's good for them. Soto will burn down the house of anyone who even remotely thinks of stealing a base on him. Soto will have a CERA of 1.25. He would make it lower, but he honestly doesn't want "GOD" status in just his rookie season.

Is it now time for Geovany Soto jokes a la Chuck Norris? This seems to have some potential, if you ask me. :D

When Geovany Soto does pushups, he doesn't push himself up, he pushes the ground down.

 

in reality neither matters. it does not matter which is moving

[hankp101]

Just to give the usual suspects a break from the abuse, I'll point out that Belkast at OH said that the Bedard to the Ms deal will still happen this week, it is just taking a little longer than expected to finalize the details.

[Yestheydo]

Any updates from Peace and Big Bird at OH?

No, but Mr. Snuffalupagus says the Tejada trade is OFF

[RammyFanny]

Tim Dierks at MLBTR:

It ain't Pie and Gallagher for Roberts. I have heard that Pie is not involved.

[Schwarber Fan]

Any updates from Peace and Big Bird at OH?

No, but Mr. Snuffalupagus says the Tejada trade is OFF

 

Well, Peace said Angelos nixed the Bedard deal, so thats gonna put everything on hold I'd assume.

[NCCubFan]

My sources tell me that the Robert trade is a done deal, but MacPhail and Hendry have agreed to sit on it awhile before announcing it because they both are amused watching this thread and seeing how big it grows. :D

[inari]

My sources tell me that the Robert trade is a done deal, but MacPhail and Hendry have agreed to sit on it awhile before announcing it because they both are amused watching this thread and seeing how big it grows. :D

 

And Jon Leiber hasn't had his press conference yet. Can't take away from Jon's moment in the sun.

[Schwarber Fan]

Bigbird said he thinks there is no chance in hell Roberts gets traded.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Bigbird said he thinks there is no chance in hell Roberts gets traded.

 

But he was refuted by Oscar, Grover, Bert, and Ernie.

[C.C.]

Bigbird said he thinks there is no chance in hell Roberts gets traded.

 

But he was refuted by Oscar, Grover, Bert, and Ernie.

 

And Elmo laughed hysterically in the corner.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Bigbird said he thinks there is no chance in hell Roberts gets traded.

 

But he was refuted by Oscar, Grover, Bert, and Ernie.

I tickled the hell out of Elmo, but he wouldn't say one way or the other.

[ThePenguin11]

I know it's pretty popular to bash David Eckstein because of all the undeserved hype he gets, but I wish people sould stop pretending he's Ryan Theriot. Eckstein produces pretty decent offense for a shortstop. If we were to upgrade from Riot to Eckstein it'd be significant.

 

Not sure if it's directed at me, but I bash Eckstein pretty regularly. I do so b/c a) he was a Cardinal, and b) he was terribly overhyped as a Cardinal. He's no Ryan Theriot, that's true. Course, I never said he was. I just said he got some awards (which I only referenced b/c UMFan posted that pic) he didn't deserve. Quite a stretch from one to the other there.

 

I'm not so sure why everybody is bashing Theriot (and basically lumping him in with stiffs like Neifi Perez and Cesar Izturis). I know his second half wasn't good, but there was an awful lot of "The Riot" love in the first half of the season. Is it completely out of the question that the guy could actually improve in his second major league season? I mean, I'd love to get a better shortstop, but let's not forget who came before him (and how happy everyone was when he replaced them). There is still a reasonable chance that this guy pans out to be a "good-enough" everyday shortstop.

[C.C.]

Just reading the latest rumors just pisses me off. Is it safe to assume that Baltimore is the worst run franchise in MLB? Is it even a question anymore? Edited January 29, 2008 by C.C.

[C.C.]

I know it's pretty popular to bash David Eckstein because of all the undeserved hype he gets, but I wish people sould stop pretending he's Ryan Theriot. Eckstein produces pretty decent offense for a shortstop. If we were to upgrade from Riot to Eckstein it'd be significant.

 

Not sure if it's directed at me, but I bash Eckstein pretty regularly. I do so b/c a) he was a Cardinal, and b) he was terribly overhyped as a Cardinal. He's no Ryan Theriot, that's true. Course, I never said he was. I just said he got some awards (which I only referenced b/c UMFan posted that pic) he didn't deserve. Quite a stretch from one to the other there.

 

I'm not so sure why everybody is bashing Theriot (and basically lumping him in with stiffs like Neifi Perez and Cesar Izturis). I know his second half wasn't good, but there was an awful lot of "The Riot" love in the first half of the season. Is it completely out of the question that the guy could actually improve in his second major league season? I mean, I'd love to get a better shortstop, but let's not forget who came before him (and how happy everyone was when he replaced them). There is still a reasonable chance that this guy pans out to be a "good-enough" everyday shortstop.

 

Small sample.

[JeffH]

There is still a reasonable chance that this guy pans out to be a "good-enough" everyday shortstop.

 

Overall, it's very unlikely that he'll ever qualify as "good". He may be good enough for the Cubs to win the World Series, but that shouldn't preclude them from trying to get a better shortstop.

 

If he's a full-time starter for the next five seasons, there's a fair chance that in one or two of those seasons, he's going to hit in especially good luck, have an elevated BABIP, and post some pretty decent numbers.

 

Nevertheless, his is a spot where we should be actively seeking to improve.

[WilcoFan]

I'm not so sure why everybody is bashing Theriot (and basically lumping him in with stiffs like Neifi Perez and Cesar Izturis). I know his second half wasn't good, but there was an awful lot of "The Riot" love in the first half of the season. Is it completely out of the question that the guy could actually improve in his second major league season? I mean, I'd love to get a better shortstop, but let's not forget who came before him (and how happy everyone was when he replaced them). There is still a reasonable chance that this guy pans out to be a "good-enough" everyday shortstop.

 

I think the Theriot love boiled down to "Cheap and bad beats expensive and bad". Yes, I also believe many overrated him (somewhat) on this board. But I think even the highest expectations for him amounted to no more than "almost good enough."

 

Having a player like Theriot on the bench is a great idea-he's cheap, versatile, and for one day a week, could probably be semi productive. But he's simply not good enough to be a full-time major league shortstop, and the numbers he put up in every month other than July of '07 bear that out.

[anabiono]

There is still a reasonable chance that this guy pans out to be a "good-enough" everyday shortstop.

 

Overall, it's very unlikely that he'll ever qualify as "good". He may be good enough for the Cubs to win the World Series, but that shouldn't preclude them from trying to get a better shortstop.

 

If he's a full-time starter for the next five seasons, there's a fair chance that in one or two of those seasons, he's going to hit in especially good luck, have an elevated BABIP, and post some pretty decent numbers.

 

Nevertheless, his is a spot where we should be actively seeking to improve.

 

you know we aren't going to upgrade before the season starts...christ we can't even "marginally" upgrade at 2nd...

 

i am just praying that the bolded text happens this season...FROM EVERYONE

 

SOTO