Getting sick of Juan Pierre.

[cubweiser03]

I dont understand Pierres OBP. He's doesnt swing at balls outside the zone and hes not a true hack like Neifi. He sees a fair amount of pitches n(even though Pitches per plate appearance isnt a true indication of a good BB rate). He just doesnt swing and miss enough. I know that sounds strange. When he swings he usually puts a bat on the ball and now that he is putting the bat on the ball hes not hitting it square, he has this terrible BA and thus bad OBP.

 

Swing and miss Juan!!!

[Guest]

I dont understand Pierres OBP. He's doesnt swing at balls outside the zone and hes not a true hack like Neifi. He sees a fair amount of pitches n(even though Pitches per plate appearance isnt a true indication of a good BB rate). He just doesnt swing and miss enough. I know that sounds strange. When he swings he usually puts a bat on the ball and now that he is putting the bat on the ball hes not hitting it square, he has this terrible BA and thus bad OBP.

 

Swing and miss Juan!!!

This is at the core of why people say that strikeouts don't matter (even though they matter a lot*). If all you do when you make contact is hit weak ground balls, it doesn't matter if you never strike out. It's far better to take a big rip at a ball and do something with it when you hit it than it is to slap at hit, hit it all the time, but do nothing productive with the contact.

 

 

 

* - Strikeouts do matter a lot. If Dunn could maintain his power while making contact like Pujols or Bonds, he'd be, well, at the level of Pujols and Bonds. His poor contact rate keeps him from being one of the best players in history. His ability to do something productive when he makes contact means that he's one of the most productive players in the game, even though he strikes out a ton.

[Warpticon]

You can't seriously expect the GM to say "Yeah, you know what? Turns out these guys just suck. My bad."

[srbin84]

You can't seriously expect the GM to say "Yeah, you know what? Turns out these guys just suck. My bad."

 

I think anti-Pierites would like to see him traded and replaced with someone else or Pie.

[BigbadB]

Pitchers aren't afraid to throw Pierre strikes. He's not going to hit it very far when he does make contact.

[treebird]

* - Strikeouts do matter a lot. If Dunn could maintain his power while making contact like Pujols or Bonds, he'd be, well, at the level of Pujols and Bonds. His poor contact rate keeps him from being one of the best players in history. His ability to do something productive when he makes contact means that he's one of the most productive players in the game, even though he strikes out a ton.

 

Are strikeouts really special in this regard though? If Albert Pujols could stop flying out so much while maintaining everything else, he'd be the best player in the history of baseball. Dunn can't just stop striking out while maintaining everything else, and Pujols can't just stop flying out while maintaining everything else.

[frostwyrm]

* - Strikeouts do matter a lot. If Dunn could maintain his power while making contact like Pujols or Bonds, he'd be, well, at the level of Pujols and Bonds. His poor contact rate keeps him from being one of the best players in history. His ability to do something productive when he makes contact means that he's one of the most productive players in the game, even though he strikes out a ton.

 

Are strikeouts really special in this regard though? If Albert Pujols could stop flying out so much while maintaining everything else, he'd be the best player in the history of baseball. Dunn can't just stop striking out while maintaining everything else, and Pujols can't just stop flying out while maintaining everything else.

Yeah, Dunn goes deep into counts, which gives him lots of walks but also lots of 2-strike situations which lead to K's. In his case you have to take the good with the bad.

[abuck1220]

i don't know why anyone would ever pitch pierre away. he can't turn on anything inside with the slightest bit of authority, and the only hits he gets are bunts don't the 3rd base line or somewhat sharply hit ground balls past a drawn in 3b. i'd bust him in all day long, and, given the number of 4-3's he's racked up this season, that's what teams are doing.

[hardcorecubfan]

Now, I am on the official "Sick of Pierre" bndwgn

[Guest]

* - Strikeouts do matter a lot. If Dunn could maintain his power while making contact like Pujols or Bonds, he'd be, well, at the level of Pujols and Bonds. His poor contact rate keeps him from being one of the best players in history. His ability to do something productive when he makes contact means that he's one of the most productive players in the game, even though he strikes out a ton.

 

Are strikeouts really special in this regard though? If Albert Pujols could stop flying out so much while maintaining everything else, he'd be the best player in the history of baseball. Dunn can't just stop striking out while maintaining everything else, and Pujols can't just stop flying out while maintaining everything else.

It's not really a valid comparison, though. Let's start a separate thread to discuss it, though, rather than clogging up this one. And I won't have time to do it justice for a while, either.

 

But next time you see me posting a lot, feel free to hit me up again. ;)

[CubfaninCA]

Yep, he's starting to make me sick, but hopefully the fans don't start to booo him ala Patterson. Last thing the Cubs need is Pierre under .200.

[TruffleShuffle]

Yep, he's starting to make me sick, but hopefully the fans don't start to booo him ala Patterson. Last thing the Cubs need is Pierre under .200.

 

He's a major league baseball player. If he can't take booing without going in the tank, he should find another line of work.

[sethuel1]

You can't seriously expect the GM to say "Yeah, you know what? Turns out these guys just suck. My bad."

 

I can't expect it, but I can still want it.

[oldstyle81]

Yep, he's starting to make me sick, but hopefully the fans don't start to booo him ala Patterson. Last thing the Cubs need is Pierre under .200.

 

He has a ring on his finger, if he cant take the heat because he is playing like a girl then he shouldnt be in the big leagues

[CubfaninCA]

Yep, he's starting to make me sick, but hopefully the fans don't start to booo him ala Patterson. Last thing the Cubs need is Pierre under .200.

 

He's a major league baseball player. If he can't take booing without going in the tank, he should find another line of work.

 

cubs fans might as well become impulsive philly fans then. doesn't matter right?

[TruffleShuffle]

Yep, he's starting to make me sick, but hopefully the fans don't start to booo him ala Patterson. Last thing the Cubs need is Pierre under .200.

 

He's a major league baseball player. If he can't take booing without going in the tank, he should find another line of work.

 

cubs fans might as well become impulsive philly fans then. doesn't matter right?

 

Having lived outside Philly for most of my life, I'll let you know that you don't know what you're talking about. Philly fans are very knowledgeable and don't just boo because a guy makes an out or fumbles the ball once, or allows one soft goal. They boo guys for lack of effort or suckitude over a long duration. I think it'd be hard to argue that Pierre hasn't been awful this year.

 

If I suck at my job, I get canned, and I make probably 1% of what Pierre makes. I don't buy this ridiculous notion that we should give players a pat on the back and an encouraging cheer when they crap the bed for thirty games.

[Guest]

Yep, he's starting to make me sick, but hopefully the fans don't start to booo him ala Patterson. Last thing the Cubs need is Pierre under .200.

 

He's a major league baseball player. If he can't take booing without going in the tank, he should find another line of work.

 

cubs fans might as well become impulsive philly fans then. doesn't matter right?

 

Having lived outside Philly for most of my life, I'll let you know that you don't know what you're talking about. Philly fans are very knowledgeable and don't just boo because a guy makes an out or fumbles the ball once, or allows one soft goal. They boo guys for lack of effort or suckitude over a long duration.

"The highlight of my baseball caeer came in Philadelphia's Connie Mack Stadium when I saw a fan fall out of the upper deck. When he got up and walked away, the crowd booed." -- Bob Uecker

 

On a more serious note, Pierre seems to have fallen in love with opposing middle infielders. Time for another spray chart. (Well, not really a spray chart this time. More of a two-dimensional frequency plot. The darker the blue, the more often Pierre hits a ball to that location on the field.)

 

http://www.northsidebaseball.com/UserFiles/Image/BK/HCbin20060507small.jpg

 

Pierre is doing a good job of using the entire field... when a ball he hits actually makes it to the outfield. Unfortunately for the Cubs that doesn't happen very often. The vast, vast majority of his hits are ground balls that fall between the shortstop and the second baseman, almost all of which have been converted to outs so far. (And it's not like he's been really unlucky in the area of ground balls finding holes in the infield, either. His BABIP is .275, right about league average though it is a bit below his career level of .323. His career-worst BABIP, if anyone is interested, is the .293 he put up last year on his way to that impressive .326 OBP.)

[Soul]

So what's the #%$@* deal with this guy? How do you get the most hits in major league baseball over a certain period and suck bones this badly?

[cubweiser03]

Ok so is the stats simply saying hes not finding the holes yet? If his career BABIP is .323 and he is at .275 thats a big change. I dont think its fair to compare Piere's BABIP to the average MLB player. He has much more speed and probably puts the ball on the ground more to shoot it through the infield or leg out an infield hit that the average player cannot do.

 

Do they have stats on what his average is for laying down bunts. That would be interesting.

[imb]

As of today (5-8-06), Juan Pierre has the following ranks as far as qualified Major League centerfielders

 

AVG: .240 (14th out of 17)

OBP: .287 (17th out of 17)

SLG: .314 (15th out of 17)

OPS: .601 (16th out of 17)

 

Add all that up and what do you get? "Prototypical"! Or wait, no wait, uh, you get "Worse than Corey Patterson". (.277/.299/.446/.745)

[Chocolate Milk]

As of today (5-8-06), Juan Pierre has the following ranks as far as qualified Major League centerfielders

 

AVG: .240 (14th out of 17)

OBP: .287 (17th out of 17)

SLG: .314 (15th out of 17)

OPS: .601 (16th out of 17)

 

Add all that up and what do you get? "Prototypical"! Or wait, no wait, uh, you get "Worse than Corey Patterson". (.277/.299/.446/.745)

 

Wow.

[Guest]

Ok so is the stats simply saying hes not finding the holes yet? If his career BABIP is .323 and he is at .275 thats a big change.

It's a large change, certainly, but not unheard of. The average fluctuation in a player's BABIP is about 30 points from year to year. (For players with at least 400 PA in each season.) It's likely that Pierre will inch closer to his career numbers, but he has a long way to go before he can be considered an even modestly productive player.

[Soul]

Unbelievable numbers.

 

There wasn't a person on here, myself included, who didn't think Pierre was at least an upgrade over CPatt. Now look.

[YearofDaCubs]

With his numbers, I don't think Pierre will be around next year.

[beersoakedivy]

Unbelievable numbers.

 

There wasn't a person on here, myself included, who didn't think Pierre was at least an upgrade over CPatt. Now look.

 

CUBS luck....I at a loss for words with this organizations luck and mismanagement.