Prior delayed again

[Jon]

Pretending what? There's really nothing to go on and that this is some Cubs conspiracy or that Hendry somehow gets his kicks by lying to the media?

 

Pretending that the whole "we have no idea when he'll be ready to pitch, but it'll definitely be by opening day, probably, maybe" spring training ritual doesn't necessarily mean anything.

 

It did mean something. It means Prior wasn't 100%. Not that he wasn't a little behind, or a little sick. It meant he wasn't 100%. That's clear.

Do you mean not 100% as in injured? According to Carroll and the Cubs, it was more than just a little sick and everyone knew he was behind, and not just a little bit.

 

If you didn't believe them about him being ready to pitch in Cinci (as I posted in another thread, I didn't think that was going to happen, either), why listen? It's a lot easier and more accurate to just evaluate what Prior actually does and where they see him short term.

 

But that's not really lying, either. The media asks for a timeline, they give their best guess. I don't think they intend it to be taken as a concrete projection and it definitely shouldn't be taken to be as such.

[wastra]

There's really no way to defend the Cubs on this. I think they've known that there was a problem with Prior, they thought he'd work through it, and they've been holding him back a bit because of it. Word leaked out, they denied it, and now they've likely been burned.

 

I'd like to defend them, but I really can't. They've been repeatedly dishonest and less than forthright about injuries in the past.

 

That's pretty much the reality of the situation. As a Cub fan, it's not a whole lot of fun to be on the other end of the lies. I don't think it's too much to expect honesty for the money we give to this franchise.

 

If they want to protect injured players' rights to privacy, I'm fine with that. Make a blanket policy statement: We will not discuss player health unless league rules dictate we must. Don't come out on the radio & in the newspapers with blatant lies: "He's fine" "There's no injury, he's just building strength" yada yada yada.

 

Just report the truth, or state it is not club policy to disclose. There's no excuse for lies, over & over. Other teams don't do this. Pretty much it's only the Cubs who have institutionalized lying about player health.

 

Or, of course, there is the possibility that he really wasn't hurt and they were just using a gradual buildup program like Rotschild had been saying he would do this year since last ST.

But I guess since you have decided that them lying is the "reality of the situation" it is since you have so much proof that he was really injured.

I love conspiracy theories but this one makes no sense because no one involved in the so called conspiracy had anything to gain from a cover up.

 

I'm not sure they have nothing to gain. Keeping injuries quiet prior to selling tickets is a good reason, even if Wrigley is usually a good bet to sell out. Keeping additional heat off of a management which has been racked with questions regarding its forthrightness and early identification of injuries is certainly another advantage.

 

The Chicago Cub management over the last 3 years or so has been inept with every aspect of injuries to its players. Keeping that discussion out of the papers is beneficial to everyone involved. For anyone to even suggest that the Cubs have been competent in the area of injuries is ridiculous.

 

I don't understand the argument. In order to avoid the "heat" regarding early identification of injuries and to keep that discussion out of the papers you are accusing them of supposedly conspiring in holding back on reporting the early identification of an injury and in the process generating an enormous amount of discussion about that in the papers? How do they gain from that?

 

A lot of it has to do with money.

 

THey don't want people not buying tickets (season or otherwise) or TV stations dropping games if they know some AAA callup is pitching instead of Mark Prior.

 

Fan happiness is important to baseball franchises. The marketing firm I worked for years ago handled marketing for the Louisville Riverbats (now just the Louisville "Bats"), AAA Cincy franchise. We used to help write and submit PR releases for them, and their PR department used to tell me that they'd always delay possible injuries to marquee players because there were always certain segments of fans who came to the park because of that one player- or becuase they wanted to see a certain pitching matchup. By waiting until the last moment to release such news, he used to say that "they'd never get pre-empted by the cow auctions" on the radio, lol. (An exagerration, since they had a radio contract, but you get the point.)

[Jon]

Just a heads up to all Cub fans who thought that there was nothing to worry about.....

 

Next spring, if a pitcher does not throw off a mound you can safely assume two things:

 

1. He's rehabbing

2. He's injured

 

This is not a conspiracy theory or a "sky is falling" attitude. It's called being realistic and logical.

Logical by categorizing future events without any factual information or even speculation?

 

And since you bumped up the BP thread while referencing only half of what he reported, do you care to comment on the other half?

[Jon]

A lot of it has to do with money.

 

THey don't want people not buying tickets (season or otherwise) or TV stations dropping games if they know some AAA callup is pitching instead of Mark Prior.

 

Fan happiness is important to baseball franchises. The marketing firm I worked for years ago handled marketing for the Louisville Riverbats (now just the Louisville "Bats"), AAA Cincy franchise. We used to help write and submit PR releases for them, and their PR department used to tell me that they'd always delay possible injuries to marquee players because there were always certain segments of fans who came to the park because of that one player- or becuase they wanted to see a certain pitching matchup. By waiting until the last moment to release such news, he used to say that "they'd never get pre-empted by the cow auctions" on the radio, lol. (An exagerration, since they had a radio contract, but you get the point.)

TV stations don't drop Cubs games. Maybe ESPN wouldn't pick up a single game because they were uncompetitive later in the season, but that's about it. The WGN/CSNC contract is all set and even if Prior was going to be out the entire season, Fox and ESPN wouldn't really treat the team that much differently.

 

 

As I've posted before, I really can't disagree more about the tickets. If anything, they'd be more concerned about keeping him healthy and not deny him treatment and rehab during spring training in the hopes of having him healthy for the last two thirds of the season and helping to keep the team in contention...which would really help to sell the remaining 300,000 or so tickets.

[brinoch]

There's really no way to defend the Cubs on this. I think they've known that there was a problem with Prior, they thought he'd work through it, and they've been holding him back a bit because of it. Word leaked out, they denied it, and now they've likely been burned.

 

I'd like to defend them, but I really can't. They've been repeatedly dishonest and less than forthright about injuries in the past.

 

That's pretty much the reality of the situation. As a Cub fan, it's not a whole lot of fun to be on the other end of the lies. I don't think it's too much to expect honesty for the money we give to this franchise.

 

If they want to protect injured players' rights to privacy, I'm fine with that. Make a blanket policy statement: We will not discuss player health unless league rules dictate we must. Don't come out on the radio & in the newspapers with blatant lies: "He's fine" "There's no injury, he's just building strength" yada yada yada.

 

Just report the truth, or state it is not club policy to disclose. There's no excuse for lies, over & over. Other teams don't do this. Pretty much it's only the Cubs who have institutionalized lying about player health.

 

Or, of course, there is the possibility that he really wasn't hurt and they were just using a gradual buildup program like Rotschild had been saying he would do this year since last ST.

But I guess since you have decided that them lying is the "reality of the situation" it is since you have so much proof that he was really injured.

I love conspiracy theories but this one makes no sense because no one involved in the so called conspiracy had anything to gain from a cover up.

 

So, then, why do the Cubs continually get things wrong? Remember last summer when Wood was pitching out of the bullpen, but he couldn't injure it further and it wouldn't affect the start of this season? Well, look at what happened, his surgery was delayed, and now Wood won't be ready for the start of the season -- exactly what was predicted. How about Cedeno's call up in July? Hendry said that he wasn't called up to sit on the bench, yet that's exactly what he did. What about the Prior achilles/elbow saga?

 

The fact is that the Cubs have zero credibility when it comes to injuries and timelines. They have been consistenly deceptive. And I don't really understand why, either. I agree that they have nothing to gain by being deceptive. Perhaps they aren't deceptive. Maybe they are honestly mistaken. A lot. But I don't buy it anymore.

 

I'm a PR guy. Trust me, I know how to deal with the media; I've been working with the press on a daily basis since 2000. One of the most important lessons any PR person needs to learn is always be honest and if you don't know, just say you don't know. The Cubs, for whatever reason, haven't managed these kinds of situations well.

[Cubfanintheknow]

I'm having a hard time believing this "The Cubs lied about Prior's injury to sell more tickets" theory. Here's a quote from Jim Hendry in Wednesday's Chicago Tribune:

 

"Obviously, it'll be perceived any way people want t perceive it, but there's no advantage to holding back until Marth 14 and then discussing a problem we knew about earlier."

 

Does anyone honestly believe the Cubs would wait until spring training is halfway over to finally seek medical treatment just to sell more tickets? Wouldn't they stand to gain more if they had sought treatment earlier if indeed Prior did need medical treatment earlier?

 

For some reason, too many people want to read too much into every move the Cubs make.

[jjgman21]

not sure if this has been covered here yet or not, but doesn't Priors deal show this has not been some elaborate scheme to lie about or cover up an injury.

 

January 27, 2006

 

Associated Press

 

CHICAGO -- Mark Prior and the Chicago Cubs agreed Friday to a $3.65 million, one-year contract, $900,000 more than the salary he would have earned under the contract he voided in November.

 

He had asked for $4 million in arbitration and had been offered $3.3 million.

 

Prior's deal with Chicago includes bonuses for finishing high in voting for MVP and Cy Young, winning a Gold Glove or Silver Slugger and making the All-Star team.

 

does the conspiracy run so deep that they thought ahead enough to work in incentives, just to give the appearance that Prior would actually have a chance to win those awards knowing full well he doesn't because he was injured?

 

and if management is so money grabbing, wouldn't they have used their knowledge of the situation to lowball Prior?

 

that deal is not the deal two parties make when one or both knows the player is injured.

[abuck1220]

fergie joins in on criticizing wood and prior.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-060315mitchell,1,4161254.column?coll=cs-cubs-utility

 

why is it that these people act as though wood and prior are the guys who decide what type of throwing routine they're on?

[imb]

id like to kick fergie jenkins in his old, wrinkly face.

 

Pitching is a freakshow fergie, some people get hurt and some dont. Because Prior and Wood got hurt doesnt mean that they dont "spend enough time talking to Maddux" it means that despite all the talent in the world, maybe their bodies cant handle the stress.

 

God I hate all this "it was better in the old days" garbage that these old farts spew out constantly.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

"A lot of the pitchers don't spend enough time at Double A and Triple A, so their arm can't take that pressure," Jenkins said. "You have to start working out in January and February to get your body back to what it's used to doing. If you lay off two or three months, you're going to get some atrophy and your body is not equipped to be whipped into top shape in a week or two weeks."

 

So, Prior and Wood wouldn't get hurt if they weren't sitting naked in a bean bag chair eating cheetos during the offseason.

[wolf stansson]

"It's hard to say. Honestly, you can guess that they're not going to be successful, but you could be wrong too," Jenkins said in a phone interview from his Arizona home. "From my experience, if you don't use what you have, you're going to lose it. And you know what that means.

 

"If you don't throw, you're going to be on the DL and probably pitch just 65 or 70 innings and not help your ballclub, win half a dozen ballgames or less. That's not helping your ballclub when they're counting on you."

So the literally hundreds of other starting pitchers around the world who don't consistently get injured even though they have very similar throwing regimens remain healthy because of what? Lucky? Or do the all take the time to talk to the other wily veteran on their staff's? It has nothing to do with physics and biology?

 

This is just as dumb as blaming Dusty. A normal 23 year old pitcher should be able to rebound from 2003's workload without recurring complications.

[A New Era]

"A lot of the pitchers don't spend enough time at Double A and Triple A, so their arm can't take that pressure," Jenkins said. "You have to start working out in January and February to get your body back to what it's used to doing. If you lay off two or three months, you're going to get some atrophy and your body is not equipped to be whipped into top shape in a week or two weeks."

 

So, Prior and Wood wouldn't get hurt if they weren't sitting naked in a bean bag chair eating cheetos during the offseason.

 

No because they would have more body fat, and you can't tear fat. Or atleast it is very hard to. Remember that one old fat guy who picthed for the cubs and said that a few years back? :lol:

[Bgbird68]

Just a heads up to all Cub fans who thought that there was nothing to worry about.....

 

Next spring, if a pitcher does not throw off a mound you can safely assume two things:

 

1. He's rehabbing

2. He's injured

 

This is not a conspiracy theory or a "sky is falling" attitude. It's called being realistic and logical.

Logical by categorizing future events without any factual information or even speculation?

 

And since you bumped up the BP thread while referencing only half of what he reported, do you care to comment on the other half?

 

I would say it's a fact that if a pitcher is healthy, he pitches. He doesn't throw simulated games or towel tosses or long tosses unless he's rehabbing or injured. That's not speculating. It's taking the info given and making a logical conclusion, no matter what the Cubs say regarding said pitchers health. Can you name another team's healthy ace that is still throwing on the side this spring or still long tossing or throwing a towel? Climbing up on the mound and pitching shouldn't be a real battle.......if the pitcher is healthy. It doesn't take a crystal ball to see that.

 

As far as the Wood comments , that's a non-issue to me. Prior is who I'm worried about. Wood is a project in my book. He may make it back to the rotation in May, after the Cubs said last year he'll be ready for opening day, but it's a pretty good bet he'll be injured at some other point.

 

That's what so maddening about not signing another starting pitcher. You cannot continue to count on the health of these two pitchers.

[chicago_bradley]

does anyone on here know when prior's rotator cuff status will be reported, or does anyone on here have anyway to find out before it is reported publically. Although i have a feeling that the report will be minor irritation and will begin pitching program in 2 weeks.

[CubinNY]

does anyone on here know when prior's rotator cuff status will be reported, or does anyone on here have anyway to find out before it is reported publically. Although i have a feeling that the report will be minor irritation and will begin pitching program in 2 weeks.

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

Bruce Miles posts here occasionally and thankfully. I am hoping once he gets word he will pass it along to us.

 

[chicago_bradley]

thanks. I usually dont like registering and posting on forums, especially for the cubs because of the trolling and stupid people that goes on the cubs.com message board and espn.com/cubs board. But it seems this forum is a better than that.

[CubinNY]

thanks. I usually dont like registering and posting on forums, especially for the cubs because of the trolling and stupid people that goes on the cubs.com message board and espn.com/cubs board. But it seems this forum is a better than that.

 

The moderators here keep trolling to a minimum and most of the people adhear to the conventions of the forum (attack the post not the poster). There are many knowldeable people that post here. It is a great place.

 

One thing, if you have a strong opinon be ready to back it up becuase someone wil probably disagree.

 

I agree with you that they will probably say minor inflamation of... and they will put him on some sort of schedule with no time table.

 

This whole saga just reeks.

[CUBZ99]

does anyone on here know when prior's rotator cuff status will be reported, or does anyone on here have anyway to find out before it is reported publically. Although i have a feeling that the report will be minor irritation and will begin pitching program in 2 weeks.

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

Bruce Miles posts here occasionally and thankfully. I am hoping once he gets word he will pass it along to us.

 

 

I wonder how Bruce feels about the Cubs telling the beat reporters that Prior was fine, etc.

[Soul]

Healthy pitchers pitch. Those who are throwing with towels instead of pitching, or engaged in other rehab-type activites *instead* of pitching, are injured.

 

That's just simple logic.

[Shawon12]

When do we find out the bad news???

[fulldeck]

ESPN1000 is now saying that Prior will have an MRI. Is that different than what was scheduled yesterday?

[CubinNY]

ESPN1000 is now saying that Prior will have an MRI. Is that different than what was scheduled yesterday?

 

I have no idea. Wouldn't they have done the MRI yeserday?

 

ugh!

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

ESPN1000 is now saying that Prior will have an MRI. Is that different than what was scheduled yesterday?

 

I have no idea. Wouldn't they have done the MRI yeserday?

 

ugh!

 

Maybe they were waiting for swelling (or irritation) to go down. It could just be someone deciding to be cautious for once.

[gflore34]

Healthy pitchers pitch. Those who are throwing with towels instead of pitching, or engaged in other rehab-type activites *instead* of pitching, are injured.

 

That's just simple logic.

 

Bingo!! It was just a matter of time before whatever was ailing Prior was revealed. Did Cubs management really think they fooling anyone with their constant stream of "he's (Prior) healthy we're just taking it slowly" rhetoric?

 

If I'm Jim Hendry I'd go into next offseason with the premise that Prior, because of injury history, is a non-factor. I'd build a rotation without him or Wood for that matter. In fact, after this season I believe Wood is done as Cub, unless he's willing to take a tremendous paycut with an incentive laden contract.

[chicago_bradley]

the whole MRI was supposed be done yesterday to be completely sure there isn't a tear in his rotator cuff as opposed to irritation.