Prior delayed again

[Transmogrified Tiger]

That would hold more weight if the Cubs' ticket success was linked to them winning, but they sell the tickets regardless of the team's prospects for the year.

 

I disagree with this argument 100%. What did the Cubs draw pre-98? And what was their highest selling year? '04, when playoff expectations were at a peak.

 

The Cubs haven't gone more than 2 years since '98 without fielding a winning or playoff team (98, 01, 03, 04). A few more years like last year - maybe just one or two more - and all of a sudden it mightn't be so hard to get Wrigley tix again. There's often a few years lag between the onset of losing and an associated drop in attendance (see Chicago Blackhawks - remember the roar?).

 

I'm not saying the Cubs must have known Prior was hurt before tix went on sale. But it's certainly not implausible.

 

But we aren't talking about the future ticket sales, we're talking about this year. Whether Prior was hurt or not, the Cubs were going to sell tickets, lots and lots of them.

 

Will Carroll's source on Prior's shoulder problem also tipped him off about the Achilles, so it's hard to believe this was just a lucky guess on Carroll's part. You can argue about why the Cubs lie, but it's plain that they do in fact lie.

 

I was only responding to the people who claimed the Cubs did this as some sort of scam to sell more tickets.

[treebird]

the a's lie about injuries too, but then they don't usually make guys keep pitching after they find our theyre hurt

 

EVERYONE ABOARD THE A'S-TRAIN

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Miles weighs in:

 

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sportsstory.asp?id=167074

[UK1679666180]

Miles weighs in:

 

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sportsstory.asp?id=167074

 

Bad luck isn't why these types of injuries occur. The trauma injuries with Giles as well as the liner off the elbow=bad luck.

 

Wood's many injuries as well as the previous elbow/heel problems and now shoulder problem of Prior happen for a reason, failing to find out where the breakdown occured will only lead to further breakdowns as well as chalking it up to bad luck.

[stitchface]

Miles weighs in:

 

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sportsstory.asp?id=167074

 

Bad luck isn't why these types of injuries occur. The trauma injuries with Giles as well as the liner off the elbow=bad luck.

 

Wood's many injuries as well as the previous elbow/heel problems and now shoulder problem of Prior happen for a reason, failing to find out where the breakdown occured will only lead to further breakdowns as well as chalking it up to bad luck.

 

2003

[Soul]

Well, Prior was hurt all along, just as I suspected.

 

The act has gotten old. Next time we see a pitcher doing something silly like throwing simulated games in ST (which is an oxymoron since all games in ST are simulated) I hope we can just jump past the B.S. and call an injured pitcher an injured pitcher.

[UK1679666180]

2003

 

The Cubs would never equate how they were run into the ground in '03 to their recent injury problems. They appear to be content with "injuries happen".

 

Some teams successfully allocate more time to injury prevention (pre-hab) than others.

[bc2k]

That would hold more weight if the Cubs' ticket success was linked to them winning, but they sell the tickets regardless of the team's prospects for the year.

 

I disagree with this argument 100%. What did the Cubs draw pre-98? And what was their highest selling year? '04, when playoff expectations were at a peak.

 

The Cubs haven't gone more than 2 years since '98 without fielding a winning or playoff team (98, 01, 03, 04). A few more years like last year - maybe just one or two more - and all of a sudden it mightn't be so hard to get Wrigley tix again. There's often a few years lag between the onset of losing and an associated drop in attendance (see Chicago Blackhawks - remember the roar?).

 

I'm not saying the Cubs must have known Prior was hurt before tix went on sale. But it's certainly not implausible.

 

But we aren't talking about the future ticket sales, we're talking about this year. Whether Prior was hurt or not, the Cubs were going to sell tickets, lots and lots of them.

 

Will Carroll's source on Prior's shoulder problem also tipped him off about the Achilles, so it's hard to believe this was just a lucky guess on Carroll's part. You can argue about why the Cubs lie, but it's plain that they do in fact lie.

 

That's a really good point.

[Blueheart05]

That would hold more weight if the Cubs' ticket success was linked to them winning, but they sell the tickets regardless of the team's prospects for the year.

 

I disagree with this argument 100%. What did the Cubs draw pre-98? And what was their highest selling year? '04, when playoff expectations were at a peak.

 

The Cubs haven't gone more than 2 years since '98 without fielding a winning or playoff team (98, 01, 03, 04). A few more years like last year - maybe just one or two more - and all of a sudden it mightn't be so hard to get Wrigley tix again. There's often a few years lag between the onset of losing and an associated drop in attendance (see Chicago Blackhawks - remember the roar?).

 

I'm not saying the Cubs must have known Prior was hurt before tix went on sale. But it's certainly not implausible.

 

But we aren't talking about the future ticket sales, we're talking about this year. Whether Prior was hurt or not, the Cubs were going to sell tickets, lots and lots of them.

 

Will Carroll's source on Prior's shoulder problem also tipped him off about the Achilles, so it's hard to believe this was just a lucky guess on Carroll's part. You can argue about why the Cubs lie, but it's plain that they do in fact lie.

 

He may be injured but this doesn't prove that the team lied. What did the Cubs gain by waiting if they knew Prior was injured 2-3 weeks ago? Absolutely nothing. Cubs tickets went on sale Feb 24 (almost 3 weeks ago). If ensuring ticket sales was the goal, the Cubs could have dropped this bomb a week after they broke the one day ticket sales record.

 

Carroll's story broke on 2/20 yet on 2/18 Prior is quoted as saying he was feeling good:

 

"I'm throwing," Prior said. "I feel good throwing. I'm just behind right now. That's why I haven't been on the bump. There's no need to get on the bump right now."

 

On 2/21 Prior responded to the Carroll rumor:

 

"My body feels good and my arm felt good throwing [Monday]," he said. "I'm getting closer. It's a process to get ready for the season. It's not just show up and go to work. I feel good, my body feels good. I don't feel 'sick or weak.' I don't tan well."

 

Maybe if Prior could get a little color in his face, it would squelch such reports as the one on the "Baseball Prospectus" Web site that he's behind the other pitchers because he's "sick and weak."

 

"Everybody wants to find something wrong," Prior said of the latest rumor. "That's just life. You deal with it. I'm not going to sit here and defend or validate anything. There have been a lot of rumors in my career. There's really not much I can say about it. That's people's opinions.

 

The possibility that Prior may have been withholding information from the team, about a potential injury, is the most plausible way to validate Carroll's claims. Perhaps he was experiencing discomfort that he expected to go away until finally he felt like he needed to address it. Afterall, Carroll said it was someone close to Prior that tipped it off. Prior's quote on 2/23 is a little suspicious. Instead of continuing to deny that anyone close to him could make claims about an injury he admitted to being "unnerved" that someone within his inner circle might leak the info...

 

The author of the latest rumor credited a source as "someone who knows what Prior does in the offseason." Does that mean there's a spy in Prior's circle of friends?

 

"I'd be lying if I didn't say it was unnerving -- unnerving from the standpoint of somebody who knows me who would give that kind of information," he said.

 

Why would he be unnerved if it's not true? If Prior was in fact injured when he came to camp he kept it to himself.

[abuck1220]

Although Hendry says he’s not so sure bad luck isn’t haunting the Cubs, Baker remained steadfast that the Cubs aren’t cursed.

 

“Nope,” Baker said. “Still. I refuse to believe in that.”

 

in a way the cubs are cursed...with people that apparently don't know how to keep pitchers healthy.

[YearofDaCubs]

Miles weighs in:

 

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sportsstory.asp?id=167074

Sounds like the injury to Prior could be serious. No wonder Hendry was so willing to trade him for Tejada and no wonder the Orioles declined the offer. I'm getting sick of our injury prone players. It's to the point where it might be time to cut bait with these guys, and yes I do believe 2003 has a lot to do with the injuries to Wood and Prior.

[Geech]

Why would he be unnerved if it's not true?

 

A friend spreading false injury rumors would be pretty unnerving.

 

Either way, your case is pretty speculative. It seems more plausible that the team was less than forthcoming, especially in light of the very slow pace the Cubs took with him.

[USSoccer]

Random thoughts:

 

So at this point, you assume Prior will be on a schedule similar to Wood's, right? Do you decide that you've waited long enough for Guzman, and just let him be the 5th starter, or do you go with a 4 man of Z, Maddux, Williams and Rusch until Miller, Wood or Prior are back? After all, Guzman should have been with us late 2003. It's now 2006.

 

BTW, without Wood, Prior and Miller, our rotation is bad. Makes you wish our offense was top 5. Also makes me wish they would have at least looked at Jeff Weaver this past winter on a 1 yr deal.

 

If Prior has an issue with pain tolerance, and overreacts to semi-normal discomfort it could explain why Hendry might have considered dealing him this winter, public comments to the contrary.

 

 

Finally, the Cubs need to begin addressing the plethora of pitching injuries at all levels of the system. I know injuries happen, but every single high ceiling/key pitcher from Guzman to Wood has missed signifigant time in the past 5 years, Z being the exception. What are they doing wrong? No focus on prehab? Bad trainers? Bad scouting? Irresponsible managing leading to idiotically high pitch counts? A combination of all of these and bad luck? Sooner or later they need to look at this in a non old school, traditional baseball way.

[Neuby]

I really really hope the Chicago media takes the Cubs organaztion to task for not being forth coming with information this has gotten out of hand. Does this hurt Jim Hendrys ability to trade with other teams did he tell the Orioles Prior had lingering injury problems? I think not.

[UMFan83]

Anyone want to start a pool for when Angel Guzman completes the trifecta?

[Blueheart05]

Why would he be unnerved if it's not true?

 

A friend spreading false injury rumors would be pretty unnerving.

 

Either way, your case is pretty speculative. It seems more plausible that the team was less than forthcoming, especially in light of the very slow pace the Cubs took with him.

 

The team would have more reason to shut him down. I don't know how people can continue to blame the team when the player is echoing their sentiments (if not defending them). BTW,everyone here is speculating.

[USSoccer]

Anyone want to start a pool for when Angel Guzman completes the trifecta?

 

At this point, even though it won't be a popular sentiment here I'd throw Guzman out there in the rotation right away when we break camp. If he gets hurt, he gets hurt, but while he's healthy he's a better option than Hill or Rusch, and our rotation will need the help.

 

Pitch count him. We'll carry 12 pitchers anyway, and we have a nice, expensive bullpen. Get what you can out of him, because at worst you end up with what you've gotten from him the past 3 seasons, and at best he lives up to his billing. Or at least he helps keep you afloat until May when one of Wood, Miller or Prior should be back.

[Jon]

Why would he be unnerved if it's not true?

 

A friend spreading false injury rumors would be pretty unnerving.

 

Either way, your case is pretty speculative. It seems more plausible that the team was less than forthcoming, especially in light of the very slow pace the Cubs took with him.

It's all speculative, though, especially when they had seemingly no reason to push Prior if they knew he was injured (as has been claimed in this thread) and lying about an injury was risking an awful lot with his health.

[Soul]

Why would he be unnerved if it's not true?

 

A friend spreading false injury rumors would be pretty unnerving.

 

Either way, your case is pretty speculative. It seems more plausible that the team was less than forthcoming, especially in light of the very slow pace the Cubs took with him.

 

The team would have more reason to shut him down. I don't know how people can continue to blame the team when the player is echoing their sentiments (if not defending them). BTW,everyone here is speculating.

 

It might be speculation, but it's beyond a reasonable doubt type speculation given the track record of lies.

 

BTW, they did shut Prior down. That's why he was throwing simulated-simulated games with a towel. Sorry, I don't know what else to call a "simulated" game that takes place among other simulated spring training games. Sub-simulated games? Penultimate simu-games? :?

[Outshined_One]

Mark Prior and Kerry Wood used to have pillow fort fights, but now they can have two new playmates with Wade Miller and Angel Guzman!

[frostwyrm]

I don't think Prior hid this from the team because the team has been treating him a pitcher recovering from an injury.

[bc2k]

Just because we cannot pinpoint the motivation for the Cubs organization to hide and lie about Prior's injury, doesn't mean the organization didn't hide and lie this injury.

 

Recent data appears to show that the Cubs lied and hid Prior's injury. Here is what I believe is the most telling data to support this claim:

 

1. Prior had a different throwing program than every other healthy pitcher in camp this year and in years' past.

 

2. Will Carroll trusted his source enough to publish Prior's injury before confirmation from the Cubs camp. His credibility is good and he received his injury news from a previously accurate source.

 

Maybe the motivation for not reporting this injury earlier was because Hendry couldn't retain honesty as a GM if the day pitchers and catchers report, it's announced that Prior is injured after being shopped all offseason.

 

That's just speculation though, and whether true or false, doesn't change the fact that the Cubs lied and hid Mark Prior's injury.

[Mizzou]

To bring back the ticket discussion from earlier...

 

With Dugout Box and Bullpen Box seats going on sale tomorrow, you'd think that the Cubs would wait til after those sold like crazy to announce the injury news, not the night before... IF ticket sales and Prior's health were ever in the same conversation.

[bc2k]

Why would he be unnerved if it's not true?

 

A friend spreading false injury rumors would be pretty unnerving.

 

Either way, your case is pretty speculative. It seems more plausible that the team was less than forthcoming, especially in light of the very slow pace the Cubs took with him.

 

It's all speculative, though, especially when they had seemingly no reason to push Prior if they knew he was injured (as has been claimed in this thread) and lying about an injury was risking an awful lot with his health.

 

Push Prior? They have done nothing but hold him back all ST.

 

Perhaps they were hoping this injury would heal in the 6 weeks before the season so they wouldn't have to go public with it. Once it became worse than they had expected and hoped, they had to send Prior to a specialist and make that info public.

[Blueheart05]

Why would he be unnerved if it's not true?

 

A friend spreading false injury rumors would be pretty unnerving.

 

Either way, your case is pretty speculative. It seems more plausible that the team was less than forthcoming, especially in light of the very slow pace the Cubs took with him.

 

The team would have more reason to shut him down. I don't know how people can continue to blame the team when the player is echoing their sentiments (if not defending them). BTW,everyone here is speculating.

 

It might be speculation, but it's beyond a reasonable doubt type speculation given the track record of lies.

 

BTW, they did shut Prior down. That's why he was throwing simulated-simulated games with a towel. Sorry, I don't know what else to call a "simulated" game that takes place among other simulated spring training games. Sub-simulated games? Penultimate simu-games? :?

 

Towel drills are a common arm strength building technique. The Cubs had not shut him down before now. He was always pitching to build strength.

 

If we're to believe that there were lies why aren't we willing to believe that Prior is at the center? Afterall, he had been saying all along that he was fine. If we are to believe that the team has a hidden agenda (ticket sales for instance) for not making this issue public earlier then I'd like to know what Prior's motivation is for going along with the ruse? He would be jeopardizing his future.

 

Like I said, he probably had some level of discomfort initially but ignored it figuring it was all apart of the normal rigors of ST. I think today's revelation was Prior feeling like the pain was bad enough to have a doctor checkit out.